Wazua
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Cytonn looks to list on GEMS
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Horton wrote:Fyatu wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@Fyatu  Hard work. Reminds me of what Peter Lynch and Mark Mobius did. On the ground research. Not easy. Ground research is key. Starting Friday last week 27th April - yesterday 1st May), i have done considerable ground research on FTGH. I was happy to see kids buying Happy's potato crisps for their back to school shopping albeit on a lower scale compared to Tropical heat brands. Haco still dominates hair with Miadi. Heck, even my housegirl from home(ushago...all due respect to my peoples wa ushago) prefers Miadi over Zoe. This is not to say that Zoe was not moving. Next was Longhorn. I visited textbook center in the city and noticed some of their titles were quite popular. I also visited the National Library and noticed a number of shiny(new) longhorn titles. The risk with Longhorn though lies with the future of the book as we know it today(paper form). Do we anticipate a future with no paper books? I don't know how i would be received if for example i went to Baba dogo and requested to meet with Heril Bagera(CEO FTGH) to ask questions about how my business is doing(just like they do in the States). Examples of questions i wish to ask are (1) why do most hardware stores in Githurai and Mlolongo stock Kentank tanks instead of Rino tanks? Are those localities not the market niche for water tanks?...and (2)how the play ground toys business is doing with the mushrooming of Kindergartens built on less than 1/2 acre plots everywhere in the city Way ahead of u sir. I did this with Edwin Dande and the CFO before I bought my shares When I did my research and saw Lehman Brothers on his work history, i ran so fast and never looked back. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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aemathenge wrote:obiero wrote:Horton wrote:Way ahead of u sir. I did this with Edwin Dande and the CFO before I bought my shares
So a goat asks the owner when it will be eaten? How can you honestly seek an objective answer from the quoted individuals He fell for a trick we had perfected at FEP. Whenever we encountered a Chairman/ChairLady of a well endowed Chama, we would arrange a meeting with FEP Founder who would proceed to sweet talk him/her into "investing" all their funds with FEP. Worked like a charm. I know! Where is FEP nowadays?
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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the deal wrote:Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
Had to check twice to confirm that it wasn't my post, because the contents are 100% aligned with my thoughts. The year on year salary expense increase of close to 100% is another laced chalice. This looks a HAL reincarnate
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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obiero wrote:the deal wrote:Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
Had to check twice to confirm that it wasn't my post, because the contents are 100% aligned with my thoughts. The year on year salary expense increase of close to 100% is another laced chalice. This looks a HAL reincarnate Stay Away  Cytonn fanatics care to explain that equity structure? Non Controlling Interest 
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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the deal wrote:Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
Which FY are you referring to and which part of the balance sheet is opaque? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:the deal wrote:Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
Had to check twice to confirm that it wasn't my post, because the contents are 100% aligned with my thoughts. The year on year salary expense increase of close to 100% is another laced chalice. This looks a HAL reincarnate 🤣🤣 I have hextupled my money here in 3.5years curious how you have faired in your picks?
