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Mt Kenya University starts medical school
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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jaggernaut wrote:Bigchick wrote:jguru wrote:Which hospital is MKU using for training medical students? With the billions they have so far charged in fees, do they plan to build their own teaching hospital or their grandiose plan is to use Thika Level 5 Hospital to teach undergraduate medicine and surgery for 6 years? The Medical Board declined to register medical students from Kenyatta University, the same might happen to MKU, Egerton, KEMU and Maseno who recently started teaching medicine. It's all about the 500k+ in school fees that parallel medicine students pay for tuition. Nothing about churning quality well-trained doctors.  @jguru....They intend to use the Thika Level 5.They are already in the process of upgrading the facility.Wards and mortuary. Rumour has it the trainers will be from US and India. As for the Med Board.......they knew the mentioned Unis were offerring the courses, so why not stop them before they enroll students instead of waiting for them to train then deny them registration? Trust me eventually they will have to register them so long as they are qualified. The engineers board learnt the hard way... RINKQuote:The Engineers Registration Board of Kenya has been directed by the High court to pay ten thousand university graduates Sh200,000 each for failing to register engineering graduates from the Egerton and Masinde Muliro Universities.
Justice David Majanja gave the ruling ending a row between ERB and the affected universities. The Higher Education Ministry and Commission for Higher Education were enjoined in the case that saw the graduates denied recognition by the professional engineering board.
“The graduates have done no wrong, they had a legitimate expectation that upon completion of their degrees, they will be registered and look for employment. This right has been breached by the ERB which declined to register then,” said Majanja in his ruling.
The judge proceeded to award each affected student a sum of Sh200,000 for loss of opportunity to secure employment as a result of the tussle with ERB. This is great news. It was absolute insanity by ERB. Those idiots should have been jailed! TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/9/2011 Posts: 730 Location: Nairobi
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urstill wrote:kiterunner wrote:urstill wrote:For Sport wrote:jaggernaut wrote:I do not see any problem as long as the university has the professors to teach, has the facilities, and is certified by the commission for higher education and the doctors body. Prof Stanley Waudo, the VC, who is formerly of UoN, seems to be steering the uni very well. They recently recruited 100 professors which is a good move to strengthen the human resource. I also remember someone saying that they have better pay than public unis and so have been able to attract quality staff. The Star: Mt Kenya university staff boost 100 professors or 100 lecturers / teaching staff? No institution has anything close to 100 professors in Africa(maybe the whole world, I'm yet to confirm that) If you read the article, you will see the breakdown i.e, 20 professors (i suspect including associate profs) and other teaching staff. I think UoN may have over 100 profs, University of Cape Town has many more Link? Not very many lecturers have a doctorate degree and those who have very few have completed post-doctoral fellowship, which is a minimum requirement for assistant professorship. I do not even think there is an institution offering post-doctoral fellowship in Africa except for a selected few in SA. PS: Associate professor is a level above assistant one. The Kenyan University system is unique as it does not recognise postdocs officially. Here they dont do postdoc you just hop through the following posts with approximately 3-4 years at each post. 1. Tutorial Fellow 2. Ass. lecturer 3. Lecturer(PhD) 4. Seniour lecturer (PhD) 5. Ass Prof (PhD) 6. Prof (PhD) For the top half of the ladder you are required to have published a book chapter or 3 academic research articles and supervise a couple of PhD and masters students. In short its a system that rewards how long you have been around Postdocs are offered by some universities in Africa (I know SA and Ghana). In Kenya research instituitions like KEMRI, ICIPE ... have postdoc positions as well. our goals are best achieved indirectly
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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jaggernaut wrote:Njung'e wrote:BGL wrote:I hear to enrol for a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery at MKU, all you need is a C+  They should rename the course "Bachelor of Medicine and Slaughter". This is how the public universities in the US were laughing at Harvard (a private uni), when it started offering law and other courses. @jaggernaut, in the spirit of new year, would you be kind enough to withdraw the above factually incorrect statement. Harvard university is actually recorded as the oldest university in the USA. The oldest public university, the university of Georgia, came 100 years later. That said, I wish wazuans who are lecturers can take charge of this thread. I have many lecturer friends and they always warn me of three private university whose quality is crap. They are PUEA, KEMU and MKU. They talk very highly of Strathmore, CUEA and Daystar.