Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
If you can't plant a seed, no prayers/blessings..
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
danas10 wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc or better still, talk to yourself through a mirror...works for me  Naked? 
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
tycho wrote:quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:Much Know wrote:kysse wrote:
Christian's must understand that not every problem is spiritual or requires a spiritual intervention.
 Excellent point in my view, and it should apply to all and not Christians alone! What are some of these things that aren't spiritual? And if they aren't spiritual what are they? Corporeal, environmental, legal ....just to mention a few. You fall sick because a fellow with a cold sneezed in your face. What you do next is go see a doctor. If you havent paid tax and KRA catches you (even if you didn't know) you will be in trouble, you need a tax accountant first then the priest second. What happened to people using the hands and brains that were given to them...if God didn't intend us to meet challenges and try to resolve them, why kick Adam and Eve out of the happy garden? You can't eat, marry or spend spirituality. In fact one could argue spirituality follows naturally if these other small things balance out somehow. Curious indeed. Others believe the converse. Between God and Money and 'economic savvy' they choose God; and they know that in finding God they find everything else.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 10/8/2010 Posts: 763 Location: Intersection
|
symbols wrote:danas10 wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc or better still, talk to yourself through a mirror...works for me Naked? even better
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
Tokyo wrote:No shortcut to prosperity - only hardwork I wonder what hard work means. It has no meaning really. If there's anything like 'prosperity' then it works to create 'poverty'.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 2/7/2013 Posts: 447 Location: Nairobi
|
tycho wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc Why shouldn't a counselor con a person? Besides, what counsel can one give to the poor? 'Get an education'? 'Be frugal'? Where does counsel come from? I assume a counselor is more like a doctor...when am sick I go to the doctor..I pay consultation fees...sometimes talking works... You cant win, unless you first begin....
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 2/7/2013 Posts: 447 Location: Nairobi
|
danas10 wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc or better still, talk to yourself through a mirror...works for me mmmmh that too...and if I think God is listening I tell Him to listen too... You cant win, unless you first begin....
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc Why shouldn't a counselor con a person? Besides, what counsel can one give to the poor? 'Get an education'? 'Be frugal'? Where does counsel come from? I assume a counselor is more like a doctor...when am sick I go to the doctor..I pay consultation fees...sometimes talking works... So how's this different from 'planting a seed'?
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
|
tycho wrote:Tokyo wrote:No shortcut to prosperity - only hardwork I wonder what hard work means. It has no meaning really.If there's anything like 'prosperity' then it works to create 'poverty'. You are splitting hairs ...you have claimed before to be partial to poetry, which is usually rich with indirect speech and layered meaning, yet this, which in general context is almost universally understood, you claim incomprehension.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
|
symbols wrote:danas10 wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc or better still, talk to yourself through a mirror...works for me Naked? And see the devil? tycho?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
kysse wrote:symbols wrote:danas10 wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc or better still, talk to yourself through a mirror...works for me Naked? And see the devil? tycho? Monster
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:Tokyo wrote:No shortcut to prosperity - only hardwork I wonder what hard work means. It has no meaning really.If there's anything like 'prosperity' then it works to create 'poverty'. You are splitting hairs ...you have claimed before to be partial to poetry, which is usually rich with indirect speech and layered meaning, yet this, which in general context is almost universally understood, you claim incomprehension. Not really @quicksand. If we say the expression has a universal meaning, then the many poor and languishing people not only know what it means, but they also practice it. But how many prosper? The gap between the rich and the poor keeps on growing instead. 'Hard work' is a decoy.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 2/7/2013 Posts: 447 Location: Nairobi
|
tycho wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc Why shouldn't a counselor con a person? Besides, what counsel can one give to the poor? 'Get an education'? 'Be frugal'? Where does counsel come from? I assume a counselor is more like a doctor...when am sick I go to the doctor..I pay consultation fees...sometimes talking works... So how's this different from 'planting a seed'? Not sure if two are related, but counseling will only me going to talk to an expert on my problems...even though I know there is no better counselor/s than a bunch of girlfriends and unleash... You cant win, unless you first begin....
