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Elliott Wave Analysis Of The NSE 20
VituVingiSana
#3601 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:36:20 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
mnandii wrote:
Quote:
NSE slides to 17-year low as stocks suffer huge losses

Quote:
Kenya’s stock market hit a new 17-year low in Tuesday’s trading as most stocks continued to suffer losses.

The benchmark NSE 20 Share Index closed at 1,794.6 points, a level last seen on April 28, 2003.

The performance has pushed the current bear market to five-and-a-half years, with the index falling 67.3 per cent from the peak of 5,491.3 points recorded on February 2, 2015.


Quote:
Since the year begun, Nation Media Group , Bamburi Cement and Nairobi Securities Exchange (the bourse operator) have seen their stocks drop the most by 73.1, 67.1 and 44.9 per cent to trade at Sh10.1, Sh28 and Sh6.7 respectively.

Safaricom, the largest company on the bourse, has also shed 14.7 per cent over the same period to close at Sh26.4 in yesterday’s trading session.




Quote:
Scores of NSE-listed firms have already warned investors that their earnings will fall by 25 per cent or more in their current financial year, citing depressed demand and restrictions on travel and social activities, among other factors.


We have known this from at least 2014/2015 when I introduced guys here to Socionomics. But many were and continue to be dismissive of this powerful tool! Well, if you can't learn from history then you are bound to repeat the same. Human nature never changes. What is, is what has been and is what will be thither and hither

And yet instead of doom and gloom, some of us have increased our net worth since 2014/15 in a FALLING market.

Why? How?

1) Selection. Safaricom in 2020 vs 2014. KK 2019 (buyout) vs 2014. Also adjust for bonuses
2) Dividends. Look at what Scan will pay! Or Saf has paid. Or Williamson and Kapchorua since 2014/15.
3) Commission/trading costs to get in/out of positions.

If one bought duds like Mumias, KQ, HAFR, ARM then... d'oh!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#3602 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:39:43 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
mnandii wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
wukan wrote:
The fall below 1800 went unnoticed...talk about wazuans burnt to recognition


smile

Yeah. So quiet Laughing out loudly
How many of us invest in the NSE Index?
It's a misleading representation for most Wazuans. Means little.

Yes
We look at individual counters and position ourselves.


Stocks have fallen in lock step with the index. And the index is derived from individual stocks
No, not all individual stocks have fallen in lock-step.

Chart out Safaricom vs NSE 20
Or Kenol Kobil.

Plus for firms that are doing well, we need not sell.
The current share price, whereas important, is not the value of the share.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mnandii
#3603 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:41:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
heri wrote:
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:
mnandii wrote:


SAFARICOM. Still falling. My target of sub 14.00 remains.

Do fundamentalists realize that the share has been falling despite the stellar results announced recently? Why has the good results not propped up the share as we were made to believe?

The only reason is that fundamentals do not determine the direction of a market. Causality is the opposite way: the market direction determines the direction of fundamentals


I don't think anyone expects stellar H1 results due in November.
The KES depreciation is also messing up the bulls.
That said, it would be interesting to see Scom retreat back to 14 levels. The fear gauge would be at an all time high.



Is safaricom not benefiting to some extent with the online learning, online transactions ,home fibre uptake etc .


The problem with fundamental analysis as practised the world over is that goal posts keep changing as if on whim (Elliotticians have studied this, due to uncertainity the herd will explain a way a market move by rationalizing a myriad of reasons to befit the ensuing environment) .

Just at about the time Safaricom results were posted and repeated my call for Safaricom share to fall, I was told that that scenario (fall in price) would not happen because the stellar results would push the share price higher. That hasn't happened!

Now, with the reality that the share is actually flounding, we get a new reason (* a rationalization) that the share is falling due to foreigners who fear a depreciating shilling. Shame on you

These are conflicting causality for market dynamics. At what point did the stellar performance stop being a factor in the direction of the market before the depreciating shilling took over?