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:jaggernaut wrote:Njung'e wrote:BGL wrote:I hear to enrol for a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery at MKU, all you need is a C+ They should rename the course "Bachelor of Medicine and Slaughter". This is how the public universities in the US were laughing at Harvard (a private uni), when it started offering law and other courses. @jaggernaut, in the spirit of new year, would you be kind enough to withdraw the above factually incorrect statement. Harvard university is actually recorded as the oldest university in the USA. The oldest public university, the university of Georgia, came 100 years later. That said, I wish wazuans who are lecturers can take charge of this thread. I have many lecturer friends and they always warn me of three private university whose quality is crap. They are PUEA, KEMU and MKU. They talk very highly of Strathmore, CUEA and Daystar. WORD!!!!!......mbiashara tu kwa zingine, you get worried when somebody with a master from Kampala Intnl University....the disgraced uni of Uganda is a lecturer in some of these universities....baggage in, baggage out!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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FRM2011 wrote:jaggernaut wrote:Njung'e wrote:BGL wrote:I hear to enrol for a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery at MKU, all you need is a C+ They should rename the course "Bachelor of Medicine and Slaughter". This is how the public universities in the US were laughing at Harvard (a private uni), when it started offering law and other courses. @jaggernaut, in the spirit of new year, would you be kind enough to withdraw the above factually incorrect statement. Harvard university is actually recorded as the oldest university in the USA. The oldest public university, the university of Georgia, came 100 years later. That said, I wish wazuans who are lecturers can take charge of this thread. I have many lecturer friends and they always warn me of three private university whose quality is crap. They are PUEA, KEMU and MKU. They talk very highly of Strathmore, CUEA and Daystar. The above was a figurative statement meant to highlight that private unis can excel in what they embark to do. The statement wasn't meant to be interrogated to confirm if it's factually correct. It was meant to counter those who were ridiculing MKU's efforts and vision.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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jaggernaut wrote:FRM2011 wrote:jaggernaut wrote:Njung'e wrote:BGL wrote:I hear to enrol for a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery at MKU, all you need is a C+ They should rename the course "Bachelor of Medicine and Slaughter". This is how the public universities in the US were laughing at Harvard (a private uni), when it started offering law and other courses. @jaggernaut, in the spirit of new year, would you be kind enough to withdraw the above factually incorrect statement. Harvard university is actually recorded as the oldest university in the USA. The oldest public university, the university of Georgia, came 100 years later. That said, I wish wazuans who are lecturers can take charge of this thread. I have many lecturer friends and they always warn me of three private university whose quality is crap. They are PUEA, KEMU and MKU. They talk very highly of Strathmore, CUEA and Daystar. The above was a figurative statement meant to highlight that private unis can excel in what they embark to do. The statement wasn't meant to make anyone rush to wikipedia to confirm if it's factually correct. It was a figure of speech meant to counter those who were ridiculing MKU's efforts and vision.  , eti this is a figure of speech, best joke I have today as we close the year!! Quote:This is how the public universities in the US were laughing at Harvard (a private uni), when it started offering law and other courses ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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This university maneno is becoming trickier by the day. Even public unis are having quackish tendencies. Maseno university's campus on Moi Ave Nairobi is an example. The fee structures for different programmes are displayed on the street like Mama Shiro's cafe does with their menu.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/8/2013 Posts: 4,068 Location: At Large.
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Lolest! wrote:This university maneno is becoming trickier by the day. Even public unis are having quackish tendencies. Maseno university's campus on Moi Ave Nairobi is an example. The fee structures for different programmes are displayed on the street like Mama Shiro's cafe does with their menu. Yes.Its marketing for clients. And fees is a consideration when choosing a course and the Uni to go to. Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Bigchick wrote:Lolest! wrote:This university maneno is becoming trickier by the day. Even public unis are having quackish tendencies. Maseno university's campus on Moi Ave Nairobi is an example. The fee structures for different programmes are displayed on the street like Mama Shiro's cafe does with their menu. Yes.Its marketing for clients. And fees is a consideration when choosing a course and the Uni to go to. surely, fee structure kwa street?? Talk of retailing degrees! Then we have these degrees mostly by JKUAT but taught in private institutions. Most of those private colleges do not have funds for the right staff. They hire anyone with the slightest knowledge of the subject...don't blame the students.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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The Clown wrote:Kenya has a serious shortage fo doctors, so I think MKU starting a medical school is a good thing. It is obvious they are doing it for the money but hey, it's not a charity that they're running.