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
|
Quote:[quote=tycho]
Why shouldn't a counselor con a person?
Besides, what counsel can one give to the poor? 'Get an education'? 'Be frugal'?
Where does counsel come from?
So how's this different from 'planting a seed'?
Tycho I think there's a difference btwn a counsellor and a pastor.While one is a calling the other is a career. Not all pastors can counsel people because some lack the knowledge and wisdom to deal with real life issues.They resolve to slapping believers with scriptures in the hope that their solutions will automatically disappear by faith. Freely you have received,freely give, that's how the gospel should run. Tithes/offerings are commanded by God to help ministries.Anything beyond that is a reap off. -seed for breakthrough -seed for prosperity -seed for promotion -seed for having kids -seed for getting husband/wife -seed for passing exams etc How different is this from those mganga kutoka tz adverts? It's witchcraft and ways of accumulating funds to buy pastor the latest car to take him on 'missions' in far places.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Meduza wrote:tycho wrote:Would one rather be conned off her soul than her money?
And why do we think that the poor are wrong in believing that they can only make money via miracles and prayers?
I fear that the poor and 'common folk' are between a very tight vice. Maybe most of us are already lost. For example, now even the trusted churches are in a desperate struggle of ideas given the challenges of a delogocentralized world. How does the individual shape his spirituality? Will one cling to the Pope's robes? Or the 'doctrine'?
Many are conning themselves off their lives by blindly clinging to institutions, leave alone their hard earned cash.
The problem is when you are in problem...especially in our poor country...no one ever talks to a counselor....everyone will tell you to see a 'pastor'. That's the catch. If we got to the routine of talking to counselors then we would be better off. The pastors would not take advantage of our situations. We would seek spiritual help and an addition and in a mature way. The pastors know and have researched and so call out based on the typical problems...Marital problems, HIV and other sicknesses, lack of spouses, lack of children in a marriage, jobs..etc Why shouldn't a counselor con a person? Besides, what counsel can one give to the poor? 'Get an education'? 'Be frugal'? Where does counsel come from? I assume a counselor is more like a doctor...when am sick I go to the doctor..I pay consultation fees...sometimes talking works... So how's this different from 'planting a seed'? Not sure if two are related, but counseling will only me going to talk to an expert on my problems...even though I know there is no better counselor/s than a bunch of girlfriends and unleash... A counselor will hardly take care of demons or witchcraft. Many believe in these and have a right to seek relevant experts, and pay them.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
kysse wrote:Quote:[quote=tycho]
Why shouldn't a counselor con a person?
Besides, what counsel can one give to the poor? 'Get an education'? 'Be frugal'?
Where does counsel come from?
So how's this different from 'planting a seed'?
Tycho I think there's a difference btwn a counsellor and a pastor.While one is a calling the other is a career. Not all pastors can counsel people because some lack the knowledge and wisdom to deal with real life issues.They resolve to slapping believers with scriptures in the hope that their solutions will automatically disappear by faith. Freely you have received,freely give, that's how the gospel should run. Tithes/offerings are commanded by God to help ministries.Anything beyond that is a reap off. -seed for breakthrough -seed for prosperity -seed for promotion -seed for having kids -seed for getting husband/wife -seed for passing exams etc How different is this from those mganga kutoka tz adverts? It's witchcraft and ways of accumulating funds to buy pastor the latest car to take him on 'missions' in far places. Which one is the calling, and which is the career? Religious expression and ritual is not tightly restricted. There's always room for new forms of expression and one can hardly state any rules. This seed planting may be a way of showing worth and nurturing fervency of expectation! Religious expression often takes such forms. It's no different from the wagangas, and wagangas have always been there. Why?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
|
Professional counselling for money is a career. Everybody including you must have counselled somebody, but not as a career. There's some level of counselling which requires expertise,follow up exercises and medication. Ministries like pastoring is a calling. Rules are given in the bible but many fail to adhere to them. Quote:This seed planting may be a way of showing worth and nurturing fervency of expectation!
