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buying CIC at kes 38
PKoli
#41 Posted : Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:53:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
[quote=BGL]why buy @ 38 if you can get it at 20bob not unless you are not a SACCO member.

@pkoli

They were raising 450mn, they got 234mn which was 48% less that their target. Regarding the signatories they needed a stamp with an authorized signatory sometimes even a seal.

@ TUPAC

You can download the 2009 annual report from their website and do the numbers... I ain't an accountant so i cannot make your answer from them. However Wazua's most decorated accountant VituVingiSana (senior Elder)or any other accountant can help you out.

here is the annual report http://www.cic.co.ke/pub...ANNUAL_REPORT_20091.pdf[/quote]

I am an active member of CiC I have got there annual accounts for the last three years, both hard and soft.
stock.enigma
#42 Posted : Wednesday, September 01, 2010 4:19:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 244

They are creating 20,000,000 (Twenty Million) ordinary shares of Kenya Shillings Twenty (Kshs 20)to be sold before the end of the year to members of cooperative societies.

In 2007, i was sceptical and i put in only Ksh 22,500 for 1000 shares, this time around,i will put in 500k worth of shares. I see it going the cooperative bank way in the next 2-3yrs. I won't be attending the EGM (i am very busy..... and my boss once said he does not pay staff to attend AGMs) scheduled for Sept 17 but i got the agenda. [/quote]


What are the returns like since 2007?
BGL
#43 Posted : Wednesday, September 01, 2010 4:26:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
download the annual report 2009. You will get all the info you need from there.
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
Wa_ithaka
#44 Posted : Wednesday, September 01, 2010 4:44:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
I appreciate all the hyping, but what is CIC worth?
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
PKoli
#45 Posted : Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:33:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
[quote=BGL]why buy @ 38 if you can get it at 20bob not unless you are not a SACCO member.

@pkoli

They were raising 450mn, they got 234mn which was 48% less that their target. Regarding the signatories they needed a stamp with an authorized signatory sometimes even a seal.

@ TUPAC

You can download the 2009 annual report from their website and do the numbers... I ain't an accountant so i cannot make your answer from them. However Wazua's most decorated accountant VituVingiSana (senior Elder)or any other accountant can help you out.

here is the annual report http://www.cic.co.ke/pub...ANNUAL_REPORT_20091.pdf[/quote]

I expect them to issue a rights to the existing shareholders. Therefore buying more at 38 will guarantee you opportunity to get more shares at a discounted price.
PKoli
#46 Posted : Thursday, September 02, 2010 1:41:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
Wa_ithaka wrote:
I appreciate all the hyping, but what is CIC worth?


Are you asking about their assests or the share price? Please note the symbiotic relationship with Coop bank. They insure all their loans; loans of the other Coop movement. You better look at it even if you may not be convinced to buy a few
msimon
#47 Posted : Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:59:07 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/23/2010
Posts: 63
Location: Kampala
PKoli wrote:
Wa_ithaka wrote:
I appreciate all the hyping, but what is CIC worth?


Are you asking about their assests or the share price? Please note the symbiotic relationship with Coop bank. They insure all their loans; loans of the other Coop movement. You better look at it even if you may not be convinced to buy a few


Hey Pkoli, thanks for the update, i have been going through it and i noticed that since 2002, they have only had one year when they had a negative underwriting margin which is nice and their investment income has been increasing. I estimate the value to the private owner to be more than 20/-. Is it possible for a person not in a Sacco to invest, coz i am in kampala.
PKoli
#48 Posted : Thursday, September 02, 2010 6:21:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
msimon wrote:
PKoli wrote:
Wa_ithaka wrote:
I appreciate all the hyping, but what is CIC worth?


Are you asking about their assests or the share price? Please note the symbiotic relationship with Coop bank. They insure all their loans; loans of the other Coop movement. You better look at it even if you may not be convinced to buy a few


Hey Pkoli, thanks for the update, i have been going through it and i noticed that since 2002, they have only had one year when they had a negative underwriting margin which is nice and their investment income has been increasing. I estimate the value to the private owner to be more than 20/-. Is it possible for a person not in a Sacco to invest, coz i am in kampala.


