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SA: Seizing land from white farmers
masukuma
#61 Posted : Thursday, April 05, 2018 7:33:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
The chinese reached the coasts of Africa way before the Europeans - they were on a touristy expedition. The chinese were not competing with anyone, they were just focused on internal matters. The kingdoms of Europe on the other hand were in conflict and were competing with each other - when they came they came to take and build their homes so that they could trump their neighbours. They were not here to see what the Sultan of Malindi had!! they came to take! Let's assume africans developed big boats and sailed around the world, we would only have done to others what was done to us if the competitive spirit was around.


You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.

Historical evidence from Africa wouldn't suggest empires built entirely on your prescribed model.

Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?

Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Quote:
You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.
not sure where you got this in my assertions... I said LET'S ASSUME [PAINTED PICTURE OF ALTERNATIVE REALITY]... I cannot show you based on history that "'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa" - I am making shit up!

Quote:
Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?
Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Take is TAKE!! Steal is when TAKING STUFF FROM PEOPLE AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! we TAKE eggs from chicken. we are basically eating their children for breakfast... but what can they do about it? so when europeans came over here they TOOK stuff... it will be categorized as stealing if and when you can do something about it! taking is only sustainable until it's categorized as stealing!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#62 Posted : Thursday, April 05, 2018 7:41:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
Take is TAKE!! Steal is when TAKING STUFF FROM PEOPLE AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! we TAKE eggs from chicken. we are basically eating their children for breakfast... but what can they do about it?

Boss, uko level ingine! That analogyLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#63 Posted : Thursday, April 05, 2018 8:20:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
The chinese reached the coasts of Africa way before the Europeans - they were on a touristy expedition. The chinese were not competing with anyone, they were just focused on internal matters. The kingdoms of Europe on the other hand were in conflict and were competing with each other - when they came they came to take and build their homes so that they could trump their neighbours. They were not here to see what the Sultan of Malindi had!! they came to take! Let's assume africans developed big boats and sailed around the world, we would only have done to others what was done to us if the competitive spirit was around.

You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.

Historical evidence from Africa wouldn't suggest empires built entirely on your prescribed model.

Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?

Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

To me, the white man suffered from the deadly disease of ‘arrogance’. This disease caused them to believe that they were born (or created) superior to African or any other race for that matter.

This claim that they are the chosen people of the Lord-God with a birth-right of superiority over the rest of mankind naturally, drew them to the ‘Capitalism and Slavery’ model, an oppressive civilization, which arrogantly and deceptively presented as the best that the world had ever experienced.

In order to achieve this so called civilization, they waged endless wars over the natives, wherever they found during their travels abroad, to establish full-spectrum political, economic and military dominion or rule over the whole world. These wars were to enable them to prevail over the natives.
Mukiri
#64 Posted : Thursday, April 05, 2018 9:05:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
The chinese reached the coasts of Africa way before the Europeans - they were on a touristy expedition. The chinese were not competing with anyone, they were just focused on internal matters. The kingdoms of Europe on the other hand were in conflict and were competing with each other - when they came they came to take and build their homes so that they could trump their neighbours. They were not here to see what the Sultan of Malindi had!! they came to take! Let's assume africans developed big boats and sailed around the world, we would only have done to others what was done to us if the competitive spirit was around.


You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.

Historical evidence from Africa wouldn't suggest empires built entirely on your prescribed model.

Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?

Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Quote:
You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.
not sure where you got this in my assertions... I said LET'S ASSUME [PAINTED PICTURE OF ALTERNATIVE REALITY]... I cannot show you based on history that "'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa" - I am making shit up!

Quote:
Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?
Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Take is TAKE!! Steal is when TAKING STUFF FROM PEOPLE AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! we TAKE eggs from chicken. we are basically eating their children for breakfast... but what can they do about it? so when europeans came over here they TOOK stuff... it will be categorized as stealing if and when you can do something about it! taking is only sustainable until it's categorized as stealing!

Was the slave trade 'Taking' or 'Stealing' of Africans? The slaves had eggs, just to use your example smile

Proverbs 19:21
masukuma
#65 Posted : Thursday, April 05, 2018 9:11:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
The chinese reached the coasts of Africa way before the Europeans - they were on a touristy expedition. The chinese were not competing with anyone, they were just focused on internal matters. The kingdoms of Europe on the other hand were in conflict and were competing with each other - when they came they came to take and build their homes so that they could trump their neighbours. They were not here to see what the Sultan of Malindi had!! they came to take! Let's assume africans developed big boats and sailed around the world, we would only have done to others what was done to us if the competitive spirit was around.


You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.

Historical evidence from Africa wouldn't suggest empires built entirely on your prescribed model.

Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?

Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Quote:
You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.
not sure where you got this in my assertions... I said LET'S ASSUME [PAINTED PICTURE OF ALTERNATIVE REALITY]... I cannot show you based on history that "'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa" - I am making shit up!

Quote:
Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?
Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Take is TAKE!! Steal is when TAKING STUFF FROM PEOPLE AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! we TAKE eggs from chicken. we are basically eating their children for breakfast... but what can they do about it? so when europeans came over here they TOOK stuff... it will be categorized as stealing if and when you can do something about it! taking is only sustainable until it's categorized as stealing!