Where we fail is in regulation of standards at universities. In an ideal world, the Commission for University Education and the Medical Board would ensure that medical graduates from different universities had comparable training. In this way, a patient would feel in safe hands regardless of where the doctor trained. The Board appears to fail in regulation because most new UNIs do not involve the MPDB while developing a curricula for medical students. And there is a lot of resistance from these medical schools when the MPDB requests for an audit of their facilities or training methods. Often, CHE approves these schools after being "compromised" or "coerced by powers that be" and forces the MPDB to accredit them as medical schools. Quality control becomes controversial from then on. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Bigchick wrote:jguru wrote:Which hospital is MKU using for training medical students? With the billions they have so far charged in fees, do they plan to build their own teaching hospital or their grandiose plan is to use Thika Level 5 Hospital to teach undergraduate medicine and surgery for 6 years? The Medical Board declined to register medical students from Kenyatta University, the same might happen to MKU, Egerton, KEMU and Maseno who recently started teaching medicine. It's all about the 500k+ in school fees that parallel medicine students pay for tuition. Nothing about churning quality well-trained doctors. @jguru....They intend to use the Thika Level 5.They are already in the process of upgrading the facility.Wards and mortuary. Rumour has it the trainers will be from US and India. As for the Med Board.......they knew the mentioned Unis were offerring the courses, so why not stop them before they enroll students instead of waiting for them to train then deny them registration? Trust me eventually they will have to register them so long as they are qualified. The idea that a medical doctor from MKU will be at par in skills and knowledge with a medical doctor from UON/MOI is a delusion. Thika Level 5 Hospital will need considerable structural development to become a model training institution for doctors. If it already has significant challenges training nurses (KMTC) and COs (KMTC, MKU, Thika Technical, JKUAT), suffice to say, it will have an insurmountable task of training doctors. Where will MKU get the specialist doctors (Master's degrees) to train these doctors from? No lecturer or Prof will leave UON/MOI to come and train at MKU. 1. They will not afford him; 2. The vast array of cases he would teach with are available only at a referral hospital (Thika has a medicine ward with 30F and 30M patients; KNH has 8 medicine wards with approx 100 patients each); 3. The academically good KCSE students will choose UON/MOI over MKU anytime; 4. The ability to attract grants/research funds is far greater at UON/MOI than at MKU; 5. Proximity to their private clinics. That is why the Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board is introducing Board Exams for these students. Similar exams are taken by doctors who study in foreign universities (TZ, KIU, Makerere, Russia, India, Carribean, SA etc) who intend to do internship at Kenyan hospitals or who need licenses to practice medicine in Kenya. So despite having trained in a local medical school they will still need to pass a specialised and intensive board exam since the quality of their training cannot be assured. Most will not pass that exam. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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murchr wrote:Clinical officers in our dispensaries are better than the so called docs we see around yet we all know they got Cs so A+ is nothing really...many of these people passed Maths, Bio and Chem but failed in Ksw Hist/Geo etc hence the lower grade. If someone has a passion in medicine then nothing should stop him/her from going after their dream That is absolutely not true! Most COs are a joke. I wouldn't let one near my family or friends. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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most nurses and clinical officers easily step in the doctors roles in most hospitals around the country, there is nothing much when it comes to gp's and the qualifications - kmtc can as well train doctors.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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jguru wrote:murchr wrote:Clinical officers in our dispensaries are better than the so called docs we see around yet we all know they got Cs so A+ is nothing really...many of these people passed Maths, Bio and Chem but failed in Ksw Hist/Geo etc hence the lower grade. If someone has a passion in medicine then nothing should stop him/her from going after their dream That is absolutely not true! Most COs are a joke. I wouldn't let one near my family or friends. you should pay a visit to the public hospitals that deal with the majority of health matters around the country.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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nakujua wrote:most nurses and clinical officers easily step in the doctors roles in most hospitals around the country, there is nothing much when it comes to gp's and the qualifications - kmtc can as well train doctors.
I'm waiting for the day when I'll see a nurse or a CO doing a caesarian section or a laparatomy. A CO would fit in no other health care system in the world except the Kenyan one. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/16/2010 Posts: 158 Location: world
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And please guys stop this lie that Kenyan C students go to serious Indian Medical Colleges to study Medicine. India has one of the most competitive entrance examinations for the Medical School and that is why the Indians make some of the best doctors in the world. Of course they also have quack medical schools which will take anybody who wants to pay for it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/8/2013 Posts: 4,068 Location: At Large.
