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East Africa's largest economy?
mv_ufanisi
#61 Posted : Sunday, June 08, 2014 11:14:53 PM
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Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
SimonKabz thanks for the pictures. Ethiopian highways make Thika highway look like child's play yet that's what Kenyans are always singing about. The advantage of a communist style leadership is that govt can actually execute on mega projects. So Ethiopia is going to be ahead for quite a while. Any big project in Kenya is going to be stuck in the courts in Kenya because of corruption and super long litigation times. We will eventually have to give it up to the Ethiopians and Tanzanians.
simonkabz
#62 Posted : Sunday, June 08, 2014 11:56:45 PM
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Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
mv_ufanisi wrote:
SimonKabz thanks for the pictures. Ethiopian highways make Thika highway look like child's play yet that's what Kenyans are always singing about. The advantage of a communist style leadership is that govt can actually execute on mega projects. So Ethiopia is going to be ahead for quite a while. Any big project in Kenya is going to be stuck in the courts in Kenya because of corruption and super long litigation times. We will eventually have to give it up to the Ethiopians and Tanzanians.


Reminds me of the Southern By-pass, stuck in court coz of a useless strip of land that is to be hived off the Nairobi National Park. Makes me wonder, of what use is that tiny strip, and in any case, Park ni ya wananchi, barabara ni ya wananchi but some activists wont hear none of that.

Notice the strip to be hived on the edge of the Park, no construction activity at all along the fence......wasting so much valuable time over such nonsense surely. With so much of the civil works already done, I foresee the Government bulldozing on this one, regardless of of the outcome in the courts.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
mkeiy
#63 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 9:31:17 AM
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Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
A people's dictator is what will cure us. Democracy is excruciating slow. We are doing snail pace while others are doing Mach speeds.
Fyatu
#64 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 10:39:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
The more reason we should let jubiree govt. be.
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
justKiwi
#65 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 10:48:20 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 32
simonkabz wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Toshy wrote:
If as the world bank claims, mobile money transactions make up 20% of our GDP and last year we transacted 1.7 trillion ksh (20 billion USD) doesn't that make our GDP closer to 100 billion USD? This means the figure of 40 billion USD being mentioned is a gross underestimate of our economic size.


This finally makes sense. Our GDP is generally much larger than quoted simply because many of the units of activities in our economy are never counted.

Picture this, somewhere in deep Murang'a, a housewife ties a baby to her back and spends the day collecting firewood for boiling Githeri. End result is the family feeds that day, impact on economy is nil coz the household planted the maize and beans used to make the Githeri in their subsistence shamba.

now in the UK, wifey goes to work at the tube and earns 1,500 pounds per month, takes children to a nanny who charges 300 pounds per month, in the evening she buys premade frozen food for more pounds and cooks it with electricity and freezes it with electiricity,

The activities for the UK household are recorded and add to the size of the economy without improving the individuals life while the Kenyans are not recorded and wrongly depress ours.

Trust me if you are middo crass in Kenya, you are missing nothing in this world


I think you hit the nail on the head.


The only miss i think here is;-
1. You have hungry and angry people (no food, bad shelter, etc) around you and who will always see you as source of their problem. Have you ever been in a quarrel with a .... eg a boda boda guy accidentally or willingly hits your car's side mirror? Many of his/her kind, passers-by flock like s....t sucking flies and judgement is against you.
2. Build a maisonette and roads to your homestead and an investor puts 50 mabati singles, 5ft deep latrine next to you.
3. Police and kanjos taking kitu kidogo
4. Bad mannered,selfish, careless and unwise politicians.
5. Bad manned youth (although this is everywhere even in East)
6. The mosquitos
smallfama
#66 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 10:55:17 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/15/2010
Posts: 99
Location: nairobi
This is a nice comparison and good debate. Before we throw fists against each other it is important to know that the devil is always in the details. Some MNCs discovered this after flooding there with the 'free land' enticement et. al. They were later to discover that all foreign exchange inflows have to be converted to the local currency-the Birr. Importing stuff is extremely difficult also. Had a friend who was contracted to start a new flower farm there and he termed it as the most difficult work environment he had ever encountered....well save for their beautiful women. His client had a shortage of plastic buckets and wanted to get them from Kenya and the authorities refused. He sourced them locally thereby creating a local shortage. The multinationals not to be beaten at their games have resorted to transfer pricing; remember the recent case of Sher Karuturi here in Kenya.