Was the slave trade 'Taking' or 'Stealing' of Africans? The slaves had eggs, just to use your example smile


Like treason...it's all a matter of dates! It was TAKING AFRICANS.... THEN! They could so they did! Mnge-Do-What?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Ngalaka
#66 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 10:39:01 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
The chinese reached the coasts of Africa way before the Europeans - they were on a touristy expedition. The chinese were not competing with anyone, they were just focused on internal matters. The kingdoms of Europe on the other hand were in conflict and were competing with each other - when they came they came to take and build their homes so that they could trump their neighbours. They were not here to see what the Sultan of Malindi had!! they came to take! Let's assume africans developed big boats and sailed around the world, we would only have done to others what was done to us if the competitive spirit was around.


You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.

Historical evidence from Africa wouldn't suggest empires built entirely on your prescribed model.

Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?

Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Quote:
You'd need to show that 'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa and how empire(s) were created in Africa, if at all there were such things in Africa.
not sure where you got this in my assertions... I said LET'S ASSUME [PAINTED PICTURE OF ALTERNATIVE REALITY]... I cannot show you based on history that "'the competitive spirit' was necessarily in Africa" - I am making shit up!

Quote:
Then you're using vague terms on China's intentions during the Mings. What's to 'take'? Steal?
Apart from that, if such a model of taking would prove to be unsustainable as it's now proving, what alternatives would apply? Is Chinese thought and policy today an alternative to your apparently preferred model?

Take is TAKE!! Steal is when TAKING STUFF FROM PEOPLE AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! we TAKE eggs from chicken. we are basically eating their children for breakfast... but what can they do about it? so when europeans came over here they TOOK stuff... it will be categorized as stealing if and when you can do something about it! taking is only sustainable until it's categorized as stealing!

Was the slave trade 'Taking' or 'Stealing' of Africans? The slaves had eggs, just to use your example smile


Trade - the key word!
While we focus on the evil of the guy buying, where do we place the one selling them, the primary seller.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
masukuma
#67 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 11:38:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Ngalaka wrote:

Trade - the key word!
While we focus on the evil of the guy buying, where do we place the one selling them, the primary seller.

Perfect!! <Long but enlightening post alert/>

Quote:

In Southeast Asia the spread of European naval and commercial power in the early modern period curtailed a promising period of economic expansion and institutional change. In the same period as the Dutch East India Company was expanding, a very different sort of trade was intensifying in Africa: the slave trade.

In the United States, southern slavery was often referred to as the "peculiar institution." But historically, as the great classical scholar Moses Finlay pointed out, slavery was anything but peculiar, it was present in almost every society. It was, as we saw earlier, endemic in Ancient Rome and in Africa, long a source of slaves for Europe, though not the only one.

In the Roman period slaves came from Slavic peoples around the Black Sea, from the Middle East, and also from Northern Europe. But by 1400, Europeans had stopped enslaving each other. Africa, however, did not undergo the transition from slavery to serfdom as did medieval Europe. Before the early modern period, there was a vibrant slave trade in East Africa, and large numbers of slaves were transported across the Sahara to the Arabian Peninsula. Moreover, the large medieval West African states of Mali, Ghana, and Songhai made heavy use of slaves in the
government, the army, and agriculture, adopting organizational models from the Muslim North African states with whom they traded.

It was the development of the sugar plantation colonies of the Caribbean beginning in the early seventeenth century that led to a dramatic escalation of the international slave trade and to an unprecedented increase in the importance of slavery within Africa itself. In the sixteenth century, probably about 300,000 slaves were traded in the Atlantic. They came mostly from Central Africa, with heavy involvement of Kongo and the Portuguese based farther south in Luanda, now the capital of Angola. During this time, the trans-Saharan slave trade was still larger, with probably about 550,000 Africans moving north as slaves. In the seventeenth century, the situation reversed. About 1,350,000 Africans were sold as slaves in the Atlantic trade, the majority now being shipped to the Americas. The numbers involved in the Saharan trade were relatively unchanged. The eighteenth century saw another dramatic increase, with about 6,000,000 slaves being shipped across the Atlantic and maybe 700,000 across the Sahara. Adding the figures up over periods and parts of Africa, well over 10,000,000 Africans were shipped out of the continent as slaves.

The sudden appearance of Europeans all around the coast of Western and Central Africa eager to buy slaves could not but have a transformative impact on African societies. Most slaves who were shipped to the Americas were war captives subsequently transported to the coast. The increase in warfare was fueled by huge imports of guns and ammunition, which the Europeans exchanged for slaves. By 1730 about 180,000 guns were being imported every year just along the West African coast, and between 1750 and the early nineteenth century, the British alone sold between 283,000 and 394,000 guns a year. Between 1750 and 1807, the British sold an extraordinary 22,000 tons of gunpowder, making an average of about 384,000 kilograms annually, along with 91,000 kilograms of lead per year. Farther to the south, the trade was just as vigorous. On the Loango coast, north of the Kingdom of Kongo,
Europeans sold about 50,000 guns a year.

