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Centum pays out KSH 1 billion to employees
Rank: Member Joined: 2/7/2014 Posts: 155
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At this rate,it is better being an employee than an investor.what are we teaching upcoming generation?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Saw on twirra djck said if we can give employees 1b what can we not do for shareholders, watch this space he says one big happy family he says.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 896
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It doesn't matter what they can do to shareholders, the fact remains the employees unfairly enriching themselves with shareholders funds which should be reinvested as per the company strategy “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,921
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This is great motivation to staff to keep working hard & increasing shareholders' wealth. Keeps staff on their toes! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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Angelica _ann wrote:This is great motivation to staff to keep working hard & increasing shareholders' wealth. Keeps staff on their toes! Dream on dreaming on! The bonuses are a percentage of the gains on NAV. So, can we get the breakdown of how much NAV have grown over the years. I strongly sense that this gains are imaginary and/or not attributable to the employees. A good example is that REA Vipingo land in Kilifi, where the value of the land will be BLOWN UP like 5 million bobs per acre. I also think the employees have already pocketed bonuses on Two Rivers, yet the project has not been completed. Remember what happened at TransCentury Ltd when they disposed of Kenya Railways. The management was getting bonuses on gains that did not exist. Lesson Learnt. Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 896
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This is what happens when employees think that they are doing share holders a favour by increasing NAV of a company. If they are to give bonuses, it should be capped and not a percentage of value increase. “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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..UAP Holdings has posted a Sh449 million net loss in its 2015 half year results compared to Sh53.8 million net profit recorded over the same period in 2014... The employee at centum who closed the deal that saw OMAM buy the 13% UAP stake held by Centum in effect made centum KES 5.2 billion from that single deal. How would you reward your analysts if they flipped a loss making investment for 5.2 billion in profit? If the cadre of analysts you employ can do this for you.. how would you encourage them to do more and better yet remain loyal? ...unlike BRITAM where smart guys felt unappreciated and decided to bounce as a unit of their own? The bonuses are Ok as a cost of creating shareholder wealth. dividend funds reinvested boost shareholder wealth of entire company. Centum does what you and I do here. Research and analyse best investment opportunities. but unlike you and I, they have access to billions of capital outlay in form of shareholders' funds. you and I just have our savings...or chama cash to play with. If you had billions in cash and I helped you make billions more..you would reward me to keep me. way beyond salary. Ask Acorn guys Thank you for selling. #HappyInvesting ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16 - 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,570
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5.2 Billion PROFIT???? They bought the stake at how much and sold at how much? After how long? Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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ProverB wrote:..UAP Holdings has posted a Sh449 million net loss in its 2015 half year results compared to Sh53.8 million net profit recorded over the same period in 2014...
The employee at centum who closed the deal that saw OMAM buy the 13% UAP stake held by Centum in effect made centum KES 5.2 billion from that single deal.
How would you reward your analysts if they flipped a loss making investment for 5.2 billion in profit?
If the cadre of analysts you employ can do this for you.. how would you encourage them to do more and better yet remain loyal? ...unlike BRITAM where smart guys felt unappreciated and decided to bounce as a unit of their own?
The bonuses are Ok as a cost of creating shareholder wealth. dividend funds reinvested boost shareholder wealth of entire company.
Centum does what you and I do here. Research and analyse best investment opportunities. but unlike you and I, they have access to billions of capital outlay in form of shareholders' funds. you and I just have our savings...or chama cash to play with.
If you had billions in cash and I helped you make billions more..you would reward me to keep me. way beyond salary. Ask Acorn guys
Thank you for selling.
#HappyInvesting And how about the shareholders? Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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dunkang wrote:ProverB wrote:..UAP Holdings has posted a Sh449 million net loss in its 2015 half year results compared to Sh53.8 million net profit recorded over the same period in 2014...
The employee at centum who closed the deal that saw OMAM buy the 13% UAP stake held by Centum in effect made centum KES 5.2 billion from that single deal.
How would you reward your analysts if they flipped a loss making investment for 5.2 billion in profit?