Read this article for further knowledge

http://www.economist.com...omic-models-doing-it-my

And watch the following videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvVb9EZ6Kqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt22chvx_yQ

It is a typical scramble for Africa. Seems it is their time to be colonised.
murchr
#67 Posted : Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:15:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
GNI PPP Per Capita

Kenya - $930

Ethiopia - $470

Tanzania - $630

Uganda - $510

Rwanda - $620

Burundi - $280

Sourh Sudan - $1,120

Per the World Bank Latest Data
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#68 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:07:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
masukuma wrote:
so.... Tokyo's GDP in 2007 was estimated to be 1.9 trillion dollars! on the other hand Africa's collective GDP in 2011 was 1.88 trillion dollars. This whole debate is about the taller dwarf!! Ethiopia is a taller dwarf! but we are all dwarfs!!


This is the kind of nonsense mathematics that flies in the face of logic, @masukuma, do you believe that Tokyo is a larger economy than Africa. Hell you can even throw in the whole of Japan. If you were offered a choice of either Africa or Tokyo/Japan, what would you go for. Think the recent rebasing of the Nigerian economy, think the minerals lying underneath the Congo, think the Congo forest, think the beaches of East Africa, think the oil offshore west and southern Africa, think the Pyramids in Egypt, think the 1 billion man market.

And yes, Ethiopia is damn impressive but as long as development is govt driven, the people will never trully benefit. Offering land to foreigners is nonsense. Having said that, Kenyans need to up their game, especially on governance
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
murchr
#69 Posted : Sunday, July 27, 2014 5:46:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mnandii
#70 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 12:59:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so.... Tokyo's GDP in 2007 was estimated to be 1.9 trillion dollars! on the other hand Africa's collective GDP in 2011 was 1.88 trillion dollars. This whole debate is about the taller dwarf!! Ethiopia is a taller dwarf! but we are all dwarfs!!


This is the kind of nonsense mathematics that flies in the face of logic, @masukuma, do you believe that Tokyo is a larger economy than Africa. Hell you can even throw in the whole of Japan. If you were offered a choice of either Africa or Tokyo/Japan, what would you go for. Think the recent rebasing of the Nigerian economy, think the minerals lying underneath the Congo, think the Congo forest, think the beaches of East Africa, think the oil offshore west and southern Africa, think the Pyramids in Egypt, think the 1 billion man market.

And yes, Ethiopia is damn impressive but as long as development is govt driven, the people will never trully benefit. Offering land to foreigners is nonsense. Having said that, Kenyans need to up their game, especially on governance

Word!
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mnandii
#71 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 1:06:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
mkeiy wrote:
A people's dictator is what will cure us. Democracy is excruciating slow. We are doing snail pace while others are doing Mach speeds.

Actually less of government is what will cure us. Meaningful development is always driven by the private sector. Compare for example safaricom vs telkom.

Less of government means less of taxes, less of bureaucracy, less of 'laws and regulations'.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
murchr
#72 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 1:17:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
mnandii wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so.... Tokyo's GDP in 2007 was estimated to be 1.9 trillion dollars! on the other hand Africa's collective GDP in 2011 was 1.88 trillion dollars. This whole debate is about the taller dwarf!! Ethiopia is a taller dwarf! but we are all dwarfs!!


