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Islam - The Beauty
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:Nandwa wrote:Not many have much knowledge about Hinduism or Buddhism.
However these religions don't need to sell themselves as fountains of peace. An interesting observation is that most monotheistic non-ethnic religions are always out on the prowl to proselytise people. When was the last time you heard a hindu guy encourage you to believe what he/she does? @masukuma, have you ever seen a nyeuthi Hindu? Have you seen nyeuthi Jewish? That’s not the question I asked... I asked - when was the last time you heard a Hindu encourage you to believe what he/she does? Umeambiwa na wangapi? Secondly- your classification of religions is wrong. Yes - there are animist beliefs (no two animist beliefs are the same) - some believe in ancestors , there are polytheistic religions like the Roman, Greek, Hindu. There are religions that have just ancestors and persons who went before you. There are monotheistic religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism and those random middle eastern religions like Samaritans, Yazidis. Buddhism is not a religion with a “god” per se. many atheists practice Buddhism. Thank you for expounding on the classification: Animist, polytheistic, monotheistic etc etc. I never meant the two were the only ones. Assuming we have narrowed in to the Monotheistic religions, which I called semetic, this is the focus now. According to Islam, the three religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam they have a common origin. And we in Islam we do not really consider these three as different. According to Muslim belief there is no such thing as Judaism, and there is no such thing as Christianity, we term them all Islam, meaning the teaching of Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (peace be upon them) was Islam. And we consider all of them Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were as Muslims. So what it means is that the teaching of these three great personalities, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad was one message and these terms Judaism and Christianity did not exist in the lifetime of the people who are supposed to have propounded the faith. So for example, if Moses was alive today and we asked him "what is your religion"... he would not answer that my religion is Judaism because this is the term which Moses never heard. This word Judaism is not in the old Testament, it is not in Torah, or Talmud... It is not to be found anywhere. But we expect Moses to say my religion is the religion of total submission to Almighty God, one word for this is Islam. Similarly, for Christianity, the same principle applies. Jesus Christ in his life time he did not hear the word Christianity, nor did he say I am a Christian. If Jesus was here, in is second coming, and if we asked him "O Jesus, what is your religion"... I do not expect him to answer "Christianity" because if he did, we might have to ask him what church do you belong? Is it Roman Catholic? Are Seventh Day Adventist, or is it Jehovah's witness? What Christianity do you belong to? So in other words, we expect Jesus to say that my religion is the religion of total submission to God's Will, and one word for that in Arabic is Islam. This is quite unlikely. I don't think I came across the term "religion" in the old testament and you will need to explain what it is to him and he would be surprised about this concept! His beliefs were the beliefs of his people. His God was the God of his people - the house of Israel... not a shared God. No other people could worship this God. Much later the Samaritans had their own religion. very similar to this thing we call Judaism and they had their own beliefs and worship places. There are more monotheistic religions than just the 3. Thank you for giving another name for religion. You can substitute that with belief. Thank you mentioning the word monotheistic (monotheism). In the fundamentals of these monotheistic beliefs, there is no difference as taught by the prophets Moses, Jesus and Muhammad pbut. There is no separate God for Moses and separate God for Jesus, there is no separate gGod for Muhammad... there is not separate God for an Indian and a separate God for Nyeuthis and separate God for Chinese... Almighty God is one, the Creator of everything in heaven and earth. This is teachings of all of the prophets. They all taught that we shall not worship any other god but Almighty God alone. We submit. And one word for that is aslam, Islam. The one God, The Almighty who dwells on Mt Kenya, not mecca. Thaaai.....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:Nandwa wrote:Not many have much knowledge about Hinduism or Buddhism.