If the cadre of analysts you employ can do this for you.. how would you encourage them to do more and better yet remain loyal? ...unlike BRITAM where smart guys felt unappreciated and decided to bounce as a unit of their own?
The bonuses are Ok as a cost of creating shareholder wealth. dividend funds reinvested boost shareholder wealth of entire company.
Centum does what you and I do here. Research and analyse best investment opportunities. but unlike you and I, they have access to billions of capital outlay in form of shareholders' funds. you and I just have our savings...or chama cash to play with.
If you had billions in cash and I helped you make billions more..you would reward me to keep me. way beyond salary. Ask Acorn guys
Thank you for selling.
#HappyInvesting And how about the shareholders? Dunkang... compare share value of Centum now to what it was as ICDC 9 years ago with mworia still an intern and the company issuing profit warnings then. Has shareholders' wealth grown or not? ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16 - 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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MaichBlack wrote:5.2 Billion PROFIT???? They bought the stake at how much and sold at how much? After how long? http://www.businessdaily...84/-/yrnm6u/-/index.html..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16 - 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 896
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ProverB wrote:..UAP Holdings has posted a Sh449 million net loss in its 2015 half year results compared to Sh53.8 million net profit recorded over the same period in 2014...
The employee at centum who closed the deal that saw OMAM buy the 13% UAP stake held by Centum in effect made centum KES 5.2 billion from that single deal.
How would you reward your analysts if they flipped a loss making investment for 5.2 billion in profit?
If the cadre of analysts you employ can do this for you.. how would you encourage them to do more and better yet remain loyal? ...unlike BRITAM where smart guys felt unappreciated and decided to bounce as a unit of their own?
The bonuses are Ok as a cost of creating shareholder wealth. dividend funds reinvested boost shareholder wealth of entire company.
Centum does what you and I do here. Research and analyse best investment opportunities. but unlike you and I, they have access to billions of capital outlay in form of shareholders' funds. you and I just have our savings...or chama cash to play with.
If you had billions in cash and I helped you make billions more..you would reward me to keep me. way beyond salary. Ask Acorn guys
Thank you for selling.
#HappyInvesting A better way to reward is via ESOP so that they be like shareholders i.e they don't care about cash returns for now but the value increase in their investments over time. Otherwise they sound like contractors not empoyees. “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16 - 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing I am worried about what does not show up in the financials. Refer to CMC offshore accounts, Mumias sugar imports, KQ offshore leases, Meralli deals, Enron SPVs etc Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing I am worried about what does not show up in the financials. Refer to CMC offshore accounts, Mumias sugar imports, KQ offshore leases, Meralli deals, Enron SPVs etc Every single company in the RED has at least 3 years of actual indicators in their financial reports that they will be worse off. see Uchumi, see mumias, see KQ...Infact I did the " kenyan Airways...why ignore.." 5 years ago and shit finally came home to roost. you might try hide stuff but gaps will be evident in books. so far all people are going on about is "1 billion in bonuses to employees"... i never thought analysts make decisions based on a journalist's interpretation of facts. Please point out from financials of Centum what is wrong and we can decide from there. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16 - 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/14/2011 Posts: 857 Location: nairobi
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ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing I am worried about what does not show up in the financials. Refer to CMC offshore accounts, Mumias sugar imports, KQ offshore leases, Meralli deals, Enron SPVs etc Every single company in the RED has at least 3 years of actual indicators in their financial reports that they will be worse off. see Uchumi, see mumias, see KQ...Infact I did the " kenyan Airways...why ignore.." 5 years ago and shit finally came home to roost. you might try hide stuff but gaps will be evident in books. so far all people are going on about is "1 billion in bonuses to employees"... i never thought analysts make decisions based on a journalist's interpretation of facts. Please point out from financials of Centum what is wrong and we can decide from there. how can i get their financials? i tried their website and did not manage to download
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,570
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ProverB wrote:dunkang wrote:ProverB wrote:..UAP Holdings has posted a Sh449 million net loss in its 2015 half year results compared to Sh53.8 million net profit recorded over the same period in 2014...
