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Konza city Reality.
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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http://www.a4architect.c...nza-ict-park-land-deal/
]The Ministry of Information, entered into an agreement with the directors of Malili Ranch on June 17 last year to purchase 5,000 acres of land at a price of Sh200,000 per acre and made a down-payment of Sh400 million. The Sh600 million balance was paid in January paving the way for work to begin. Malili Ranch belonged to 606 farmers who owned 7.8 acres each and were paid Sh1.56 million each for their shares. The government has zoned part of the 5,000 acres for planned activities such as IT, hospitality, education, health and finance -] The 400m tax payers money could have all been utilised to lay IT related infrastructure. No need to purchase the land since Govt. can make bye laws stipulating land usage to be IT based. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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What we should focus on is whether Konza city will create opportunity for Kenyans in the technology,Hospitality, health, education and finance sectors konza is not only meant for the IT industry.Likewise we should be giving ideas on how we can create opportunities for those willing to make good use of these opportunities. There is talent in Kenya there are young guyz doing amazing IT innovations from mobile Apps to great solutions extending some of the major ERP solutions.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@jamplu. true. Nairobi has already overgrown itself. The next posible location for nirobi city extension is along mombasa road. whether or not govt. intervenes in the konza city situation, the area will still grow into a city due to proximity ot cbd and mombasa road access. Als, land is cheap and available as oposed to thika road, nairobi-nakuru highway. IT talent will also grow whether or not there is Konza city. The mobile app developers will still innovate. Konza city marketing is very similar to Tatu and many other real estate developments. The end result is a large profit to the owner of the 500 acre land i.e Govt.after re selling the land to 3rd parties. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Our AG indeed belongs to the old school of thought..!!!
Im tempted to call him names
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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bird_man wrote:Let me just ask this.... If you were Seven Seas,Craft Silicon,Nokia Siemens,Ericsson,Safaricom,Kencall,KDN,AK,IBM,HP etc.....why would you shift your office from Westlands/Mombasa Rd to Konza?
Is it that taxes will be lower?Fibre faster?Cheaper labour?Cheaper electricity?Huge market?
What? Even better why would one set up shop in Konza and not KU ( KU is making its own city and looking at its plan it looks promising) Konza city shld be a long term plan,the govt shld concentrate with the current challenges like getting the last mile connectivity which I think is becoming a challenge. ICTboard is trying to fund start ups and encourage content development but can we really say our current capacity can actually occupy a city live alone a town... I think what KU has done is commendable...They have students who in most cases are creative and form the largest users of technology.. JKUAT is just a few KMs from there... The university has collaborations with cisco and kenyas telecoms...This I think is the way to go. What the Govt needs to do is put in place an enabling environment for the growth of the ICT sector. for instance,high Electricity charges,high fuel costs and unstable currency makes this country uncompetitive.The gap btwn the common mwananchi and engineers is wanting like someone said we have the skills but it is useless given that we still use outdated technology in most sectors of the economy. Another thing like an MP said the other day about wasting funds to invest in nuclear energy when we have untapped potential in geothermal which is cheaper to produce. We have capacities to produce agricultural products that can compete in international market..why are we concentrating in costly projects that does not guarantee an immediate cashflow and neglect sectors of the economy that have a guarantee.Look at Eastleigh, Muthurwa market,juakali artisans on luthuli,huruma,Umoja and other towns these pple need well designed markets to boost our retail and industrial sector But the govt has neglected this big portion of the economy for KONZA CITY. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@selah..good point. Govt should concentrate on policy and live business to its citizens. The 400m pumped into Konza to buy land could have been used to support innovation. The 600 men who own Konza understand business logic so they would still support ICT city at Konza without govt buying their land-they could have been left to re-sell their land to ICT businesses. I dont see the point of using tax payers money to buy land then resell the same land. I also dont see the point of using tax payers money to advertise empty land with marvelous 3 d renderings while they could have asked the owners of konza land to join together to advertise their own land at their own cost to potential buyers. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/8/2007 Posts: 808
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This Konza city is another of those money making schemes by ill advised civil servants. I can wager my next year annual salary that this thing will never take place and in future I expect it to be the subject of the PAC meetings. 3D renderings repeatedly advertised on the TV don't make things a reality.
Government's work is to provide policy and basic infrastructure to locations and letting things thrive. Anyone familiar with with Canary Wharf in London or Dubai's Internet city, media city and financial center can obviously see this Konza thing is a scheme.