The thing with fundamental analysis is that the practioners use a lot of technical jargon which makes it sound quiet attractive and noble to the herd. True, there are very sharp economic minds trying to figure the direction of the markets. But, and this is key, all that effort is useless in the face of reality. this bear market is proving the futility of relying on news to forecast a market.

If market direction depended on fundamentals then the Professors and PHD holders in economics would be outperforming the market at every turn. Studies have proven this not to be the case. The reason for this is that there is a distinction between economics and finance. Causality in economics (supply and demand leading to equilibrium prices) is quite distinct from causality in finance (mass psychology due to subconscious impulses).

In short, in economics you rely on your neocortex to make rational decisions eg you would buy more of an item at a lowered price than when the price is higher. On the other hand, in Finance decisions are made from the subconscious pre-rational part of the brain (the limbic system). Thus, for example, animals in the wild herd to increase their chances of survival in case of an attack by a predator. This behaviour is caused by uncertainity (key) thus the need to derive safety in numbers.

During evolution of the human brain(I hear some say they don't believe in evolution, Shame on you ) the limbic system was retained as an important part.

Quote:
The limbic system is a set of structures in the brain that deal with emotions and memory. It regulates autonomic or endocrine function in response to emotional stimuli and also is involved in reinforcing behavior

link

It is the limbic system that takes part when you are trading in financial instruments. For one, there is no tangible utility one derives from holding financial instruments unlike say buying bread. In the financial arena people behave differently from when they are in economic arena. For example, when a share price is falling you will find that there are fewer holders. Yet when the share price is rising the number of people who want to buy at ever higher prices increases exponentially.

In the Financial arena there is uncertainity (no one knows the direction of the market) thus the only way for participants to feel some level of safety is to seek people of similar opinion. Yes, they herd because they assume the crowd knows best.

The interesting thing with herding is that those who do it actually have no knowledge that they herd. It is afterall a subconscious thing! So when fundamental practioners give one reason or another for a market move, what they are actually doing is rationalizing the reason for the move after the move. Your limbic system is fast and will impell the neocortex to procure a very rational reason for what the subconscious has effectively 'decided' upon. And this is what they do day in day out.

For more on this subject read:

The Triune Brain in Evolution: Role in Paleocerebral Functions by P.D. Maclean

as well the Socionomics books by Robert Prechter.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mnandii
#3604 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:42:48 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
wukan wrote:
The fall below 1800 went unnoticed...talk about wazuans burnt to recognition


smile

Yeah. So quiet Laughing out loudly
How many of us invest in the NSE Index?
It's a misleading representation for most Wazuans. Means little.

Yes
We look at individual counters and position ourselves.


Stocks have fallen in lock step with the index. And the index is derived from individual stocks
No, not all individual stocks have fallen in lock-step.

Chart out Safaricom vs NSE 20
Or Kenol Kobil.

Plus for firms that are doing well, we need not sell.
The current share price, whereas important, is not the value of the share.


I meant in the aggregate.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
VituVingiSana
#3605 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:49:09 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
wukan wrote:
Monk wrote:
mnandii wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
wukan wrote:
The fall below 1800 went unnoticed...talk about wazuans burnt to recognition


smile

Yeah. So quiet Laughing out loudly
How many of us invest in the NSE Index?
It's a misleading representation for most Wazuans. Means little.

Yes
We look at individual counters and position ourselves.


Stocks have fallen in lock step with the index. And the index is derived from individual stocks


@Mnandii You missed @Ericsson's point. My ABP on some counters I've held for long is below current price, the index notwithstanding.


You are also missing the point that the market is giving you aggregate information through the index. Using ABP is like using current rent to calculate your rental yield on the purchase price of your house you bought in bururubu in 1990. You create too much distortion and you do not therefore employ capital in the proper way.
A house on 1 acre along Thika Highway vs a house in Buruburu bought in 1990 [assuming one paid the same] is very different in 2020.
I like to use "London" as an example. The prices of properties in the UK (in aggregate) have seen a log since 2014 vs LONDON (city) which has seen prices RISE. So land and house owners in London aren't feeling the pain of the "aggregate"
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Angelica _ann
#3606 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:52:18 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,935
mnandii wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
wukan wrote:
The fall below 1800 went unnoticed...talk about wazuans burnt to recognition


smile

Yeah. So quiet Laughing out loudly
How many of us invest in the NSE Index?
It's a misleading representation for most Wazuans. Means little.