Just like Coop Bank, during private placement, they only sold shares to members of the Saccos. Non Sacco members were only allowed during listing. I am not sure whether this issue will be discussed during the EGM on the eligibility. Two suggestions:
1. Quickly join a Sacco and be eligible for the upcoming offer.

2. Get a very trusted friend to buy for you ofcourse under his/her name.

Happy hunting.
BGL
#49 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 1:34:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
I Monsieur BGL, being a SACCO member plus holding a stake in CIC do post some of the agenda for the EGM..... to participate YOU MUST BE A SACCO MEMBER. But resolution 10 may restrict the participation only to current members IF THE BOARD THINKS IT IS OK. By the way the board has so many wazees who should have retired last decade. Though i am member, i will not be attending so those who attend please provide a clearer info.

Increase of Share Capital
Resolution 8.
THAT the authorized share capital of the Company be increased from Kenya Shillings Six Hundred Million (Kshs 600,000,000) to Kenya Shillings One Billion (Kshs 1,000,000,000) divided into 50,000,000 (Fifty Million) shares of Kenya Shillings Twenty(Kshs. 20) each by the creation of 20,000,000 (Twenty Million) ordinary shares of Kenya Shillings twenty (Kshs 20)

Allotment of Shares
Resolution 9.
THAT the Board be and is hereby authorized to issue and allot the unissued share capital of the Company to the existing Class B shareholders and to new shareholders at such price and on such terms as they deem most beneficial to the Company.

Closure of Register of Members
Resolution 10.
THAT the register of members be closed for a period of thirty days from such date as the Board may determine to allow for the issue and allotment of the new shares as authorized in the foregoing resolution.
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
PKoli
#50 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 2:42:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
BGL wrote:
I Monsieur BGL, being a SACCO member plus holding a stake in CIC do post some of the agenda for the EGM..... to participate YOU MUST BE A SACCO MEMBER. But resolution 10 may restrict the participation only to current members IF THE BOARD THINKS IT IS OK. By the way the board has so many wazees who should have retired last decade. Though i am member, i will not be attending so those who attend please provide a clearer info.

Increase of Share Capital
Resolution 8.
THAT the authorized share capital of the Company be increased from Kenya Shillings Six Hundred Million (Kshs 600,000,000) to Kenya Shillings One Billion (Kshs 1,000,000,000) divided into 50,000,000 (Fifty Million) shares of Kenya Shillings Twenty(Kshs. 20) each by the creation of 20,000,000 (Twenty Million) ordinary shares of Kenya Shillings twenty (Kshs 20)

Allotment of Shares
Resolution 9.
THAT the Board be and is hereby authorized to issue and allot the unissued share capital of the Company to the existing Class B shareholders and to new shareholders at such price and on such terms as they deem most beneficial to the Company.

Closure of Register of Members
Resolution 10.
THAT the register of members be closed for a period of thirty days from such date as the Board may determine to allow for the issue and allotment of the new shares as authorized in the foregoing resolution.


BGL I am keen on resolution 9, allotment of shares. Whether the existing shareholders will be offered a rights issue of 1 to 1 and whether existing shareholders will be offered at the same price as new shareholders.
BGL
#51 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2010 7:26:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
PKoli wrote:

BGL I am keen on resolution 9, allotment of shares. Whether the existing shareholders will be offered a rights issue of 1 to 1 and whether existing shareholders will be offered at the same price as new shareholders.