If government was serious it would start by providing basic infrastructure around Upper hill and putting together policy. The place is an already built up financial district without policy of ideal infrastructure. Industrial area is another one falling short on policy and infrastructure, ditto Mombasa road and Athi river junction with it's now 5 cement companies in place. These just require policy and basic supporting infrastructure and some of these fancy themes can become reality. So if the same people can't see these obvious ones why do we believe they will turn a bush into a technology city.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/10/2012 Posts: 16 Location: Nairobi
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Kausha wrote:
If government was serious it would start by providing basic infrastructure around Upper hill and putting together policy.
I think Konza will be the first city to be fully planned before inception in Africa(I stand to be corrected). The places you have mentioned as having failed planning have mushroomed without plans but that will not be the case with Konza. Today, we are being given the chance to own part of and the environs of the city the same way some Muranga men did when Nairobi was coming up when no one would guess that those buildings would be worth tens or hundreds of millions. For all risk takers, i would advise you to invest around Konza with the future in mind. Vision 2030 is only 17yrs ago. Thats when most of the young people's children will be joining colleges and universities. Half a million in 2030 will not educate your child at the Uni or in Private schools but if invested in Konza and Konza takes off(some of us have no doubt it will), you will have an investment worth millions which you can choose to sell off and educate your children or you will have been developed and rent collected would pay the fee.... Long term thinking. Anyone feeling what I mean?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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a4architect.com wrote:@selah..good point. Govt should concentrate on policy and live business to its citizens. The 400m pumped into Konza to buy land could have been used to support innovation. The 600 men who own Konza understand business logic so they would still support ICT city at Konza without govt buying their land-they could have been left to re-sell their land to ICT businesses. I dont see the point of using tax payers money to buy land then resell the same land. I also dont see the point of using tax payers money to advertise empty land with marvelous 3 d renderings while they could have asked the owners of konza land to join together to advertise their own land at their own cost to potential buyers. Not quite. Same way they build airports to attract carriers, ports, etc. Think of the first submarine cable and then it starts to make sense... there has to be an incentive for such investments and if the govt does not take the first step, who will? And under what framework?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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Kausha wrote:This Konza city is another of those money making schemes by ill advised civil servants. I can wager my next year annual salary that this thing will never take place and in future I expect it to be the subject of the PAC meetings. 3D renderings repeatedly advertised on the TV don't make things a reality.
Government's work is to provide policy and basic infrastructure to locations and letting things thrive. Anyone familiar with with Canary Wharf in London or Dubai's Internet city, media city and financial center can obviously see this Konza thing is a scheme.
If government was serious it would start by providing basic infrastructure around Upper hill and putting together policy. The place is an already built up financial district without policy of ideal infrastructure. Industrial area is another one falling short on policy and infrastructure, ditto Mombasa road and Athi river junction with it's now 5 cement companies in place. These just require policy and basic supporting infrastructure and some of these fancy themes can become reality. So if the same people can't see these obvious ones why do we believe they will turn a bush into a technology city.
Nothing could be further from the truth. I would single out the Ministry of Infocomm - say that about other ministries but NOT InfoComms.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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What i know is that this project will pick up if the next government is development minded... when it does pick up, majority of us here will be left saying that the government does not think about its people... if the government had not advertised, who would be knowing about this Konza City? I have not yet invested there because my money is tied elsewhere, but immediately i get some free money that will afford me a piece of something there, i sure will put it there and for once, i am proud with what the government is doing. What we Kenyans are suffering from is a "chronic negativity infested mind" and a "rich complainant's spirit".... We never seem to tire from either if not both. We never see anything good until it happens.... And then we sit and complain and point fingers at our MPs... its sad!
Am not advising anyone to invest there, at the end of the day, its your money and Mr. Ndemo can only give an opportunity to those willing to take risks... and i know many will and i hope i wont be too late for the bus. For those who will not, well, they can only reap where they sow... People said Michuki needed to go for treatment when he talked of Thika Road 8 lanes (google some comments on some blogs) because it was unbelievable in this country, I bet they arent saying that anymore.... this too, will come to pass and it will leave people wishing they put their fingers in just as many are wishing they grabbed a piece of land lying somewhere along thika road which they cant afford now...
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/10/2012 Posts: 16 Location: Nairobi
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muthoniruth wrote:
Vision 2030 is only 17yrs ago.
