wazua Thu, Jan 9, 2025
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

4 Pages<1234>
Safaricom: time to sell as Michael Joseph to retire at the end of 2010
sparkly
#41 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 3:38:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
sheep wrote:
yep! by all metrics Safcom is overvalued.

@sheep i am confident of saf in the long run as long as it retains its dominant position and market leader status, regardless of the CEO. If the competition starts to eat into saf's mkt share significantly then i will be worried.
Life is short. Live passionately.
the deal
#42 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:14:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
safcom is a growth stock hence the high p.e...muzungus knows this thats why they buy it like crazy...theyre not looking at june,theyre looking at 3 years...mpesa has over 7 mil subscribers...its the only 3G network in kenya...dont forget the stock buy back...vodacom did that recently...
sheep
#43 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:22:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
Competition is already gobbling Safcom market share,especially YU.The economics of safcom are bad,voice revenues are on the decline and they are safcoms bread and butter.The sideshows Mpesa and data cannot sufficiently boost the bottom line to justify a p/e of 20+.Some foreigners somewhere will be left scratching their heads.
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
VituVingiSana
#44 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:34:59 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
@proverB: I understand where you are coming from lakini the answer I got from safcom was they felt GoK over-priced the shares 2 years ago but feel the price is undervalued now i.e. Safaricom needed 2 years to justify the current price.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#45 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:36:54 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
@sheep - Wacha madharao... ;-) Kwani safcom ate ur mbuzi?

safcom @ PER of 20???? Please give me the math...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sheep
#46 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:50:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
@VVS
P/E not PER...
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
VituVingiSana
#47 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 5:14:28 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
@sheep What is P/E?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
ProverB
#48 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 9:00:17 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
@sheep..we did some data collection in eastlands in November-Dec last year..for an advertisor magazine... for every 1 subscriber of Yu..we found 35 guys holding safaricom..including the yu guy!!.. safaricom isn't losing market share soon..

wherever there a cellphon network coverage..safcom is there..the only challenge they have is on data..the "hot spot" idea sucks!!..u use a safcom modem in tao and westlands..move out of cbd..u r better off with Yu or orange..

my argument is that they need to find better way of operating.. Revenues of 70.4 Billion 2008..translatin to 1.76 bob a SHARE!!!!..and profit before tax per share of 38CENTS...margin of 21.7.... out of every shilling collected in revenue..safcom had 20CENTs as profit before tax.. decline from 2007..likely decline further 2009.. why pay 5 Bob for it? unless for totally speculative reasons?

Fundamentally..will profitabilty growth rate beat cost rate of Debt they now have??..they can't afford negative growth rate..

minimum rate of growth should, in the very list be equal to growth in cost of overal debt finance.. i.e... cost of both the 463.4million mid term note maturing in 2014.. (interest is prevailing T.Bill rate+1.85)...
plus the 7Billion bond maturing in 2014 too (fixed interest rate of 12.25%)
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
mwanafunzi
#49 Posted : Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:24:30 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 113
Well said,two years and no gains just airtime dividends am out tommorow before we hit below 5,with the huge supply i saw on friday downward pressure is inevitable.
sparkly
#50 Posted : Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:04:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
mwanafunzi wrote:
Well said,two years and no gains just airtime dividends am out tommorow before we hit below 5,with the huge supply i saw on friday downward pressure is inevitable.

how much did you buy at?
Life is short. Live passionately.
guru267
#51 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 6:30:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
safcom is a growth stock hence the high p.e...muzungus knows this thats why they buy it like crazy...theyre not looking at june,theyre looking at 3 years...mpesa has over 7 mil subscribers...its the only 3G network in kenya...dont forget the stock buy back...vodacom did that recently...


@the deal i agree with safcom being a terrific growth stock.. they have 10million Mpesa subscribers which is more than the total banking population in kenya and the data business is just getting started...

though i do have a bone to pick with you on the issue of stock buy backs... stock buy backs as good and as healthy as they are, are NOT allowed at the NSE... what safcom will do is called a share consolidation which is the exact opposite of a share split...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#52 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 7:09:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
@sheep - Wacha madharao... ;-) Kwani safcom ate ur mbuzi?

safcom @ PER of 20???? Please give me the math...