This is the kind of nonsense mathematics that flies in the face of logic, @masukuma, do you believe that Tokyo is a larger economy than Africa. Hell you can even throw in the whole of Japan. If you were offered a choice of either Africa or Tokyo/Japan, what would you go for. Think the recent rebasing of the Nigerian economy, think the minerals lying underneath the Congo, think the Congo forest, think the beaches of East Africa, think the oil offshore west and southern Africa, think the Pyramids in Egypt, think the 1 billion man market.

And yes, Ethiopia is damn impressive but as long as development is govt driven, the people will never trully benefit. Offering land to foreigners is nonsense. Having said that, Kenyans need to up their game, especially on governance


Word!


Its working in China, why shouldn't it work elsewhere? GOK ons 30% Telkom 40% Safcom. Incompetence brought down Telkom.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mibbz
#73 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 2:58:29 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/18/2011
Posts: 448
Very interesting debates on economy.Allow me to share a podcast i listened to recently,its titled Emerging Africa by Kingsley Chiedu,the current deputy governor of Central Bank of Nigeria.He delivered it at LSE during a LSE Africa talk.Informative,Incisive & quite enlightening and covers some debates highlighted in the thread

http://www.lse.ac.uk/new...ents/player.aspx?id=2562
real cindano
#74 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 10:40:51 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/1/2010
Posts: 87
Location: Zimbalabala
[quote=mibbz]Very interesting debates on economy.Allow me to share a podcast i listened to recently,its titled Emerging Africa by Kingsley Chiedu,the current deputy governor of Central Bank of Nigeria.He delivered it at LSE during a LSE Africa talk.Informative,Incisive & quite enlightening and covers some debates highlighted in the thread

http://www.lse.ac.uk/new...nts/player.aspx?id=2562[/quote]

Boss si you summarize what was on the podcast we all don't have time to listen to chinedu the drug dealer.
mnandii
#75 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 1:01:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
murchr wrote:
mnandii wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so.... Tokyo's GDP in 2007 was estimated to be 1.9 trillion dollars! on the other hand Africa's collective GDP in 2011 was 1.88 trillion dollars. This whole debate is about the taller dwarf!! Ethiopia is a taller dwarf! but we are all dwarfs!!


This is the kind of nonsense mathematics that flies in the face of logic, @masukuma, do you believe that Tokyo is a larger economy than Africa. Hell you can even throw in the whole of Japan. If you were offered a choice of either Africa or Tokyo/Japan, what would you go for. Think the recent rebasing of the Nigerian economy, think the minerals lying underneath the Congo, think the Congo forest, think the beaches of East Africa, think the oil offshore west and southern Africa, think the Pyramids in Egypt, think the 1 billion man market.

And yes, Ethiopia is damn impressive but as long as development is govt driven, the people will never trully benefit. Offering land to foreigners is nonsense. Having said that, Kenyans need to up their game, especially on governance


Word!


Its working in China, why shouldn't it work elsewhere? GOK ons 30% Telkom 40% Safcom. Incompetence brought down Telkom.


China changed to a capitalist system. On the issue of telkom vs safcom, it is the management that matters i.e the team that makes decisions is allowed to do so without bureaucracy e.g consulting the minister for example.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
murchr
#76 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 3:19:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
mnandii wrote:
murchr wrote:
mnandii wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so.... Tokyo's GDP in 2007 was estimated to be 1.9 trillion dollars! on the other hand Africa's collective GDP in 2011 was 1.88 trillion dollars. This whole debate is about the taller dwarf!! Ethiopia is a taller dwarf! but we are all dwarfs!!


This is the kind of nonsense mathematics that flies in the face of logic, @masukuma, do you believe that Tokyo is a larger economy than Africa. Hell you can even throw in the whole of Japan. If you were offered a choice of either Africa or Tokyo/Japan, what would you go for. Think the recent rebasing of the Nigerian economy, think the minerals lying underneath the Congo, think the Congo forest, think the beaches of East Africa, think the oil offshore west and southern Africa, think the Pyramids in Egypt, think the 1 billion man market.