Though i am a shareholder i'm quite sceptical...they may never do a rights issue and this is why? In 2007 when all the IPO's were massively oversubscribed they only managed to get 52%, so a 1:1 should yield about 250mn and their target being SACCO members they may even get less than that if we go by your formula.
Besides, in the EGM notice... that word *RIGHTS* is not mentioned anywhere! I think they will sell @ 20bob to current and new members. ends
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
BGL
#52 Posted : Friday, September 17, 2010 12:00:52 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
I am unable to attend this EGM. If any Wazua member who will attend kindly update us. If you are on twitter we can follow your tweets.
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
hisah
#53 Posted : Friday, September 17, 2010 12:19:19 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
I'm praying they sell them at 20/- smile

If NSE cannot support itself during this global financial tense times, I'd rather be holding an OTC stock or some T-bill/bond.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
BGL
#54 Posted : Friday, September 17, 2010 12:28:30 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
who will be attending this EGM tomorrow at 1000hrs? Venue:KICC
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
e_kijana
#55 Posted : Friday, September 17, 2010 4:57:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/17/2009
Posts: 55
I Can bet that it will never be sold at sh 20... that is misguided optimisim if you expect that price considering it was sold for Sh 22.50 in 2007. Your best bet is just around sh 40 now - we will know in a few hours....

Also - it will be oversubscribed big time!
TUPAC
#56 Posted : Friday, September 17, 2010 4:25:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
did anybody @ wazua attend the EGM?
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
Sasha
#57 Posted : Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:34:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
Was finally able to get a mzee to sell me some of these shares (5,000) on Monday. We agreed on Kshs 35 per share. The guy went home and called me last night saying that he had changed his mind and would only sell at a minimum of Kshs 50 per share! NKT!
PKoli
#58 Posted : Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:06:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
TUPAC wrote:
did anybody @ wazua attend the EGM?


I did attend and posted the following to another CIC thread:

CIC Extra General Meeting – 17th September 2010 – KICC
Address by the CEO – Nelson Kuria
The CEO gave a historical perspective of the company from the 90s and how the company has since grown to be a major player in the country. His speech was punctuated by biblical quotations;
• In 1994 the Canadian consultant was hired after the company had received aid in the tune of KES 90M from Canada. The consultant concluded that the company will not survive.
• Among the companies that had been declared to be on their way to insolvency, CiC was at the bottom.
• The company went on to pay the foreign shareholders all their debts that had been held in preferential shares.
• In 2004 CiC moved to their new building the Upper Hill.
• This year it is expected to get net earned premiums of the tune of KES 4 billion from last years 2.8 billion.
• CiC holds position number 8 of the total insurance companies in Kenya.
• It is 4th largest insurer in Kenya.
• When the Insurance Regulatory Authority (IRA) raised the share capital to KES 450M, CiC was among the 1st companies to comply. By September 2010 it had raised its share capital to KES 600M. It is currently one of the best capitalized insurance companies in Kenya.
• Cooperative Bank is the largest single shareholder of CiC.
• CiC today is the role model of the Cooperative movement in the World. The only other Cooperative insurer in Africa is in Ghana. It has recently received capital injection, like the one CiC received in 90s.
• The CEO said it is important to capitalize on the current feeling of success to further grow the company.
• Current opportunities for CiC
o Vision 2030
o Growth of the Cooperative movement
o Youthful population – enormous potential
o New constitution – huge untapped potential
• Future belongs to those who plan now; hence CiC revised its strategic plan in August 2010.
• Developed Vision 2030 for CiC – repositioning for the future. If you don’t take change by the hand, it will take you by the throat.
• CiC will not lose its Cooperativeness even as it expands and plan for the IPO in 2013.
• The CEO said that the best days are yet to come and CiC is ready to seize this opportunity. Success is not a destination, but a journey.
• The organization has continued to invest in its employees.
• 2010 has been an impressive year based on the half year results
o Gross premium has grown by 36% over the same period last year
o Investment income has grown by 54% over same period last year
o PBT grown by 27%
Address by the Chairman – Japheth Magomere
The chairman said the decisions for the extra ordinary general meeting have prompted:
o The regulatory requirements
o Emerging markets
o New products
o Regional expansion
o Growth of premium and above requires increased capital to the company.
o CiC intents to operate in Sudan, Tanzania and Malawi in future:
Resolutions:

Resolution 1: Demerger of Life and General Business. This has been necessitated by Regulatory requirements. Long-term insurance business and the general insurance business shall be carried on by, wholly owned subsidiary companies of the Company incorporated for such purpose to be called, “CIC Life Assurance Limited” and “CIC General Insurance Limited”
Resolution 2: That the Company adopt and enter into the Corporate Re-organization Agreement, Asset and Purchase Agreement and Portfolio Transfer Agreements to effect the separation and demerger of the business of the Company;
Resolution 3: Change of Name and Conversion: That the name of the Company be and is hereby changed from the Co-operative Insurance Company of Kenya Limited to CIC Insurance Group Limited (my personal comments on the new name is it is better since it will sell regionally), subject to the approval of the Registrar of Companies;
Resolution 4: That the Company be converted into a public company. The chairman explained that this is a requirement before listing;
Resolution 5: Amendment of Memorandum of Association: That the provisions of the Memorandum of Association with respect to the objects of the company be altered to enable it carry on its business more economically or more efficiently. The following new objects will be included: To acquire and hold a controlling and other interests in the share or loan capital of any company or companies in Kenya and elsewhere, to engage in any activity or interest which appears likely to be advantageous to the Company, to take over as a going concern the business carried on by CIC Life Assurance Limited, CIC General Insurance Limited and CIC Asset Management Limited together with or any part of the property and assets comprised in or associated with any such businesses, and to discharge all or any of the liabilities of any such businesses, and pay for such acquisition either in cash or in fully paid shares or loan capital;
Resolution 6: Amendment of Articles: That the Company adopts new Articles of Association presented before it in place of its current Articles of Association;
Resolution 7: Adoption of By-Laws: That the Company adopts the by-laws of Co-operative Insurance Society Limited.
Resolution 8: Increase of Share Capital: That the authorized share capital of the Company be increased from Kenya Shillings Six Hundred Million (KShs 600,000,000) to Kenya Shillings One Billion, Two hundred million (Kshs 1,200,000,000) divided into 50,000,000 (Fifty million) shares of Kenya Shillings Twenty (Kshs 20) each by the creation of 30,000,000 (Thirty million) ordinary shares of Kenya Shillings Twenty (Kshs 20). . The chairman explained that current A shares will be held by a society, and finally there will be only one class of shareholders as opposed to the current shareholding structure. The company will eventually be listed in the NSE as the company expands in the region, its business subsidiaries will be adequately capitalized;
Resolution 9: Allotment of Shares: That the Board be and is hereby authorized to issue and allot the unissued share capital of the Company to the existing shareholders and to new share holders at such price and on such terms as they deem most beneficial to the company;
Resolution 10: Closure of Register of Members: That the register of members be closed for the period of thirty days from such a date as the Board may determine to allow for the issue and allotment of the new shares as authorized in the foregoing resolution.
Resolution 11: The Board of Directors of the Company be and is hereby authorized to sign all documents and to do all such things as may be necessary to give effect to the above resolutions.

My personal comments – Please note that these are just my comments and you should do your own research in order to get a professional view.
Key points:
o Growth potential of the company into the region
o Cooperative Bank is now the largest shareholder – strategic interest. Coop Bank has a lot of faith in CIC for it to have such a huge shareholding.
o IPO of the CIC to come around 2013 – This gives us time to reposition and grow our shareholding in the company. No need to rush now, we start and slowly build our shares.
o Increase of shares from initially 20 million shares to 30 million shares and these shares to be given to both existing and new shareholders. I believe there will be more shares and slight dilution; therefore I believe the share price could be in the region of 20 bob. My feeling is that not all Cooperatives will take up their rights. We could therefore utilize the opportunity to buy more and cheaper shares.
o Expected earnings are good based on the half year results indicated in my notes above.
o Finally we should be in the company, since there could be nice dividends and potential capital growth of our investments.
Aguytrying
#59 Posted : Thursday, October 14, 2010 11:38:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
Wow. That was thorough reporting. Pkoli. Just read the entire thread and yeah, there's bags of potential here. I happen to be a sacco member. Exactly how can i acquire these shares? Procedure, where etc. thanks. Joining companies before listing can have great rewards. Hope this is one of those gems.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
hisah
#60 Posted : Friday, October 15, 2010 12:26:20 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
CIC @20/- OTC... Too good to be true. If they sell the new shares at this price, that should make the 2013 IPO value discovery very bullish.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
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