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/17/2014 Posts: 15 Location: Geneva
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@Horton did you mean "Sextuple"? Regards,
Jimmy Boy
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/10/2014 Posts: 969 Location: Kenya
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Swenani wrote:Aguytrying wrote:I'm among those surprised that cytonn has survived this long. To me, this rush to list on the stock market is a red flag. What is the hurry, the firm is very new. I feel like they like being visible and letting everyone know that they are there, instead of working quietly and letting their results speak for you. I just dont buy it. For those who are in, i would sell on the listing rally and wait for the dust to settle. we've seen this with home Afrika just recently Mimi nko ready kuchomeka na Cytonn...My only regret is not being a cytonnaire earlier enough....It's been close to 3 years since guys here started predicting that the sky was about to fall. Same here. I see it as a different alternative to Centum. Real Estate without a doubt is very profitable if done right. I look forward to them breaking away from Real Estate into other investments.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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Swenani wrote:the deal wrote:Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
Which FY are you referring to and which part of the balance sheet is opaque? Cytonns Latest Financial statements are here...I'm referring to a balance sheet posted here by Cytonn itself https://www.cytonn.com/investor-relations
Do you see how much cash they have?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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Horton wrote:obiero wrote:the deal wrote:Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
Had to check twice to confirm that it wasn't my post, because the contents are 100% aligned with my thoughts. The year on year salary expense increase of close to 100% is another laced chalice. This looks a HAL reincarnate 🤣🤣 I have hextupled my money here in 3.5years curious how you have faired in your picks? Emotions aside...congrats on your returns...hope you cash out the moment this thing lists... Now @horton give Wazua 5 reasons why I should join you in Cytonn? I have outlined above why I'm hesitant to join you on this journey to Kannan 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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Horton wrote:obiero wrote:the deal wrote:Balance Sheet looks opaque to me!Given the business they're in...they could be playing with fire here....they should have spun off they're real estate portfolio and listed it as a REIT...but I guess they dont want too much scrutiny from the regulator. This thing looks like Lehman Brothers...Asset-Liquity Mismatch of mega proposition...They need money thus the listing or else how will they fund they're ambitious projects? Real estate sales cycle is long and tedious...even if you see those developer signs which says "80% sold"...its alot of sweat to close deals.....you need cheap long term funds to succed...not those lofty returns Cytonn is promising...look how HF is struggling despite being well funded? I prefer FAHARI I-REIT...Zero debt....lots of cash....theyre investing in completed buildings with tenants...
Had to check twice to confirm that it wasn't my post, because the contents are 100% aligned with my thoughts. The year on year salary expense increase of close to 100% is another laced chalice. This looks a HAL reincarnate 🤣🤣 I have hextupled my money here in 3.5years curious how you have faired in your picks? Good for you!
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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@Fyatu: (1) why do most hardware stores in Githurai and Mlolongo stock Kentank tanks instead of Rino tanks? Are those localities not the market niche for water tanks? I think they have 2 brands Roto and Rino which cater to different markets/segments.
...and (2)how the play ground toys business is doing with the mushrooming of Kindergartens built on less than 1/2 acre plots everywhere in the city Good question! They should aggressively target that market. Though they should stick to private schools that can/will pay. GoK contracts may be huge but are murky.Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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No audited numbers for 2017? Or still cooking the uji LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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KulaRaha wrote:No audited numbers for 2017? Or still cooking the uji LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Its not a laughing matter. Look at the P&L fair value adjustments spike, along with employee costs. Also check total borrowings of KES 7.6B against cash and cash equivalents of KES 76m ONLY. I just might invest in this thing before listing, looking for the next victim to offload onto https://www.cytonn.com/u...financial-statements.pdf
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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How many outstanding shares does Cytonn have? 1H PAT for the parent was 186mn including FV adjustments. Employee costs are 1/3 of revenues and 90% of Gross Profits. Impairment Losses of 47mn. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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VituVingiSana wrote:How many outstanding shares does Cytonn have?
1H PAT for the parent was 186mn including FV adjustments.
Employee costs are 1/3 of revenues and 90% of Gross Profits.
Impairment Losses of 47mn. I dont think there's a definite number, you can walk in and buy shares like @Obiero is thinking of doing. Those numbers stink! "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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murchr wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:How many outstanding shares does Cytonn have?
1H PAT for the parent was 186mn including FV adjustments.
Employee costs are 1/3 of revenues and 90% of Gross Profits.
Impairment Losses of 47mn. I dont think there's a definite number, you can walk in and buy shares like @Obiero is thinking of doing. Those numbers stink! The numbers stink to the high heavens. I have looked at the results from various angles and I see no light, only pitch darkness. How did the revenue increase 140.4% in 12 months? I have also checked out the Amara, Situ and Alma projects scale and do not believe that the projects are worth KES 11.4B listed as assets nor do I believe it cost over 7.6B to finance these establishments as per total liabilities in the H1 books, definitely not more than KES 1.2B would be sufficient fair value for those projects. This a good share to offload onto wanjiku; akule huu, na hasara juu
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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Its not a laughing matter
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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