All this warfare and conflict not only caused major loss of life and human suffering but also put in motion a particular path of institutional development in Africa. Before the early modern era, African societies were less centralized politically than those of Eurasia. Most polities were small scale, with tribal chiefs and perhaps kings controlling land and resources. Many, as we showed with Somalia, had no structure of hierarchical political authority at all. The slave trade initiated two adverse political processes. First, many polities initially became more absolutist, organized around a single objective: to enslave and sell others to European slavers. Second, as a consequence but, paradoxically, in opposition to the first process, warring and slaving ultimately destroyed whatever order and legitimate state authority existed in sub-Saharan Africa. Apart from warfare, slaves were also kidnapped and captured by small-scale raiding. The law also became a tool of enslavement. No matter what crime you committed, the penalty was slavery. The English merchant Francis Moore observed the consequences of this along the Senegambia coast of West Africa in the 1730s:
Quote:
Since this slave trade has been us'd, all punishments are changed into slavery; there being an advantage on such condemnations, they strain for crimes very hard, in order to get the benefit of selling the criminal. Not only murder, theft and adultery, are punished by selling the criminal for slave, but every trifling case is punished in the same manner.


Institutions, even religious ones, became perverted by the desire to capture and sell slaves. One example is the famous oracle at Arochukwa, in eastern Nigeria. The oracle was widely believed to speak for a prominent deity in the region respected by the major local ethnic groups, the Ijaw, the Ibibio, and the Igbo. The oracle was approached to settle disputes and adjudicate on disagreements. Plaintiffs who traveled to Arochukwa to face the oracle had to descend from the town into a gorge of the Cross River, where the oracle was housed in a tall cave, the front of which was lined with human skulls. The priests of the oracle, in league with the Aro slavers and merchants, would dispense the decision of the oracle. Often this involved people being "swallowed" by the oracle, which actually meant that once they had passed through the cave, they were led away down the Cross River and to the waiting ships of the Europeans. This process in which all laws and customs were distorted and broken to capture slaves and more slaves had devastating effects on political centralization, though in some places it did lead to the rise of powerful states whose main raison d'etre was raiding and slaving. The Kingdom of Kongo itself was probably the first African state to experience a metamorphosis into a slaving state, until it was destroyed by civil war. Other slaving states arose most prominently in West Africa and included Oyo in Nigeria, Dahomey in Benin, and subsequently Asante in Ghana.

The expansion of the state of Oyo in the middle of the seventeenth century, for example, is directly related to the increase of slave exports on the coast. The state's power was the result of a military revolution that involved the import of horses from the north and the formation of a powerful cavalry that could decimate opposing armies. As Oyo expanded south toward the coast, it crushed the intervening polities and sold many of their inhabitants for slaves. In the period between 1690 and 1740, Oyo established its monopoly in the interior of what came to be known as the Slave Coast. It is estimated that 80 to 90 percent of the slaves sold on the coast were the result of these conquests. A similar dramatic connection between warfare and slave supply came farther west in the eighteenth century, on the Gold Coast, the area that is now Ghana. After 1700 the state of Asante expanded from the interior, in much the same way as Oyo had previously. During the first half of the eighteenth century, this expansion triggered the so-called Akan Wars, as Asante defeated one independent state after another. The last, Gyaman, was conquered in 1747. The preponderance of the 375,000 slaves exported from the Gold Coast between 1700 and 1750 were captives taken in these wars.

Probably the most obvious impact of this massive extraction of human beings was demographic. It is difficult to know with any certitude what the population of Africa was before the modern period, but scholars have made various plausible estimates of the impact of the slave trade on the population. The historian Patrick Manning estimates that the population of those areas of West and West-Central Africa that provided slaves for export was around twenty-two to twenty-five million in the early eighteenth century. On the conservative assumption that during the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries these areas would have experienced a rate of population growth of about half a percent a year without the slave trade, Manning estimated that the population of this region in 1850 ought to have been at least forty-six to fifty-three million. In fact, it was about one-half of this.

This massive difference was not only due to about eight million people being exported as slaves from this region between 1700 and 1850, but the millions likely killed by continual internal warfare aimed at capturing slaves. Slavery and the slave trade in Africa further disrupted family and marriage structures and may also have reduced fertility.

Beginning in the late eighteenth century, a strong movement to abolish the slave trade began to gain momentum in Britain, led by the charismatic figure of William Wilberforce. After repeated failures, in 1807 the abolitionists persuaded the British Parliament to pass a bill making the slave trade illegal.

The United States followed with a similar measure the next year. The British government went further, though: it actively sought to implement this measure by stationing naval squadrons in the Atlantic to try to stamp out the slave trade. Though it took some time for these measures to be truly effective, and it was not until 1834 that slavery itself was abolished in the British Empire, the days of the Atlantic slave trade, by far the largest part of the trade, were numbered.