I meant to say, that we only have 17yrs to go before the year of Vision 2030
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@Djinn.....Not quite. Same way they build airports to attract carriers, ports, etc. Think of the first submarine cable and then it starts to make sense... Which incentive is the Govt. offering in the Konza deal? What i can see is Govt. using tax payers money to buy 5000 acres and advertise on TV. Already the owners of the 5000 acre land have no problem with the city so they could have held on to their land and ask Govt. to put up ICT supportive policy plus free advert then they sell their land at a better price than the kes 200k per acre that they sold to Govt. The 800m that Govt used to buy the land can now be re directed to supportive infrastructure such as internet cable, roads, e.t.c @ Wendz...Konza area will grow into a city whether or not there is ICT city planning. This is the only part around Nairobi where there is avaiable land at a low price next to a major highway leading to Mombasa. People should buy land around Konza for speculation purposes..the benefits will be obvious since land is not overpriced. Once the tv ads create a sizeable demand, the price will be too high to make returns on investment. E.g when Thika greens project started, a quartet was going for kes 300k. After adverts and hype, the quarter now goes for 4 to 5m. Whoever buys the quarter at 4 to 5 m will take too long to recover the returns . This super profit goes to the current owner of the land who in most cases is someone who bought for speculation or the original owner who is holding on the land till there is sufficient hype. Once the same situation happens in Konza, only the original owner will gain i.e Govt and individuals who will buy for speculation. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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@Wendz No one is saying Konza city is a bad investment all we are saying as real estate that place can sell itself the govt shld just provide guidelines and policy. A question was asked why would IBM,Microsoft or Nokia invest in Konza and not Nairobi or Mombasa.What makes Konza attractive to tecnological companies...Is it the Blue print alone. Our argument is that Human capital is necessary thats why silicon valley and Indias It hubs came into being. About The potential of Konza becoming a city Brasilia, Abuja, Guangzhou and Bangalore are some of the cities that have become successful after a deliberate plan by their government to create new specialised cities...so konza will work but as a longterm plan. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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Here is the site http://www.konzacity.co.ke/
I dont see much about ICT infrastructure and policy. People in the know on how Govt plans to support ICT Ventures, please give us the info. All we see is Govt buying land then advertising to sell the same land to ICT Ventures. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/2/2007 Posts: 536
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selah wrote:@Wendz No one is saying Konza city is a bad investment all we are saying as real estate that place can sell itself the govt shld just provide guidelines and policy.
A question was asked why would IBM,Microsoft or Nokia invest in Konza and not Nairobi or Mombasa.What makes Konza attractive to tecnological companies...Is it the Blue print alone.
Our argument is that Human capital is necessary thats why silicon valley and Indias It hubs came into being.
About The potential of Konza becoming a city Brasilia, Abuja, Guangzhou and Bangalore are some of the cities that have become successful after a deliberate plan by their government to create new specialised cities...so konza will work but as a longterm plan. Was reading somewhere about some of the reasons for the success of the silicon valley. Wasn't because it was in San Francisco. More because it was close to Stanford University.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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tuvok wrote:
Was reading somewhere about some of the reasons for the success of the silicon valley.
Wasn't because it was in San Francisco. More because it was close to Stanford University.
Exactly, the main attraction is usually the talent pool. The problem is that when people visit good cities, they try to "build" the same environment without really getting to understand what came first, the chicken or the egg. The best thing that our government can ever do is to educate people and educate them seriously. All kinds of companies will follow and come to tap into the large talent pool. If you have the desired talent pool but no infrastructure, companies would be willing to ship the talent.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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I would like you all to visit the University of Nairobi ADD campus and see the plan that was there for Nairobi. You would never recognise Nairobi from the plans. All the way from footpaths, to bicycle lanes to leeways....Nairobi is awesome on paper. Thika road was not mooted by Michuki. It is in numerous papers at that campus. Take a few moments of your life and head there. All these plans fail simply because of implementation.If you take Kisia to Konza, no amount of 3D will work. There is a plan now for an ICT city in Kenya in about 10-20 yrs. What is being done now to implement it other than selling plots? The kids now in standard 6 will be graduating from college at about that time. Other than changing the number of years that one goes through school, are they being prepared to take up the jobs in such a park or shall we import from India? There is no doubt in my mind that Konza as a property investment right now is a better idea than buying an apartment in Kilimani. The problem I have and others who work in this industry is that we don't believe that building houses alone will make Kenya an ICT Mecca. All you have to do is visit ICT centres in the world and understand how far we are and the challenges we face. If that is negative thinking, then so be it. I prefer to call it a calling spade a spade thinking. With the opening up of Thika road, chances are higher that an ICT mecca will show up somewhere around Juja and Thika simply because you will have the trained labour in JKuat and KU. This is how Silicon Valley happened. All those colleges around there. They did not build a tall building first. It was the people first. And every day when Kenyans do not have access to great ICT infrastructure, is another day when Philipinos and Indians are getting faster and better IT connectivity. Every day that the ICT board sells plots instead of making sure ICT is available even to the men beaten up in Nyeri, is another day when this Konza thing becomes a mirage rather than reality. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Alma
nothing silicon will spring up and around dry Juja or Kahawa because the tech university is there.. UNLESS the universities put up some hub of sort in partnership with the county of the day.. What's in Juja to make you stay and plan a startup after 4/5 years of normal education and below par equipment, no R&D labs?