However these religions don't need to sell themselves as fountains of peace. An interesting observation is that most monotheistic non-ethnic religions are always out on the prowl to proselytise people. When was the last time you heard a hindu guy encourage you to believe what he/she does? @masukuma, have you ever seen a nyeuthi Hindu? Have you seen nyeuthi Jewish? That’s not the question I asked... I asked - when was the last time you heard a Hindu encourage you to believe what he/she does? Umeambiwa na wangapi? Secondly- your classification of religions is wrong. Yes - there are animist beliefs (no two animist beliefs are the same) - some believe in ancestors , there are polytheistic religions like the Roman, Greek, Hindu. There are religions that have just ancestors and persons who went before you. There are monotheistic religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism and those random middle eastern religions like Samaritans, Yazidis. Buddhism is not a religion with a “god” per se. many atheists practice Buddhism. Thank you for expounding on the classification: Animist, polytheistic, monotheistic etc etc. I never meant the two were the only ones. Assuming we have narrowed in to the Monotheistic religions, which I called semetic, this is the focus now. According to Islam, the three religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam they have a common origin. And we in Islam we do not really consider these three as different. According to Muslim belief there is no such thing as Judaism, and there is no such thing as Christianity, we term them all Islam, meaning the teaching of Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (peace be upon them) was Islam. And we consider all of them Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were as Muslims. So what it means is that the teaching of these three great personalities, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad was one message and these terms Judaism and Christianity did not exist in the lifetime of the people who are supposed to have propounded the faith. So for example, if Moses was alive today and we asked him "what is your religion"... he would not answer that my religion is Judaism because this is the term which Moses never heard. This word Judaism is not in the old Testament, it is not in Torah, or Talmud... It is not to be found anywhere. But we expect Moses to say my religion is the religion of total submission to Almighty God, one word for this is Islam. Similarly, for Christianity, the same principle applies. Jesus Christ in his life time he did not hear the word Christianity, nor did he say I am a Christian. If Jesus was here, in is second coming, and if we asked him "O Jesus, what is your religion"... I do not expect him to answer "Christianity" because if he did, we might have to ask him what church do you belong? Is it Roman Catholic? Are Seventh Day Adventist, or is it Jehovah's witness? What Christianity do you belong to? So in other words, we expect Jesus to say that my religion is the religion of total submission to God's Will, and one word for that in Arabic is Islam. This is quite unlikely. I don't think I came across the term "religion" in the old testament and you will need to explain what it is to him and he would be surprised about this concept! His beliefs were the beliefs of his people. His God was the God of his people - the house of Israel... not a shared God. No other people could worship this God. Much later the Samaritans had their own religion. very similar to this thing we call Judaism and they had their own beliefs and worship places. There are more monotheistic religions than just the 3. Thank you for giving another name for religion. You can substitute that with belief. Thank you mentioning the word monotheistic (monotheism). In the fundamentals of these monotheistic beliefs, there is no difference as taught by the prophets Moses, Jesus and Muhammad pbut. There is no separate God for Moses and separate God for Jesus, there is no separate gGod for Muhammad... there is not separate God for an Indian and a separate God for Nyeuthis and separate God for Chinese... Almighty God is one, the Creator of everything in heaven and earth. This is teachings of all of the prophets. They all taught that we shall not worship any other god but Almighty God alone. We submit. And one word for that is aslam, Islam. The one God, The Almighty who dwells on Mt Kenya, not mecca. Thaaai..... The one God, the Almighty does not dwell on a mountain. He does not dwell in Mecca. He does not dwell in a church. He does not dwell in mosque... Do not allow your mind perceive God as a man enclosed in house or perched on a mountain... But all belong to Almighty God... the mountains, the hills, the rivers, the sun, the moon, the stars... Do not be ignorant brother. Psalm 138:2 "I will bow down toward your holy temple...". Genesis 28:16-18 "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God...". 1 Chronicles 6:47-49 "...the house of God." "Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba)..." Quran 22:26-27
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:Nandwa wrote:Not many have much knowledge about Hinduism or Buddhism.
