And therein lies your problem. Personally I don't have a problem with Islam or Muslims and I would never trash it coz, truthfully, just like Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, it never affects me. I have many friends who follow Islam. To me, it's never a question of us against them. We debate to understand.

Forget Islam here, shall we? I asked what's the relationship between the two children of same mother but fathered by a foster father and his son? Forget Islam please, I have nothing against it.

True Muslims will always defend their prophet..

Ask the crusaders about Muslims and they will shit on themselves in the grave!

I am not a muslim or a christian but in my own view; again I could be wrong; marrying a 9 yr old is somehow twisted. 9 years is young kinda young.

I can see the new line of defense is misuse of emoticons. The insults terrorism are not working. Pole sana.

We are understanding the prophet. The one you call The Prophet.

Zayd was Muhammad's adopted son. Muhammad said before many witnesses at the kaaba:



After this Zayd changed his name to Zayd ibn Muhammad.(Zayd son of Muhammad)

Then Muhammad lusted after Zayd's wife, Zaynab. If we are to follow Jesus' words, we'd say he had commited adultery with Zaynab in his heart.(Matthew 5:27-28)

We will get back to Matthew 5 later on. Many have never understood that portion of scripture. Especially Muslims.

So after lusting after Zaynab, Zayd is unable to further meet his conjugal obligations to her. He never touched her and wanted to divorce her. Muhammad tells him not to but Zayd divorces her anyway.(Zayd was told by Zaynab about some comments made by Muhammad when Muhammad saw Zaynab undressed)

After this, Muhammad faints while talking to another of his wives. He comes back smiling and claims that Allah has given Zaynab to him in marriage!!


It is after this marriage to a divorced wife of his son that Islam abolished adoption! Which is why guru is leading us to split hairs on adoption, fostering etc to cover the sins done then.

Zayd ibn Muhammad reverted to his old name Zayd ibn Harithah after Muhammad received a revelation on adoption AFTER he had taken his son's wife.

question was Moha infallible?

to the rest of the hawks on this forum - who really cares about what some arabic dude did by marrying the son's wife a millennium and a half ago - it may be right or it may be wrong... how is arguing about his bedroom habits adding value here?
We have a very very distorted view of the past! we see the ancients as being rather glorious people, nicely clothed (robes anyone?)
I put it to you that human beings prior to the 17th century we brutish beasts... they didn't live long, they never showered as often, most just pooped outside, they never went to school and thus married early at around 12 years old. they died early check out life expectancy figures of people before the 19th century. they died from myriads of diseases that hail from flu, small pox, polio, they died from broken limbs and poisoning, they died from war wounds, they died from animal attack wounds e.t.c. those people sold black people as slaves, they were primitive people!! primitive people who thought the world was flat and heaven/paradise was in the clouds. While I agree there are SOME things we can learn from the ancients let's not deceive our day today lives are so different from those which those ancients lived that if they were to wake up and see what we have now they will be dumb founded!! People have gone to the moon, people have discovered that the world is a sphere, people have cured many many diseases that ravaged them. people have known weather patterns and can predict drought and stuff like that.. people have grown taller and fatter than what the ancients thought was possible. We have advanced... so stop thinking like people who thought pooping in structures like this was innovative

it's shockingly true that humans prior to the 17th century were brutish beings

-- showering i mean bathing was a communal thing in rivers for most of humanity as plumbing was non existent for the majority. even queens showered i mean bathed once a week or something. the very fact that ceremonial purity before prayer and rituals was commanded was because people never really cleaned themselves! when did people start wiping themselves after going for no. 2?
-- brushing of teeth... have you ever seen a painting with people smiling and teeth showing?
-- toilets...as people decided to be more private they had a small room in the house where they would do their business and throw the remains into a river and some other fellow would collect water from that river to drink down stream

these is not a 'world view' its reality. the same reality as 'people are now driving contraptions called cars'. let's agree people were brutes!! they killed each other frivolously, they died young, they were brutes!!!

@masukuma - They also thought of themselves as advanced.On the inside we're just as human as they were.We love,we hate,we fear,we desire,we harm,we heal...

You have misunderstood brother's post.

"Advanced" is relative. One living in 1798 thought himself more "advanced" than one who lived in 457. Yet certain things remain constant e.g. love, hate, fear, desire etc to this day.

You will not convince the 1798 guy he was just as 'advanced' as the 457 guy, that they were the same. That is why you cannot be absolute that those living before yourself were less 'advanced'.

even our hate, fear, desire, harm ... also advance with time, new technology, new discoveries help in shaping our emotions.