And yes, Ethiopia is damn impressive but as long as development is govt driven, the people will never trully benefit. Offering land to foreigners is nonsense. Having said that, Kenyans need to up their game, especially on governance


Word!


Its working in China, why shouldn't it work elsewhere? GOK ons 30% Telkom 40% Safcom. Incompetence brought down Telkom.


China changed to a capitalist system. On the issue of telkom vs safcom, it is the management that matters i.e the team that makes decisions is allowed to do so without bureaucracy e.g consulting the minister for example.


Lets avoid the capitalism vs communism theorem for a moment. That debate is usually propagated by the west to kinda glorify capitalism/demoncracy. Anyway. China is still very govt controled all major sectors of the economy be it financial to industrial have a very strong govt participation, infact if you are to look at the companies that have expanded out of china, the (MNCs),they are largely govt controlled. And so is Ethiopia.

Chinas growth was realized when americans went in to take advantage of the cheap resources- labor in particular, and now the Chinese are going to Ethiopia to take advantage of cheap resources - labor and land. Even DJ CK is investing big in ET.

http://www.businessweek....-vanishing-factory-jobs
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
webish
#77 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 671
Location: Nairobi
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so.... Tokyo's GDP in 2007 was estimated to be 1.9 trillion dollars! on the other hand Africa's collective GDP in 2011 was 1.88 trillion dollars. This whole debate is about the taller dwarf!! Ethiopia is a taller dwarf! but we are all dwarfs!!


This is the kind of nonsense mathematics that flies in the face of logic, @masukuma, do you believe that Tokyo is a larger economy than Africa. Hell you can even throw in the whole of Japan. If you were offered a choice of either Africa or Tokyo/Japan, what would you go for. Think the recent rebasing of the Nigerian economy, think the minerals lying underneath the Congo, think the Congo forest, think the beaches of East Africa, think the oil offshore west and southern Africa, think the Pyramids in Egypt, think the 1 billion man market.

And yes, Ethiopia is damn impressive but as long as development is govt driven, the people will never trully benefit. Offering land to foreigners is nonsense. Having said that, Kenyans need to up their game, especially on governance


Applause Applause

Life is joy, death is peace, but the transition is very difficult.
innairobi
#78 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 8:49:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 845
Africa and Kenya specifically is undermeasured. One Harvard study suggested that the informal economy in poor developing countries is 30-40% of formal GDP -> http://scholar.harvard.e...lity_may27_abstract.pdf

I would add:
1. Extensive corruption is synonymous with a large black market, underground economy and tax evasion. Corruption is a big problem in Kenya.
2. Though there are other factors involved, the growth of bank assets sometimes seems inconsistent with GDP growth. Tanzania GDP grew by 7% last year and bank assets increased by 15%. Kenya grew by 4.7% but in-country bank assets increased by 16%.



Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
masukuma wrote:
so.... Tokyo's GDP in 2007 was estimated to be 1.9 trillion dollars! on the other hand Africa's collective GDP in 2011 was 1.88 trillion dollars. This whole debate is about the taller dwarf!! Ethiopia is a taller dwarf! but we are all dwarfs!!


This is the kind of nonsense mathematics that flies in the face of logic, @masukuma, do you believe that Tokyo is a larger economy than Africa. Hell you can even throw in the whole of Japan. If you were offered a choice of either Africa or Tokyo/Japan, what would you go for. Think the recent rebasing of the Nigerian economy, think the minerals lying underneath the Congo, think the Congo forest, think the beaches of East Africa, think the oil offshore west and southern Africa, think the Pyramids in Egypt, think the 1 billion man market.

And yes, Ethiopia is damn impressive but as long as development is govt driven, the people will never trully benefit. Offering land to foreigners is nonsense. Having said that, Kenyans need to up their game, especially on governance

All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
murchr
#79 Posted : Sunday, February 15, 2015 5:10:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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