Yes
We look at individual counters and position ourselves.


Stocks have fallen in lock step with the index. And the index is derived from individual stocks
No, not all individual stocks have fallen in lock-step.

Chart out Safaricom vs NSE 20
Or Kenol Kobil.

Plus for firms that are doing well, we need not sell.
The current share price, whereas important, is not the value of the share.


I meant in the aggregate.


Some of us have posted the shares we hold and why we hold them. So we sleep easy. Once in a while you are caught in ARM (I have said never again), and you learn from that. Looking at the economy (plus COVID), it was obvious the stock market was headed for a nose dive and i expect it to dip further until around 2022. So better hold defensive stocks.

You have also got some of your predictions wrong like NMG on 2nd June 2020 and it is still falling - you are not perfect the way you want us to believe.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
VituVingiSana
#3607 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:52:42 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
Perhaps someone has the info but how was the NSE 20 Index calculated in 2014/15?

The weighting of each constituent?

As an example, KQ was still at 12-ish?
Same KQ closed at 1.25-ish given there was a 1:4 consolidation. That's 10%.

Compare to Safaricom (and include dividends).

So a portfolio with ONLY Safaricom. 100% Saf. Nothing else. This would have handily beaten the NSE 20 Index.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#3608 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 10:56:40 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
@mmnandii - Let's pick specific stocks. I am only interested in what I own.
Centum, KenRe, Unga, I&M, C&G and SCB [my major holdings = 85%]

NBV, HAFR, etc are of zero interest to me.
http://wazua.co.ke/forum...38011&p=5#post900230
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mnandii
#3609 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:00:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
mnandii wrote:
heri wrote:
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:
mnandii wrote:


SAFARICOM. Still falling. My target of sub 14.00 remains.

Do fundamentalists realize that the share has been falling despite the stellar results announced recently? Why has the good results not propped up the share as we were made to believe?

The only reason is that fundamentals do not determine the direction of a market. Causality is the opposite way: the market direction determines the direction of fundamentals


I don't think anyone expects stellar H1 results due in November.
The KES depreciation is also messing up the bulls.
That said, it would be interesting to see Scom retreat back to 14 levels. The fear gauge would be at an all time high.



Is safaricom not benefiting to some extent with the online learning, online transactions ,home fibre uptake etc .


The problem with fundamental analysis as practised the world over is that goal posts keep changing as if on whim (Elliotticians have studied this, due to uncertainity the herd will explain a way a market move by rationalizing a myriad of reasons to befit the ensuing environment) .

Just at about the time Safaricom results were posted and repeated my call for Safaricom share to fall, I was told that that scenario (fall in price) would not happen because the stellar results would push the share price higher. That hasn't happened!

Now, with the reality that the share is actually flounding, we get a new reason (* a rationalization) that the share is falling due to foreigners who fear a depreciating shilling. Shame on you

These are conflicting causality for market dynamics. At what point did the stellar performance stop being a factor in the direction of the market before the depreciating shilling took over?

The thing with fundamental analysis is that the practioners use a lot of technical jargon which makes it sound quiet attractive and noble to the herd. True, there are very sharp economic minds trying to figure the direction of the markets. But, and this is key, all that effort is useless in the face of reality. this bear market is proving the futility of relying on news to forecast a market.

If market direction depended on fundamentals then the Professors and PHD holders in economics would be outperforming the market at every turn. Studies have proven this not to be the case. The reason for this is that there is a distinction between economics and finance. Causality in economics (supply and demand leading to equilibrium prices) is quite distinct from causality in finance (mass psychology due to subconscious impulses).

In short, in economics you rely on your neocortex to make rational decisions eg you would buy more of an item at a lowered price than when the price is higher. On the other hand, in Finance decisions are made from the subconscious pre-rational part of the brain (the limbic system). Thus, for example, animals in the wild herd to increase their chances of survival in case of an attack by a predator. This behaviour is caused by uncertainity (key) thus the need to derive safety in numbers.