Though the end of the slave trade after 1807 did reduce the external demand for slaves from Africa, this did not mean that slavery's impact on African societies and institutions would magically melt away. Many African states had become organized around slaving, and the British putting an end to the trade did not change this reality. Moreover, slavery had become much more prevalent within Africa itself. These factors would ultimately shape the path of development in Africa not only before but also after 1807.

In the place of slavery came "legitimate commerce," a phrase coined for the export from Africa of new commodities not tied to the slave trade. These goods included palm oil and kernels, peanuts, ivory, rubber, and gum arabic. As European and North American incomes expanded with the spread of the Industrial Revolution, demand for many of these tropical products rose sharply. Just as African societies took aggressive advantage of the economic opportunities presented by the slave trade, they did the same with legitimate commerce. But they did so in a peculiar context, one in which slavery was a way of life but the external demand for slaves had suddenly dried up. What were all these slaves to do now that they could not be sold to Europeans? The answer was simple: they could be profitably put to work, under coercion, in Africa, producing the new items of legitimate commerce.

One of the best documented examples was in Asante, in modern Ghana. Prior to 1807, the Asante Empire had been heavily involved in the capturing and export of slaves, bringing them down to the coast to be sold at the great slaving castles of Cape Coast and Elmina. After 1807, with this option closed off, the Asante political elite reorganized their economy. However, slaving and slavery did not end. Rather, slaves were settled on large plantations, initially around the capital city of Kumase, but later spread throughout the empire (corresponding to most of the interior of Ghana). They were employed in the production of gold and kola nuts for export, but also grew large quantities of food and were intensively used as porters, since Asante did not use wheeled transportation. Farther east, similar adaptations took place. In Dahomey, for example, the king had large palm oil plantations near the coastal ports of Whydah and Porto Novo, all based on slave labor.

So the abolition of the slave trade, rather than making slavery in Africa wither away, simply led to a redeployment of the slaves, who were now used within Africa rather than in the Americas. Moreover, many of the political institutions the slave trade had wrought in the previous two centuries were unaltered and patterns of behavior persisted. For example, in Nigeria in the 1820s and '30s the once- great Oyo Kingdom collapsed. It was undermined by civil wars and the rise of the Yoruba city-states, such as Illorin and Ibadan, that were directly involved in the slave trade, to its south. In the 1830s, the capital of Oyo was sacked, and after that the Yoruba cities contested power with Dahomey for regional dominance. They fought an almost continuous series of wars in the first half of the century, which generated a massive supply of slaves. Along with this went the normal rounds of kidnapping and condemnation by oracles and smaller-scale raiding. Kidnapping was such a problem in some parts of Nigeria that parents would not let their children play outside for fear they would be taken and sold into slavery.

As a result slavery, rather than contracting, appears to have expanded in Africa throughout the nineteenth century. Though accurate figures are hard to come by, a number of existing accounts written by travelers and merchants during this time suggest that in the West African kingdoms of Asante and Dahomey and in the Yoruba city-states well over half of the population were slaves. More accurate data exist from early French colonial records for the western Sudan, a large swath of western Africa, stretching from Senegal, via Mali and Burkina Faso, to Niger and Chad. In this region 30 percent of the population was enslaved in 1900.

Just as with the emergence of legitimate commerce, the advent of formal colonization after the Scramble for Africa failed to destroy slavery in Africa. Though much of European penetration into Africa was justified on the grounds that slavery had to be combated and abolished, the reality was
different. In most parts of colonial Africa, slavery continued well into the twentieth century. In Sierra Leone, for example, it was only in 1928 that slavery was finally abolished, even though the capital city of Freetown was originally established in the late eighteenth century as a haven for slaves repatriated from the Americas. It then became an important base for the British antislavery squadron and a new home for freed slaves rescued from slave ships captured by the British navy. Even with this symbolism slavery lingered in Sierra Leone for 130 years. Liberia, just south of Sierra Leone, was likewise founded for freed American slaves in the 1840s. Yet there, too, slavery lingered into the twentieth century; as late as the 1960s, it was estimated that one-quarter of the labor force were coerced, living and working in conditions close to slavery. Given the extractive economic and political institutions based on the slave trade, industrialization did not spread to sub-Saharan Africa, which stagnated or even experienced economic retardation as other parts of the world were transforming their economies.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#68 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 12:37:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Masukuma, it's good to acknowledge that you're making stuff up. Now what remains is to ask why you are interested in this kind of narrative. Could it be because you claim that humans are grabbers and 'takers' by nature and compulsion?

Once you agree with the word 'trade' then I think your argument of 'taking' loses the weight you've given to it.

Humans don't just take eggs from Chicken because they simply can. They take the eggs because they believe it's their due given the investment and implicit contract between them and chicken.

AlphDoti
#69 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 12:42:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:

Trade - the key word!
While we focus on the evil of the guy buying, where do we place the one selling them, the primary seller.

Perfect!! <Long but enlightening post alert/>
Quote:
In Southeast Asia the spread of European naval and commercial power in the early modern period curtailed a promising period of economic expansion and institutional change. In the same period as the Dutch East India Company was expanding, a very different sort of trade was intensifying in Africa: the slave trade.