However these religions don't need to sell themselves as fountains of peace. An interesting observation is that most monotheistic non-ethnic religions are always out on the prowl to proselytise people. When was the last time you heard a hindu guy encourage you to believe what he/she does? Some of these things are state policies for reasons that go beyond religion. For example the BJP India has sought proselytes for yoga across continents.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:There is no beauty in religion. Religion advances purity in human beings that can never be achieved, therefore a falacy. Purity is possible. The only thing is that it is costly. Otherwise beauty isn't about attainability. The less attainable a thing is, the more beautiful. At least in many cases.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:There is no beauty in religion. Religion advances purity in human beings that can never be achieved, therefore a falacy. Purity is possible. The only thing is that it is costly. Otherwise beauty isn't about attainability. The less attainable a thing is, the more beautiful. At least in many cases. Purity is possible... you just need to declare what you consider “pure”. Others can use their own purity metrics- you just have to use yours. Ikiwa ngumu? Revisit!! Reduce a number of items- add others. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/16/2009 Posts: 994
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God and religions remains the most ancient human inventions. Add to that some ancient texts declared as holy and you have a perfect human control tool at literally no cost. Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Gatheuzi wrote:God and religions remains the most ancient human inventions. Add to that some ancient texts declared as holy and you have a perfect human control tool at literally no cost. Religion is not a human invention. God revealed himself to humans. For one, ancient scripts that are deemed holy are produced under strictly controlled conditions and it's not just decree that makes a text holy. Kindly check on the Dvaita tradition in Indian philosophy and see how the scriptures are recognized. Particularly the Mimamsa and the 'enumerationists'. And also, if we study ancient scripts we find that they describe a human model that can receive and transmit information by virtue of possession. Such possession can be shown to be true in emerging theories of mind. My suspicion is that we have lost the meanings of ancient symbols to the degree of totally misunderstanding of religion. When we allow for such origins of religion, then we not only realize that Islam is a true religion, but there's also a post-Islam world. Not forgetting post-christian religious life.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/16/2009 Posts: 994
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tycho wrote:Gatheuzi wrote:God and religions remains the most ancient human inventions. Add to that some ancient texts declared as holy and you have a perfect human control tool at literally no cost. Religion is not a human invention. God revealed himself to humans. For one, ancient scripts that are deemed holy are produced under strictly controlled conditions and it's not just decree that makes a text holy. Kindly check on the Dvaita tradition in Indian philosophy and see how the scriptures are recognized. Particularly the Mimamsa and the 'enumerationists'. And also, if we study ancient scripts we find that they describe a human model that can receive and transmit information by virtue of possession. Such possession can be shown to be true in emerging theories of mind. My suspicion is that we have lost the meanings of ancient symbols to the degree of totally misunderstanding of religion. When we allow for such origins of religion, then we not only realize that Islam is a true religion, but there's also a post-Islam world. Not forgetting post-christian religious life. It's funny that God could find it fit to talk to Ancient humans but not to us today. I know he works in amazing ways but bible, Koran etc or any book for that matter is the worst form of communication he could choose. Why not speak to us in person instead of asking Moses to see him secretly in a mountain yet he could easily speak to all of us at one go (the book says it's because of our sins, we are unfit in his presence - but if you used your head it's clear that you did not create yourself. The creater should have been more careful and thoughtful in his creation to create a more perfect being that could please him) I used to take the bible serious until I found numerous contradictions and absurd laws no single believer could practice especially in the old testament. No wonder they invented the new testament to create more relevance. Unfortunately if you find the period gap between when first gospel was written and when Jesus lived there is over 20 years gap which makes you wonder if they had such a good memory to remember all that. I must confess I am not well versed in Islam but if you disprove one deity, you disprove them all. Finally for those who knew our own Kenyan God "Wanyonyi" who died of malaria. Don't be amazed if 100 years from today people will believe that he was indeed God! Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,721
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Gatheuzi wrote:tycho wrote:Gatheuzi wrote:God and religions remains the most ancient human inventions. Add to that some ancient texts declared as holy and you have a perfect human control tool at literally no cost. Religion is not a human invention. God revealed himself to humans. For one, ancient scripts that are deemed holy are produced under strictly controlled conditions and it's not just decree that makes a text holy. Kindly check on the Dvaita tradition in Indian philosophy and see how the scriptures are recognized. Particularly the Mimamsa and the 'enumerationists'. And also, if we study ancient scripts we find that they describe a human model that can receive and transmit information by virtue of possession. Such possession can be shown to be true in emerging theories of mind. My suspicion is that we have lost the meanings of ancient symbols to the degree of totally misunderstanding of religion. When we allow for such origins of religion, then we not only realize that Islam is a true religion, but there's also a post-Islam world. Not forgetting post-christian religious life. It's funny that God could find it fit to talk to Ancient humans but not to us today. I know he works in amazing ways but bible, Koran etc or any book for that matter is the worst