The employee at centum who closed the deal that saw OMAM buy the 13% UAP stake held by Centum in effect made centum KES 5.2 billion from that single deal.
How would you reward your analysts if they flipped a loss making investment for 5.2 billion in profit?
If the cadre of analysts you employ can do this for you.. how would you encourage them to do more and better yet remain loyal? ...unlike BRITAM where smart guys felt unappreciated and decided to bounce as a unit of their own?
The bonuses are Ok as a cost of creating shareholder wealth. dividend funds reinvested boost shareholder wealth of entire company.
Centum does what you and I do here. Research and analyse best investment opportunities. but unlike you and I, they have access to billions of capital outlay in form of shareholders' funds. you and I just have our savings...or chama cash to play with.
If you had billions in cash and I helped you make billions more..you would reward me to keep me. way beyond salary. Ask Acorn guys
Thank you for selling.
#HappyInvesting And how about the shareholders? Dunkang... compare share value of Centum now to what it was as ICDC 9 years ago with mworia still an intern and the company issuing profit warnings then. Has shareholders' wealth grown or not? Looking at publicly quoted companies, is Centum the best in terms of growing shareholders wealth?? No. The fellows working at Centum, what is their job definition? Increase shareholders wealth! That is what they are paid to do. 8 to 5! And if they increase it by 25% the have hit the target?? Seriously?? That is very easy to do. Even with eyes closed! Especially when dealing with land. Buy a huge piece of land, put tarmacked roads, drainage, street lighting and other amenities and sell the plots at triple the cost. Heck, put up apartments for sale on part of the land. Or sell the land in phases. Phase I - thrice the cost. After people start building, phase II - Double price of phase I - That is six times the cost!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,570
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English is a difficult language. The reporter used the word "earn" erroneously. Centum sold the shares for Kshs. 5.2 Billion. They could therefore not have "Earned" Kshs. 5.2 Billion unless the got the shares free of charge!!! See the highlighted parts above. We have the selling price. You need the buying price to calculate what they earned. It is like @Obiero selling all his KQ shares at Kshs. 1 million and some random reporter writting @Obiero earns Kshs. 1 million by selling his KQ shares yet we all know @Obiero bought those shares at Kshs. 5 million!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing I am worried about what does not show up in the financials. Refer to CMC offshore accounts, Mumias sugar imports, KQ offshore leases, Meralli deals, Enron SPVs etc Every single company in the RED has at least 3 years of actual indicators in their financial reports that they will be worse off. see Uchumi, see mumias, see KQ...Infact I did the " kenyan Airways...why ignore.." 5 years ago and shit finally came home to roost. you might try hide stuff but gaps will be evident in books. so far all people are going on about is "1 billion in bonuses to employees"... i never thought analysts make decisions based on a journalist's interpretation of facts. Please point out from financials of Centum what is wrong and we can decide from there. @ProverB i don't think we are on the same page here. Let me try to explain it slowly but if I fail to make an impression on you, let each of us carry on in our blissful ignorance. Here goes... The company is theoretically a distinct legal person, separate from the owners. However, since a company is inanimate, it has to act through managers (also called directors) who are the strategic drivers. Directors in turn achieve tactical and operational objectives through employees (also known as staff). It is not uncommon for directors to do business with or on behalf of a company with third parties. To protect other owners (shareholders), the directors are supposed to act in the best interests of the company and disclose all dealings with or on behalf of the company especially if they result in a BENEFIT to the director(s). Naturally directors have more control over the affairs and assets of a company than the staff. It is expected that directors will want to reward themselves more than they do the staff. While staff rewards always show up in the financials (unless in cases of theft/fraud by staff), directors rewards will include undisclosed dealings with the company or FOR the company resulting in benefits to the directors. Now to the point... Are Centum directors happy to pay KShs 1B in bonuses to staff while buying into the growth in NAV narrative or are they secretly doing business with and on behalf of the company and making hard cash while other shareholders await dividends after 15 years? Life is short. Live passionately.
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Centum pays out KSH 1 billion to employees
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