In the United States, southern slavery was often referred to as the "peculiar institution." But historically, as the great classical scholar Moses Finlay pointed out, slavery was anything but peculiar, it was present in almost every society. It was, as we saw earlier, endemic in Ancient Rome and in Africa, long a source of slaves for Europe, though not the only one.

In the Roman period slaves came from Slavic peoples around the Black Sea, from the Middle East, and also from Northern Europe. But by 1400, Europeans had stopped enslaving each other. Africa, however, did not undergo the transition from slavery to serfdom as did medieval Europe. Before the early modern period, there was a vibrant slave trade in East Africa, and large numbers of slaves were transported across the Sahara to the Arabian Peninsula. Moreover, the large medieval West African states of Mali, Ghana, and Songhai made heavy use of slaves in the
government, the army, and agriculture, adopting organizational models from the Muslim North African states with whom they traded.

It was the development of the sugar plantation colonies of the Caribbean beginning in the early seventeenth century that led to a dramatic escalation of the international slave trade and to an unprecedented increase in the importance of slavery within Africa itself. In the sixteenth century, probably about 300,000 slaves were traded in the Atlantic. They came mostly from Central Africa, with heavy involvement of Kongo and the Portuguese based farther south in Luanda, now the capital of Angola. During this time, the trans-Saharan slave trade was still larger, with probably about 550,000 Africans moving north as slaves. In the seventeenth century, the situation reversed. About 1,350,000 Africans were sold as slaves in the Atlantic trade, the majority now being shipped to the Americas. The numbers involved in the Saharan trade were relatively unchanged. The eighteenth century saw another dramatic increase, with about 6,000,000 slaves being shipped across the Atlantic and maybe 700,000 across the Sahara. Adding the figures up over periods and parts of Africa, well over 10,000,000 Africans were shipped out of the continent as slaves.

The sudden appearance of Europeans all around the coast of Western and Central Africa eager to buy slaves could not but have a transformative impact on African societies. Most slaves who were shipped to the Americas were war captives subsequently transported to the coast. The increase in warfare was fueled by huge imports of guns and ammunition, which the Europeans exchanged for slaves. By 1730 about 180,000 guns were being imported every year just along the West African coast, and between 1750 and the early nineteenth century, the British alone sold between 283,000 and 394,000 guns a year. Between 1750 and 1807, the British sold an extraordinary 22,000 tons of gunpowder, making an average of about 384,000 kilograms annually, along with 91,000 kilograms of lead per year. Farther to the south, the trade was just as vigorous. On the Loango coast, north of the Kingdom of Kongo,
Europeans sold about 50,000 guns a year.

All this warfare and conflict not only caused major loss of life and human suffering but also put in motion a particular path of institutional development in Africa. Before the early modern era, African societies were less centralized politically than those of Eurasia. Most polities were small scale, with tribal chiefs and perhaps kings controlling land and resources. Many, as we showed with Somalia, had no structure of hierarchical political authority at all. The slave trade initiated two adverse political processes. First, many polities initially became more absolutist, organized around a single objective: to enslave and sell others to European slavers. Second, as a consequence but, paradoxically, in opposition to the first process, warring and slaving ultimately destroyed whatever order and legitimate state authority existed in sub-Saharan Africa. Apart from warfare, slaves were also kidnapped and captured by small-scale raiding. The law also became a tool of enslavement. No matter what crime you committed, the penalty was slavery. The English merchant Francis Moore observed the consequences of this along the Senegambia coast of West Africa in the 1730s:
Quote:
Since this slave trade has been us'd, all punishments are changed into slavery; there being an advantage on such condemnations, they strain for crimes very hard, in order to get the benefit of selling the criminal. Not only murder, theft and adultery, are punished by selling the criminal for slave, but every trifling case is punished in the same manner.


Institutions, even religious ones, became perverted by the desire to capture and sell slaves. One example is the famous oracle at Arochukwa, in eastern Nigeria. The oracle was widely believed to speak for a prominent deity in the region respected by the major local ethnic groups, the Ijaw, the Ibibio, and the Igbo. The oracle was approached to settle disputes and adjudicate on disagreements. Plaintiffs who traveled to Arochukwa to face the oracle had to descend from the town into a gorge of the Cross River, where the oracle was housed in a tall cave, the front of which was lined with human skulls. The priests of the oracle, in league with the Aro slavers and merchants, would dispense the decision of the oracle. Often this involved people being "swallowed" by the oracle, which actually meant that once they had passed through the cave, they were led away down the Cross River and to the waiting ships of the Europeans. This process in which all laws and customs were distorted and broken to capture slaves and more slaves had devastating effects on political centralization, though in some places it did lead to the rise of powerful states whose main raison d'etre was raiding and slaving. The Kingdom of Kongo itself was probably the first African state to experience a metamorphosis into a slaving state, until it was destroyed by civil war. Other slaving states arose most prominently in West Africa and included Oyo in Nigeria, Dahomey in Benin, and subsequently Asante in Ghana.