form of communication he could choose. Why not speak to us in person instead of asking Moses to see him secretly in a mountain yet he could easily speak to all of us at one go (the book says it's because of our sins, we are unfit in his presence - but if you used your head it's clear that you did not create yourself. The creater should have been more careful and thoughtful in his creation to create a more perfect being that could please him) I used to take the bible serious until I found numerous contradictions and absurd laws no single believer could practice especially in the old testament. No wonder they invented the new testament to create more relevance. Unfortunately if you find the period gap between when first gospel was written and when Jesus lived there is over 20 years gap which makes you wonder if they had such a good memory to remember all that. I must confess I am not well versed in Islam but if you disprove one deity, you disprove them all. Finally for those who knew our own Kenyan God "Wanyonyi" who died of malaria. Don't be amazed if 100 years from today people will believe that he was indeed God! If you are alone in the world or if you never have to deal with people you do not need God or a religion. In that world science is enough. You deal with the world as you see it and you will just be fine. The more people you have to deal with the more you realize that religion is important and that is why the people who appeal to religion the most are politicians. Go try and lead a group of 100 people and get them to do a particular thing for a period of more than a year and then come here to report. Utakuja hapa kama unaita Yesu or Mohammed. Religion is like a language but at a higher level. Imagine instead of having the languages that we have today every human being was born speaking their own language. Unasimama hapo nje unasema "habari zenu" and nobody understands you because every one has his own language that only they understand and they are also trying to tell other people something but no one is understanding. This thing called free will is the same thing. Kila mtu ako na vile yuko na vile anaona dunia. Religion is a spiritual language that unites. People who were previously not able to understand one another now can and they can share a spiritual union. This is something extremely powerful. People who try to argue against religion by siting its contradictions and finding errors in religious texts miss the whole point of its existence and its power. The power and relevance of religion is not in the texts but in what it does and means to its believers.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Kusadikika wrote:Gatheuzi wrote:tycho wrote:Gatheuzi wrote:God and religions remains the most ancient human inventions. Add to that some ancient texts declared as holy and you have a perfect human control tool at literally no cost. Religion is not a human invention. God revealed himself to humans. For one, ancient scripts that are deemed holy are produced under strictly controlled conditions and it's not just decree that makes a text holy. Kindly check on the Dvaita tradition in Indian philosophy and see how the scriptures are recognized. Particularly the Mimamsa and the 'enumerationists'. And also, if we study ancient scripts we find that they describe a human model that can receive and transmit information by virtue of possession. Such possession can be shown to be true in emerging theories of mind. My suspicion is that we have lost the meanings of ancient symbols to the degree of totally misunderstanding of religion. When we allow for such origins of religion, then we not only realize that Islam is a true religion, but there's also a post-Islam world. Not forgetting post-christian religious life. It's funny that God could find it fit to talk to Ancient humans but not to us today. I know he works in amazing ways but bible, Koran etc or any book for that matter is the worst form of communication he could choose. Why not speak to us in person instead of asking Moses to see him secretly in a mountain yet he could easily speak to all of us at one go (the book says it's because of our sins, we are unfit in his presence - but if you used your head it's clear that you did not create yourself. The creater should have been more careful and thoughtful in his creation to create a more perfect being that could please him) I used to take the bible serious until I found numerous contradictions and absurd laws no single believer could practice especially in the old testament. No wonder they invented the new testament to create more relevance. Unfortunately if you find the period gap between when first gospel was written and when Jesus lived there is over 20 years gap which makes you wonder if they had such a good memory to remember all that. I must confess I am not well versed in Islam but if you disprove one deity, you disprove them all. Finally for those who knew our own Kenyan God "Wanyonyi" who died of malaria. Don't be amazed if 100 years from today people will believe that he was indeed God! If you are alone in the world or if you never have to deal with people you do not need God or a religion. In that world science is enough. You deal with the world as you see it and you will just be fine. The more people you have to deal with the more you realize that religion is important and that is why the people who appeal to religion the most are politicians. Go try and lead a group of 100 people and get them to do a particular thing for a period of more than a year and then come here to report. Utakuja hapa kama unaita Yesu or Mohammed. Religion is like a language but at a higher level. Imagine instead of having the languages that we have today every human being was born speaking their own language. Unasimama hapo nje unasema habari nzenu and nobody understands you because every one has his own language that only they understand and they are also trying to tell other people something but no one is understanding. This thing called free will is the same thing. Kila mtu ako na vile yuko na vile anaona dunia. Religion is a spiritual language that unites. People who were previously not able to understand one another now can and they can share a spiritual union. This is something extremely powerful. People who try to argue against religion by siting its contradictions and finding errors in religious texts miss the whole point of its existence and its power. The power and relevance of religion is not in the texts but in what it does and means to its believers. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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