Reason being?
Reason being the same nay sayer have been giving about Konza City... Infrastructure, policies etc?
we want to give examples of how the silicon valley came up. about the human factor first, before the infrastructure. but forget that Silicon valley already had infrastructure in place. 'cutting edge technology' by standards of the days.
ever read the tipping point.. if Bill Gates school didnt not invest in a computer back then, the poor nerd would probably be at NASA or Wall street.
the innovations at silicon valley were facilitated by the 'well equiped research facilities. We shout about government and policies, pointing at silicon Valley but forget that the valley already provided the necessary conducive environments (infrastructure and policies) to the students to help innovation sprout...
*sigh*
Isnt that what the Min of info and comm. is trying to do at Konza? this is not the 70's, Information and innovation is everywhere..infrastructure and policies are missing... The guy nabbed from JKUAT to work for Twitter... do you think he acquired those skills from campus..? the brains are there.. they just want facilitation, if not in the classroom then some other location, otherwise they will be constrained by the already choking environments, ending up abroad or as employees to the highest bidder.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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poundfoolish, I agree with you entirely! And that's the point. Every man/woman in a toyota in nairobi wants to one day drive a mercedes. But when the car breaks down, he doesn't head to Toyota, he heads to grogan. Sure he'd prefer to go to dt dobie but the facts in his pocket don't lie. He understands that before he can go get the mercedes, there some things he needs to do first in order to have his mercedes run well. He wouldn't want to have an empty pocket as his merc stalls on Uhuru highway. These are the facts as I know them from personal experience. I offer a service online that only 3 other companies in the world offer. Out of the 4 of us, we happen to be the most expensive. 2 of them are in India and another in the Phillipines. So we got to talking with the fellows as I was wondering how they could manage to offer such low rates and I was losing business. It all boiled down to one thing. In one hour I am able to do 2 jobs. In an hour they are able to do 10 jobs. So their revenue per man hour is higher. The reason I was doing less work is because of 1. Slow internet speeds. (pls don't even think 3G is anywhere to fast and reliable with what we do) 2. KPLC 3. Lack of trained employees They have all those things covered. So just in case you are thinking that is the end of the story. In order to compete, we've had to hire remote computers( in india and the US) to avoid the power outages and the unreliable internet in Kenya. This is 2012. You are telling me that I should now wait for 10yrs so that Konza can be built so that Kenyans can compete with the rest of the world? The world won't wait for Kenya That is where I believe this whole idea has gone wrong. I believe that it is possible to have in Kenya this year, fast internet in all homes. That is unless the 3 fibre lines laid were not what was advertised. We do not have 10 yrs to build houses. We either compete now or we are doomed. The ministry should be encouraging companies such as zuku, Jtl to lay fibre everywhere. They should get out of their nairobi offices, go to kisumu and explain to the farmer how hii internet ni mzuri sana. You can even see naked women for free. Slow down on the international conferences they are always going to and sponsor 5 students a year to IT colleges out there coz our current breed of lecturers can't teach IT to their own children That 600 million spent on land would have gone further if offered to schools so that our kids don't have to go to a college after form 4 to learn excel and word. those with businesses here will attest to the fact that even university graduates have no idea how to work with a word document. Tell them to use excell and you have to call a press conference. I'm sorry. In ten years time, there may not even be a computer in anyone's home. That is how fast ICT grows. But an educated populace will be able to deal with the challenges. Right now, all anyone can tell me is that the ICT board supports Ihub. Some no more than 500 Kenyans. How are 500 Kenyans going to stay ahead when where I was living in Cambridge, every shopkeeper was IT savvy? My neighbour's kids were being hired by gaming companies to come up with computer programs. Let's get serious here.Let's build the infrastructure and resources first then build the so called cities. Trust me, your next Konza may be somewhere in Mt. Elgon....All they need is the support from gov't not houses. That is why they have county gov'ts to come up with their own cities. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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