The expansion of the state of Oyo in the middle of the seventeenth century, for example, is directly related to the increase of slave exports on the coast. The state's power was the result of a military revolution that involved the import of horses from the north and the formation of a powerful cavalry that could decimate opposing armies. As Oyo expanded south toward the coast, it crushed the intervening polities and sold many of their inhabitants for slaves. In the period between 1690 and 1740, Oyo established its monopoly in the interior of what came to be known as the Slave Coast. It is estimated that 80 to 90 percent of the slaves sold on the coast were the result of these conquests. A similar dramatic connection between warfare and slave supply came farther west in the eighteenth century, on the Gold Coast, the area that is now Ghana. After 1700 the state of Asante expanded from the interior, in much the same way as Oyo had previously. During the first half of the eighteenth century, this expansion triggered the so-called Akan Wars, as Asante defeated one independent state after another. The last, Gyaman, was conquered in 1747. The preponderance of the 375,000 slaves exported from the Gold Coast between 1700 and 1750 were captives taken in these wars.

Probably the most obvious impact of this massive extraction of human beings was demographic. It is difficult to know with any certitude what the population of Africa was before the modern period, but scholars have made various plausible estimates of the impact of the slave trade on the population. The historian Patrick Manning estimates that the population of those areas of West and West-Central Africa that provided slaves for export was around twenty-two to twenty-five million in the early eighteenth century. On the conservative assumption that during the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries these areas would have experienced a rate of population growth of about half a percent a year without the slave trade, Manning estimated that the population of this region in 1850 ought to have been at least forty-six to fifty-three million. In fact, it was about one-half of this.

This massive difference was not only due to about eight million people being exported as slaves from this region between 1700 and 1850, but the millions likely killed by continual internal warfare aimed at capturing slaves. Slavery and the slave trade in Africa further disrupted family and marriage structures and may also have reduced fertility.

Beginning in the late eighteenth century, a strong movement to abolish the slave trade began to gain momentum in Britain, led by the charismatic figure of William Wilberforce. After repeated failures, in 1807 the abolitionists persuaded the British Parliament to pass a bill making the slave trade illegal.

The United States followed with a similar measure the next year. The British government went further, though: it actively sought to implement this measure by stationing naval squadrons in the Atlantic to try to stamp out the slave trade. Though it took some time for these measures to be truly effective, and it was not until 1834 that slavery itself was abolished in the British Empire, the days of the Atlantic slave trade, by far the largest part of the trade, were numbered.

Though the end of the slave trade after 1807 did reduce the external demand for slaves from Africa, this did not mean that slavery's impact on African societies and institutions would magically melt away. Many African states had become organized around slaving, and the British putting an end to the trade did not change this reality. Moreover, slavery had become much more prevalent within Africa itself. These factors would ultimately shape the path of development in Africa not only before but also after 1807.

In the place of slavery came "legitimate commerce," a phrase coined for the export from Africa of new commodities not tied to the slave trade. These goods included palm oil and kernels, peanuts, ivory, rubber, and gum arabic. As European and North American incomes expanded with the spread of the Industrial Revolution, demand for many of these tropical products rose sharply. Just as African societies took aggressive advantage of the economic opportunities presented by the slave trade, they did the same with legitimate commerce. But they did so in a peculiar context, one in which slavery was a way of life but the external demand for slaves had suddenly dried up. What were all these slaves to do now that they could not be sold to Europeans? The answer was simple: they could be profitably put to work, under coercion, in Africa, producing the new items of legitimate commerce.

One of the best documented examples was in Asante, in modern Ghana. Prior to 1807, the Asante Empire had been heavily involved in the capturing and export of slaves, bringing them down to the coast to be sold at the great slaving castles of Cape Coast and Elmina. After 1807, with this option closed off, the Asante political elite reorganized their economy. However, slaving and slavery did not end. Rather, slaves were settled on large plantations, initially around the capital city of Kumase, but later spread throughout the empire (corresponding to most of the interior of Ghana). They were employed in the production of gold and kola nuts for export, but also grew large quantities of food and were intensively used as porters, since Asante did not use wheeled transportation. Farther east, similar adaptations took place. In Dahomey, for example, the king had large palm oil plantations near the coastal ports of Whydah and Porto Novo, all based on slave labor.

So the abolition of the slave trade, rather than making slavery in Africa wither away, simply led to a redeployment of the slaves, who were now used within Africa rather than in the Americas. Moreover, many of the political institutions the slave trade had wrought in the previous two centuries were unaltered and patterns of behavior persisted. For example, in Nigeria in the 1820s and '30s the once- great Oyo Kingdom collapsed. It was undermined by civil wars and the rise of the Yoruba city-states, such as Illorin and Ibadan, that were directly involved in the slave trade, to its south. In the 1830s, the capital of Oyo was sacked, and after that the Yoruba cities contested power with Dahomey for regional dominance. They fought an almost continuous series of wars in the first half of the century, which generated a massive supply of slaves. Along with this went the normal rounds of kidnapping and condemnation by oracles and smaller-scale raiding. Kidnapping was such a problem in some parts of Nigeria that parents would not let their children play outside for fear they would be taken and sold into slavery.

