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KENGEN RESULTS
Kerabu901
#31 Posted : Wednesday, March 03, 2010 2:50:35 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/15/2007
Posts: 3
Granted. Nuclear is expensive - but far cheaper per MWH than any of Kengen's capital escapades - and somehow dreamy. The cost of Nuclear is around US$5 billion per 8750 MW plant if we go by the latest Nuclear Deal (UAE - Korea Electric) at 20.47 billion for 4 plants with 35,000 per the below link:

http://online.wsj.com/ar...574621653002992302.html

And we only need like 10,000 so may even get a cheaper plant if need be). And we have to look ahead. Nuclear is perpetual. Hydro -in Kenya- is seasonal, unreliable, frustrating and expensive and has DIRE environmental implications. Generally a great impendiment to development as we know it.

So i dare suggest it is high time we as a Nation stopped having 20 year visions (vision 2030) if we supporting strategies are limited to 3 year sub-plans (Kengens 3000 MW targets). It is a non workable mismatch.

Old Men Dream, Young Men see Visions......
mukiha
#32 Posted : Friday, March 05, 2010 4:55:15 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
mkonomtupu wrote:
Mukiha, cost per kW that only kicks in after you have set up the plant in the first place. Here are some solid facts the Olkiluoto plant in Finland expected to generate 1600MW has an overall project cost of 3.2 billion Euros. Nuclear power stations are extremely expensive to build.
Nuclear physics is not complicated but running a nuclear power plant is complicated business. Enough of the pipe dreams let's discuss Kengen


NO, NO, NO!

Running a nuclear power station is NOT complicated! You only need guys with diplomas, not PhDs. The PhDs are only required for designing the plant... actually, giving the technical specs to the contractors and inspecting the progress.

On the cost, how much do you think it will cost to put up a 1,600MW conventional plant?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mkonomtupu
#33 Posted : Friday, March 05, 2010 5:59:10 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Quite interesting. Kerabu i quite agree with you on our dreams(vision 2030) which we end up calling visions. I also find Kengen expansion unambitious but I still find it the best and only listed company that is investing in the lucrative power sector and which can access long term loans at 2%-12.5% interest and can build on fast track thermal and geothermal plants. This is a long term stock it's like buying EABL in the 1980's

Mukiha, we get diploma guys to run the plant and end up with some guy in Narok selling the fuel or worse Homer Simpson. For now the financially viable plants is thermal and geothermal and wind. Just look at the Philippines Bataan nuclear power plant constructed by president marcos at a cost of 2.3 billion dollars and completed in 1984 but it has never produced a watt of electricity before it was condemned by international inspectors now the taxpayers there pay for a white elephant.
mukiha
#34 Posted : Friday, March 05, 2010 7:56:12 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
mkonomtupu wrote:
...Mukiha, we get diploma guys to run the plant and end up with some guy in Narok selling the fuel or worse Homer Simpson. For now the financially viable plants is thermal and geothermal and wind. Just look at the Philippines Bataan nuclear power plant constructed by president marcos at a cost of 2.3 billion dollars and completed in 1984 but it has never produced a watt of electricity before it was condemned by international inspectors now the taxpayers there pay for a white elephant.


The example you give supports my case. The philippinos probably used Diplomates to design the plant. I said we use PhDs, and we have many of the specialising in nuclear physics
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
DrStrom
#35 Posted : Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:27:39 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 3/7/2010
Posts: 1
Hi Guys,

sorry to say that, but to integrate a nuklear plant in that shady distribution grid here in Kenya, it will burn out every substation! Look at your distribution grid here in nairobi.By roaming around here, i find pole transformer not protected by a fuse! What you think, what is happen you have extent the amount of produced MW with a Nukeplant and your pole transformer has an internal fault! There is than an explosion and maybe about the short circuit more pole transformers are scrap than. Go out in the night with open eyes and you find Transformers and parts of your distribution grid are glowing! When you extent your power output to a grid...that grid must be capable to handle the power! To integrate one Power plant that double your generated MW you also need to invest in your grid! And sorry your Distribution is not standard ... it is not professional build, becomes no maintenance...look how many trees grow in the over head lines (powerloss..what the customers has to pay) no separation in section..what means by one fault a big area is affected ( blackout).

And at least: a nuke plant produce waste material ...where you put this waste? You are not even able to handle your household and industrial waste! Now you get to big for one's boots ...or! Start small...start by the distribution up grade this, build partitions, so that is not all affected by one fault...in first world countries there build the Grid like N+1 that means to everything is one in reserve! make maintenance...that reduce power loss and make the grid staple.
sparkly
#36 Posted : Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:26:22 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
@DrStorm good use of the queen's language. Hilarious... Lol
Life is short. Live passionately.
mukiha
#37 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 5:47:59 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@DrStorm: A simple nuclear power lesson will help. A nuclear reactor's job is to produce heat. This heat boils water to generate steam. The steam turns a turbine...from there the rest of the system is identical to a hydro, or diesel or coal, or whatever power plant. There is nothing so special about it!! Electricity is electricity is electricity!!

Secondly; the power that goes into the grid is determined by the DEMAND, not the production! So you can put up a 10,000MW power station but if the demand is 1,000MW then only 1,000MW will go into the grid.

Finally; did you know that the top 4 largest power stations in the world are all hydro? In fact, the largest nuclear plant comes in at no 5.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
VituVingiSana
#38 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 6:28:09 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,361
Location: Nairobi
Nuclear has a major advantage over hydro... They can be built in multiple areas/regions whereas hydro needs huge amounts of water!

Kenya has only 2 'major' rivers & by international standards, these are small. The Tana & Athi are not enough large enough for Kenya's needs...

Of course, as I have argued before... Kenya has the Rift Valley & it's immense geothermal potential...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mozenrat
#39 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 6:36:22 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
@Mukiha..

I cannot believe you afforded Strom's condescending tone a response. How were you able to understand what he wrote?
dave.kim
#40 Posted : Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:40:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/25/2010
Posts: 176
the deal wrote:
@ muganda hehehe i cant help it but laugh...unless sparkly is looking @ 5 years from now...it looks like kengen is still in the planning phase...i will by kengen say @ 8 bob whereas i will buy kplc anytime provided i have the cash.

@deal and it came to be smile But their balance sheet still isn't healthy in terms of the heavy loans
Rule No.1 is never lose money. Rule No.2 is never forget rule number one
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