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jguru wrote:Bigchick wrote:jguru wrote:Which hospital is MKU using for training medical students? With the billions they have so far charged in fees, do they plan to build their own teaching hospital or their grandiose plan is to use Thika Level 5 Hospital to teach undergraduate medicine and surgery for 6 years? The Medical Board declined to register medical students from Kenyatta University, the same might happen to MKU, Egerton, KEMU and Maseno who recently started teaching medicine. It's all about the 500k+ in school fees that parallel medicine students pay for tuition. Nothing about churning quality well-trained doctors. @jguru....They intend to use the Thika Level 5.They are already in the process of upgrading the facility.Wards and mortuary. Rumour has it the trainers will be from US and India. As for the Med Board.......they knew the mentioned Unis were offerring the courses, so why not stop them before they enroll students instead of waiting for them to train then deny them registration? Trust me eventually they will have to register them so long as they are qualified. The idea that a medical doctor from MKU will be at par in skills and knowledge with a medical doctor from UON/MOI is a delusion. Thika Level 5 Hospital will need considerable structural development to become a model training institution for doctors. If it already has significant challenges training nurses (KMTC) and COs (KMTC, MKU, Thika Technical, JKUAT), suffice to say, it will have an insurmountable task of training doctors. Where will MKU get the specialist doctors (Master's degrees) to train these doctors from? No lecturer or Prof will leave UON/MOI to come and train at MKU. 1. They will not afford him; 2. The vast array of cases he would teach with are available only at a referral hospital (Thika has a medicine ward with 30F and 30M patients; KNH has 8 medicine wards with approx 100 patients each); 3. The academically good KCSE students will choose UON/MOI over MKU anytime; 4. The ability to attract grants/research funds is far greater at UON/MOI than at MKU; 5. Proximity to their private clinics. That is why the Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board is introducing Board Exams for these students. Similar exams are taken by doctors who study in foreign universities (TZ, KIU, Makerere, Russia, India, Carribean, SA etc) who intend to do internship at Kenyan hospitals or who need licenses to practice medicine in Kenya. So despite having trained in a local medical school they will still need to pass a specialised and intensive board exam since the quality of their training cannot be assured. Most will not pass that exam. @jguru.....am certain you are not the only one seeing the challenges you havr mentioned.Gicharu and Co must be aware of them and have a way out. Am glad to note that the medical board will administer some exams.At lea Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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nakujua wrote:jguru wrote:murchr wrote:Clinical officers in our dispensaries are better than the so called docs we see around yet we all know they got Cs so A+ is nothing really...many of these people passed Maths, Bio and Chem but failed in Ksw Hist/Geo etc hence the lower grade. If someone has a passion in medicine then nothing should stop him/her from going after their dream That is absolutely not true! Most COs are a joke. I wouldn't let one near my family or friends. you should pay a visit to the public hospitals that deal with the majority of health matters around the country. It is my experience with public hospitals that drives me to that conclusion. A CO once saw a pregnant lady whose placenta had separated from the uterine wall and was bleeding. The CO decided it was a urinary tract infection, prescribed brufen, doxycycline (contra-indicated in pregnancy) and metronidazole and sent the lady home! The lady came back at 2am, in shock. She was O-Neg and after several hospitals were called, only Nyeri and KNH had O-Neg blood. The outcome of referring or operating was prognostically similar. A CS was done, the baby was still-born, the mother died due to hypovolemia. The CO had not signed his clinical notes, but if we ever found him/her, we would have sued him/her in a court of law. A term mother-to-be with bleeding is a maternity case every day of the week! An this is but one of such tragic cases involving COs. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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jguru wrote:nakujua wrote:most nurses and clinical officers easily step in the doctors roles in most hospitals around the country, there is nothing much when it comes to gp's and the qualifications - kmtc can as well train doctors.
I'm waiting for the day when I'll see a nurse or a CO doing a caesarian section or a laparatomy. A CO would fit in no other health care system in the world except the Kenyan one. You will probably never see a nurse or a CO perform the procedures - though not sure but I have a feeling the graduate nurses might be trained in emergency Cesarian procedures. CO's would probably fit in a more qualified paramedics role in the west. the position was created to bridge the need for specialized medical personnel in the country due to the lack of doctors. Anyway, a bigger percentage of health issues do not involve caesarian sections or a laparatomy - either way I doubt if most gp in the country can perform the said procedures. Those are meant for more specialized personnel.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,554
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There has been a tendency to create a "monopoly of knowledge/know-how/wealth", particularly centered around words like "The", "Public","parallel" "Quality of education", "amesomea India" yet there is no proof of this "better quality" in the kiwanja,...it is just politics to try control the gravy train through education, shauri yenu, the pipes are being cut loose ....hiii yote ni ujinga tupu! If BBA or BCOM could teach you how to do biathara, malaya wote wange soma hio, Let the CHE do it's job. Meru Holiness
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