As a result slavery, rather than contracting, appears to have expanded in Africa throughout the nineteenth century. Though accurate figures are hard to come by, a number of existing accounts written by travelers and merchants during this time suggest that in the West African kingdoms of Asante and Dahomey and in the Yoruba city-states well over half of the population were slaves. More accurate data exist from early French colonial records for the western Sudan, a large swath of western Africa, stretching from Senegal, via Mali and Burkina Faso, to Niger and Chad. In this region 30 percent of the population was enslaved in 1900.

Just as with the emergence of legitimate commerce, the advent of formal colonization after the Scramble for Africa failed to destroy slavery in Africa. Though much of European penetration into Africa was justified on the grounds that slavery had to be combated and abolished, the reality was
different. In most parts of colonial Africa, slavery continued well into the twentieth century. In Sierra Leone, for example, it was only in 1928 that slavery was finally abolished, even though the capital city of Freetown was originally established in the late eighteenth century as a haven for slaves repatriated from the Americas. It then became an important base for the British antislavery squadron and a new home for freed slaves rescued from slave ships captured by the British navy. Even with this symbolism slavery lingered in Sierra Leone for 130 years. Liberia, just south of Sierra Leone, was likewise founded for freed American slaves in the 1840s. Yet there, too, slavery lingered into the twentieth century; as late as the 1960s, it was estimated that one-quarter of the labor force were coerced, living and working in conditions close to slavery. Given the extractive economic and political institutions based on the slave trade, industrialization did not spread to sub-Saharan Africa, which stagnated or even experienced economic retardation as other parts of the world were transforming their economies.

Wow! That is one interesting piece! Africans actually suffered...
AlphDoti
#70 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 12:47:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
What I meant yestrday is, we have a people, an arrogant pple, who proclaim themselves to be the chosen of the Lord God. They say we are the elite of mankind and all the rest of mankind are inferior to us... They believe, they have an ordained mission to civilize the world. Their attitude claiming to be superior to all the rest of mankind and claiming to have a mission to civilize the word of mankind. And that is what they did!

This is modern Western civilization led by the wh1te man! You see the arrogance?

These are the people who yearn to tramp others on their way... They take their lands... they ignite wars... they take their resources...

None of other explorers and traders did grabbed lands of others...
AlphDoti
#71 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 12:49:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Wacha nichukue bakora nielekee msikitini... Sickquot; Sickquot;
tom_boy
#72 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 1:12:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
AlphDoti wrote:
What I meant yestrday is, we have a people, an arrogant pple, who proclaim themselves to be the chosen of the Lord God. They say we are the elite of mankind and all the rest of mankind are inferior to us... They believe, they have an ordained mission to civilize the world. Their attitude claiming to be superior to all the rest of mankind and claiming to have a mission to civilize the word of mankind. And that is what they did!

This is modern Western civilization led by the wh1te man! You see the arrogance?

These are the people who yearn to tramp others on their way... They take their lands... they ignite wars... they take their resources...

None of other explorers and traders did grabbed lands of others...


I agree. And with that comes a brainwashed version of what is success. Whereas there are those who assume we are better off because we were colonized, I beg to differ.

Life should be measured in terms of quality of enjoyment derived, not by quantity of possessions.

Modern life is based on comparisons based on possessions. A great tragedy. That is why fake economists cry foul when there is no money to fund tenderpreneurs, speculators and mitumba traders and cry to IMF to lift rate caps.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
masukuma
#73 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 1:34:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
@Masukuma, it's good to acknowledge that you're making stuff up. Now what remains is to ask why you are interested in this kind of narrative. Could it be because you claim that humans are grabbers and 'takers' by nature and compulsion?

Once you agree with the word 'trade' then I think your argument of 'taking' loses the weight you've given to it.

Humans don't just take eggs from Chicken because they simply can. They take the eggs because they believe it's their due given the investment and implicit contract between them and chicken.


Do you know how expensive slaves were? You think they were free? Someone said that in today's dollars it would be close to $130,000! that's 13M bob!



Do you think a farmer in the south looked at a slave running away as someone getting "free" or a huge cost!! Getting labour out of them was 'their due given the investment and implicit contract between them and the Slaves'
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#74 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 3:03:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tom_boy wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
What I meant yestrday is, we have a people, an arrogant pple, who proclaim themselves to be the chosen of the Lord God. They say we are the elite of mankind and all the rest of mankind are inferior to us... They believe, they have an ordained mission to civilize the world. Their attitude claiming to be superior to all the rest of mankind and claiming to have a mission to civilize the word of mankind. And that is what they did!

This is modern Western civilization led by the wh1te man! You see the arrogance?

These are the people who yearn to tramp others on their way... They take their lands... they ignite wars... they take their resources...

None of other explorers and traders did grabbed lands of others...

I agree. And with that comes a brainwashed version of what is success. Whereas there are those who assume we are better off because we were colonized, I beg to differ.

Life should be measured in terms of quality of enjoyment derived, not by quantity of possessions.

Modern life is based on comparisons based on possessions. A great tragedy. That is why fake economists cry foul when there is no money to fund tenderpreneurs, speculators and mitumba traders and cry to IMF to lift rate caps.