During evolution of the human brain(I hear some say they don't believe in evolution, Shame on you ) the limbic system was retained as an important part.

Quote:
The limbic system is a set of structures in the brain that deal with emotions and memory. It regulates autonomic or endocrine function in response to emotional stimuli and also is involved in reinforcing behavior

link

It is the limbic system that takes part when you are trading in financial instruments. For one, there is no tangible utility one derives from holding financial instruments unlike say buying bread. In the financial arena people behave differently from when they are in economic arena. For example, when a share price is falling you will find that there are fewer holders. Yet when the share price is rising the number of people who want to buy at ever higher prices increases exponentially.

In the Financial arena there is uncertainity (no one knows the direction of the market) thus the only way for participants to feel some level of safety is to seek people of similar opinion. Yes, they herd because they assume the crowd knows best.

The interesting thing with herding is that those who do it actually have no knowledge that they herd. It is afterall a subconscious thing! So when fundamental practioners give one reason or another for a market move, what they are actually doing is rationalizing the reason for the move after the move. Your limbic system is fast and will impell the neocortex to procure a very rational reason for what the subconscious has effectively 'decided' upon. And this is what they do day in day out.

For more on this subject read:

The Triune Brain in Evolution: Role in Paleocerebral Functions by P.D. Maclean

as well the Socionomics books by Robert Prechter.


Let's tie this with Elliott Waves:
People herding in the Financial arena create patterns that repeat on regular intervals. This repetitive behaviour is what creates predictability in the markets. This predictable repetitive behaviour is what creates patterns that Ralph Nelson Elliott set out to painstakingly journal and he succeeded in doing so. In short, mass psychology produce patterns that repeat in a predictable fashion according to Elliott Waves.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mnandii
#3610 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:18:55 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
Angelica _ann wrote:
mnandii wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
wukan wrote:
The fall below 1800 went unnoticed...talk about wazuans burnt to recognition


smile

Yeah. So quiet Laughing out loudly
How many of us invest in the NSE Index?
It's a misleading representation for most Wazuans. Means little.

Yes
We look at individual counters and position ourselves.


Stocks have fallen in lock step with the index. And the index is derived from individual stocks
No, not all individual stocks have fallen in lock-step.

Chart out Safaricom vs NSE 20
Or Kenol Kobil.

Plus for firms that are doing well, we need not sell.
The current share price, whereas important, is not the value of the share.


I meant in the aggregate.


Some of us have posted the shares we hold and why we hold them. So we sleep easy. Once in a while you are caught in ARM (I have said never again), and you learn from that. Looking at the economy (plus COVID), it was obvious the stock market was headed for a nose dive and i expect it to dip further until around 2022. So better hold defensive stocks.

You have also got some of your predictions wrong like NMG on 2nd June 2020 and it is still falling - you are not perfect the way you want us to believe.


Thanks. I don't really think I have wanted to create an impression of infallibility. If that is the case then I am sorry. But again there are several instances where I have acknowledged here and elsewhere when I was srong.

The thing is that my intentions of posting on Elliott Waves here is to try to convince the few (true Elliotticians will always be few, the rest will herd and create the patterns we rely upon to predict the market) that there is a better and clearer and scientific way to view the markets absent the noise. My ideal goal would be to create a spark of interest to get the few to open up their eyes to a new and interesting realm. I would want them to experience the excitement I felt at the time I discovered the wonderful world of Elliott. Coz when you discover Elliott, a new and wonderful world suddenly opens up to you. You start to see things differently and correctly.

I am also aware that a majority will never be convinced coz truly Elliott is difficult to accept (learning can be easy but accepting is something else altogether). Accepting Elliott means you have uninstall your operating system you have lived with all your life. It means unlearning a whole lot of what you have assumed and come to believe to be true. It means a complete change of identity. That, my dear, is scary for many. Remember also that your limbic system will be standing right across your path. The limbic system is subconscious. Only few can overcome it.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
372 Pages«<359360361362363>»
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