and that is how witchcraft works,psyching up people. You cannot put monetary value to the word of God.Never! It's written not bought,it becomes life when spoken, hence cannot be bought. The True Gospel is about faith,take your needs to God in prayers and rest assured that He will answer-YES/NO/WAIT. We give seed cz we expect a YES always,trying to twist God's arm? Why do we bribe God with seed to speed up answers? God is never pleased or moved by offerings/tithes but by the state of a man's heart. You wanna move God? give him a contrite and a broken spirit,He will not despise. Anything else is an abomination.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
kysse wrote:Professional counselling for money is a career. Everybody including you must have counselled somebody, but not as a career. There's some level of counselling which requires expertise,follow up exercises and medication. Ministries like pastoring is a calling. Rules are given in the bible but many fail to adhere to them. Quote:This seed planting may be a way of showing worth and nurturing fervency of expectation!
and that is how witchcraft works,psyching up people. You cannot put monetary value to the word of God.Never! It's written not bought,it becomes life when spoken, hence cannot be bought. The True Gospel is about faith,take your needs to God in prayers and rest assured that He will answer-YES/NO/WAIT. We give seed cz we expect a YES always,trying to twist God's arm? Why do we bribe God with seed to speed up answers? God is never pleased or moved by offerings/tithes but by the state of a man's heart. You wanna move God? give him a contrite and a broken spirit,He will not despise. Anything else is an abomination. Yesterday I was reading a book by a counselor by 'calling'. Her book had a contribution by a clergyman from Alaska who not only counseled, but even had follow up sessions with his clients. And so did he give medicine. Moreover, can one ask for something and not plead for it. The child will ingratiate itself to the parent, the adult to God. Ditto the statesmen. Only those without desire are without fervency and ingratiation. The sacrifice is an act of appeasement. How does a witch's incantations differ from a saint's prayer? The intention.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
|
Tycho there are 2 wills of God when we pray. 1. God's Perfect will-when He answers us according to His word 2. God's Permissive will-happens when we plead too much,it's causing God to act against what he intended for you.In most cases the results are disastrous. eg.King Hezekiah.God told him;' Quote:Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.”
Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, “Remember, Lord, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
God told him'I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you.I will add fifteen years to your life.
Those additional fifteen years brought Judah one of its worst kings. ... Hezekiah started out as a godly king, and overall his reign was one of outstanding godliness. His beginning was much better than his end but he did not finish well,the added years did not make him a better or a more godly man. The type of prayers backed by these forceful seeds are arm twisting prayers followed by hezekiash results.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
kysse wrote:Tycho there are 2 wills of God when we pray. 1. God's Perfect will-when He answers us according to His word 2. God's Permissive will-happens when we plead too much,it's causing God to act against what he intended for you.In most cases the results are disastrous. eg.King Hezekiah.God told him;' Quote:Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.”
Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, “Remember, Lord, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
God told him'I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you.I will add fifteen years to your life.
Those additional fifteen years brought Judah one of its worst kings. ... Hezekiah started out as a godly king, and overall his reign was one of outstanding godliness. His beginning was much better than his end but he did not finish well,the added years did not make him a better or a more godly man. The type of prayers backed by these forceful seeds are arm twisting prayers followed by hezekiash results. And God further disintegrates. His permissive will is fertile ground for the pleader's imagination and cries. Who needs his perfect will?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
|
tycho wrote:
And God further disintegrates. His permissive will is fertile ground for the pleader's imagination and cries.
For people who dislike reality,fear processes,preferring shortcuts
Who needs his perfect will?I do,we all should even though it's painful at times, but the results are long-lasting and work for our own good and those around us.
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
If you can't plant a seed, no prayers/blessings..
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|