I agree with you 100%... Western thinking of success is possessing a lot of material things. Not really. This thinking motivates greed.
AlphDoti
#75 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 3:09:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
So today, because of our study of historical injustices, we say you are arrogant people. So let the SA people tell them, Get out! You are arrogant. And arrogance will be allowed in Africa!
Nandwa
#76 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 3:27:05 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049
AlphDoti wrote:
So today, because of our study of historical injustices, we say you are arrogant people. So let the SA people tell them, Get out! You are arrogant. And arrogance will be allowed in Africa!

Your posts on this thread confirm one thing, you are a racist.
Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
tycho
#77 Posted : Saturday, April 07, 2018 8:20:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Masukuma, it's good to acknowledge that you're making stuff up. Now what remains is to ask why you are interested in this kind of narrative. Could it be because you claim that humans are grabbers and 'takers' by nature and compulsion?

Once you agree with the word 'trade' then I think your argument of 'taking' loses the weight you've given to it.

Humans don't just take eggs from Chicken because they simply can. They take the eggs because they believe it's their due given the investment and implicit contract between them and chicken.


Do you know how expensive slaves were? You think they were free? Someone said that in today's dollars it would be close to $130,000! that's 13M bob!



Do you think a farmer in the south looked at a slave running away as someone getting "free" or a huge cost!! Getting labour out of them was 'their due given the investment and implicit contract between them and the Slaves'


Yes, and that's what my argument has been. Or rather sub-urgument.

Because the main thing here is about whether the 'Western capitalist' system as presented was in fact necessary and that Africans could do the same thing given the circumstances in the past, present, or future.

Not that there were no slaves in ancient Africa! In fact, let me say something that may appear to be controversial. There will most of the time, some people who'll for one reason or another, submit to slavery, willingly. Or even by force. For me that's quite painful. But I must accept the human condition as it is.

But what if I have slaves? Do I have to deal with them the way mzungu did?

There were people who chose to give most state administrative jobs to slaves, for example. Conditions alone never dictate human choice.
masukuma
#78 Posted : Saturday, April 07, 2018 8:57:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Masukuma, it's good to acknowledge that you're making stuff up. Now what remains is to ask why you are interested in this kind of narrative. Could it be because you claim that humans are grabbers and 'takers' by nature and compulsion?

Once you agree with the word 'trade' then I think your argument of 'taking' loses the weight you've given to it.

Humans don't just take eggs from Chicken because they simply can. They take the eggs because they believe it's their due given the investment and implicit contract between them and chicken.


Do you know how expensive slaves were? You think they were free? Someone said that in today's dollars it would be close to $130,000! that's 13M bob!



Do you think a farmer in the south looked at a slave running away as someone getting "free" or a huge cost!! Getting labour out of them was 'their due given the investment and implicit contract between them and the Slaves'


Yes, and that's what my argument has been. Or rather sub-urgument.

Because the main thing here is about whether the 'Western capitalist' system as presented was in fact necessary and that Africans could do the same thing given the circumstances in the past, present, or future.

Not that there were no slaves in ancient Africa! In fact, let me say something that may appear to be controversial. There will most of the time, some people who'll for one reason or another, submit to slavery, willingly. Or even by force. For me that's quite painful. But I must accept the human condition as it is.

But what if I have slaves? Do I have to deal with them the way mzungu did?

There were people who chose to give most state administrative jobs to slaves, for example. Conditions alone never dictate human choice.

Perhaps we need to define what the "western capitalist" system is. To me it's just the "capitalist" system! out of all the economic systems tested it has been responsible for the greatest growth we know. it's literally raw evolution at an ideas and work level. The only short coming is that if you jump on the wagon late after guys took off years ago - you are kinda screwed unless you get some shit below the ground that costs you nothing but you can sell for exorbitant prices. It's really a beautiful system on it's own. The only weakness it has is that because it sustained itself first in areas of the world where people had pale skins - those people grew a superiority complex. In reality it's a system that any bunch of people embrace - it works for them. It's a system of rewarding/'incentifizing' work - The is this beautiful scene in the movie schindler's list

The dude had skills but if he was motivated/'incentifized' with being the greatest beneficiary of his efforts... it would have been different.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#79 Posted : Saturday, April 07, 2018 8:22:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Masukuma,I believe 'western capitalism'is essentially a strategy for playing the political-economy with the aim of increasing and protecting power at the expense of other players.

It is a strategy that bears a specific cultural flavor that's different from other cultural flavors. That's why for example, the colonialists had to have an assimilation policy.

Now if it's a strategy then it's a contingent. And indeed strategies depend on moments and many other variables that prevent us from making inferences in your post.
AlphDoti
#80 Posted : Saturday, April 07, 2018 8:58:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Nandwa wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
So today, because of our study of historical injustices, we say you are arrogant people. So let the SA people tell them, Get out! You are arrogant. And arrogance will be allowed in Africa!

Your posts on this thread confirm one thing, you are a racist.

If "arrogance" is a race...

My words are "And arrogance will NOT be allowed in Africa!"
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