@VVS come on.. i really find the question strange... did you buy safcom without knowing this info???? price of 5.35 and an EPS of 0.26 as simple math as you'll ever get...

though the forward P.E.R will be less...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#53 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 7:27:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
safcom will post full year results of more than 20billion this year even with a HUGE investment expenditure in 2009...

in three years alot of investors critisizing the stock will eat their words...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
ProverB
#54 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 9:41:44 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
guru267 wrote:
safcom will post full year results of more than 20billion this year even with a HUGE investment expenditure in 2009...

in three years alot of investors critisizing the stock will eat their words...


Guru...no problem..as long as they beat profit margin for last year..plus have a higher growth rate in earnings..and return on equity, and of course...factor these on per share basissmile
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
2012
#55 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 9:53:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
safcom will post full year results of more than 20billion this year...


Why do you think so?
Please share a bit more...

BBI will solve it
:)
VituVingiSana
#56 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 1:18:48 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@sheep - Wacha madharao... ;-) Kwani safcom ate ur mbuzi?

safcom @ PER of 20???? Please give me the math...


@VVS come on.. i really find the question strange... did you buy safcom without knowing this info???? price of 5.35 and an EPS of 0.26 as simple math as you'll ever get...

though the forward P.E.R will be less...

I was getting at that P/E & PER are used interchangeably...

PER = P/E Ratio...

BTW, I bought safcom as speculative stock (a departure for me)... so yes I did not look at PER...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#57 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 2:13:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
guru267 wrote:
safcom will post full year results of more than 20billion this year...


Why do you think so?
Please share a bit more...



@2012 its just educated speculation based on half year results and projected revenue streams..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Djinn
#58 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 2:24:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@sheep - you have seen the forest for the trees...some ripostes here may be wishful thinking (perhaps some are still bleeding after investing in these shares), others are taking a text book look at the shares, others are citing surveys whose veracity or methodology (why Eastleigh - how about in Kinango, Wote, Kimilili, etc) cannot be proven.

I do not wish to harp on much further lest I take some flak myself for being naive and presuming to talk amongst knowledgeable people.

Fact is subscriber base may grow but revenues will continue to decline. Everyone wants to hawk data but no one knows how to do this without causing congestion. SOmeone said 3G - out of 14 million subscribers, a handful are using 3G (or can afford 3G devices - lets not tout 3G as a money spinner - you might as well as well say purple Jogoo will help Unga Limited's profitability).

Djinn
#59 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 2:33:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
and I'd like to make a small observation about Safaricom and Mpesa - but first let me mention what I have said before about Simu Ya Jamii.

Simu ya Jamii started off as a good idea on how to create employment and share talk time revenues with small business owners (some relying entirely on the device to make income). The idea was to even allow current subscribers to make a call just for the duration they need if they could not top up with Kshs 50 bob. And of course as part of its obligation to allow Universal Access to those who could not afford phones. Then it lowers the bar (or raises the bar depending on how you want to look at it) and brings a 20 bob card - no one goes to Simu ya Jamii anymore since 20 is accessible. Of course we have more litter now that we have 10 and 5 cards as well....

Back to Mpesa - and we have seen SK members getting excited about this and also various discussions. Anyway, now that the "retail" market has reached saturation, no one really makes money from Mpesa except Safaricom. Where we would have x outlets in 1 km/sq, we now have x3 outlets - revenues are spread thin (smaller slices of the cake). Some are worse off the others I hear. Now, I think the axe is hovering - no need to go to Djinn Photo Studio or Wazua Pharmacy to collect M-pesa - just go to pesa point or any Equity ATM (zero HR costs, zero capex on equipment or maintenance since the ATM is already there, therefore more margins). Djinn Photo Studio closes at 7pm - ATM open 24/7. ATM definitely has a float - Djinn Photo Studio cannot pay out Kshs 15,000....

Impunity
#60 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2010 2:43:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
the sage wrote:
@All, they'll probably higher some CEO who will lay off guys,freeze salaries and scrap bonuses as part of a "corporate strategy."
Pathetic.


Lugha ni ngumu kweli kweli.d'oh!

hire = higher.Sad
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
4 Pages<1234>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2025 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.