wazua Mon, Dec 23, 2024
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

9 Pages<12345>»
ARM Cement HY18
Fyatu
#41 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:30:39 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
maka wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
maka wrote:
Devki Group subsidiary National Cement enters into an agreement to acquire all cement and non-cement assets and business of ARM Cement PLC for Sh 5.0 Billion.


Wapi link ndungu @Maka ??

I had suspected Devki would buy all my assets but not for a measly 5 billions. It is a Gujarati thing.


Post 11,001... 😊

Hii hapa...

https://www.google.com/a...rm-cement-248610/%3famp



Shukran rafiki. Wacha nikule jeuri yangu polepole for being a rabbit investor rather than an assassin(read a book recommended by @VVS in another thread to understand what a rabbit means).
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
rwitre
#42 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:55:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/8/2018
Posts: 507
Location: Nairobi
littledove wrote:
https://af.reuters.com/article/kenyaNews/idAFL5N22X16A
NAIROBI, May 21 (Reuters) - The assets of Kenya’s ARM Cement have been sold to the National Cement Company for $50 million, its administrator said on Tuesday.

ARM Cement was put under administration last August by some of its creditors over a $190 million debt and its shares were suspended from the Nairobi bourse. It has debts with a range of creditors, including local commercial banks.


The transaction, which applies to ARM Cement’s Kenyan assets only, is subject to regulatory approvals, the statement from the administrator said.



Deal in the best interest of the creditors. In short shareholders can go drying.
NSE can be brutal Pray
the deal
#43 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:46:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...smile
littledove
#44 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:58:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/1/2014
Posts: 903
Location: sky
rwitre wrote:
littledove wrote:
https://af.reuters.com/article/kenyaNews/idAFL5N22X16A
NAIROBI, May 21 (Reuters) - The assets of Kenya’s ARM Cement have been sold to the National Cement Company for $50 million, its administrator said on Tuesday.

ARM Cement was put under administration last August by some of its creditors over a $190 million debt and its shares were suspended from the Nairobi bourse. It has debts with a range of creditors, including local commercial banks.


The transaction, which applies to ARM Cement’s Kenyan assets only, is subject to regulatory approvals, the statement from the administrator said.



Deal in the best interest of the creditors. In short shareholders can go drying.
NSE can be brutal Pray

According to the statement they are acquiring "AS A GOING CONCERN" in accounting term what does that mean? Any way i think the administrators have a duty to clarify for the sake of all stakeholders
There are only two emotions in the stock market, fear and hope. The problem is, you hope when you should fear and fear when you should hope
obiero
#45 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:58:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,516
Location: nairobi
the deal wrote:
Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...smile

Very togeeza.. However there remains a grey spot in the handling of the Open Offer which will have to be addressed/resolved at the 10th June AGM

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
muandiwambeu
#46 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:40:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
the deal wrote:
Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...smile

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

They can apply for liquidation. That will translate to reneging on the deal especially for shareholder's who have registered 1st charge on assets they claim to own to prevent impairment.
https://citizentv.co.ke/...-for-arm-cement-248610/

What about foreign subsidiary holdings. The reporter has left a grey area there but by default the buyer owns every asset the mother had.

Shareholder's including cdc, blame it on catastrophic cyclone Idai for all there is to care or do what other Kenyans drying from hunger are doing.
Otherwise go sue your brains and demand it be silenced for sacrificing the body.
VVS, xxxx and et al poleni saaaaaaaana.

And for others who are at crossroads, run away from kqueers, and the like as if u have seen a lightening bolt .
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
xxxxx
#47 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 3:00:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 503
muandiwambeu wrote:
the deal wrote:
Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...smile

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

They can apply for liquidation. That will translate to reneging on the deal especially for shareholder's who have registered 1st charge on assets they claim to own to prevent impairment.
https://citizentv.co.ke/...-for-arm-cement-248610/

What about foreign subsidiary holdings. The reporter has left a grey area there but by default the buyer owns every asset the mother had.

Shareholder's including cdc, blame it on catastrophic cyclone Idai for all there is to care or do what other Kenyans drying from hunger are doing.
Otherwise go sue your brains and demand it be silenced for sacrificing the body.
VVS, xxxx and et al poleni saaaaaaaana.

And for others who are at crossroads, run away from kqueers, and the like as if u have seen a lightening bolt .


You know nothing, Jon Snow
murchr
#48 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 6:04:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
obiero
#49 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:02:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,516
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:

How did @vvs get this one wrong.. He's always right you know. He uses fundamental analysis with deep data.. How did he not see the imminent demise as forecasted by @Yasserbigchair

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#50 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:12:10 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
There is a lesson to be learnt.

I use an investment process.
I run the visible variables through it. The numbers from the Annual Report. And other data from other published sources. And my assumptions gleaned from experience, newspapers, visits, etc.

I have tweaked my process since ARM but that doesn't mean the process was fundamentally flawed. After all it also led to KK.
And has done so to KenRe, Unga and Centum. I am quite comfortable with these.

"Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that 'Price is what you pay; value is what you get.' Whether we're talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down." - Warren Buffett

No, I do NOT get every call right. I just need to get a few (significant/core) calls right. Someone who claims to be 100% right should be a billionaire many times over. So if I start waxing lyrical about getting ALL my calls right, please call me out.

Data I used included:
- CDC investing $50mn into ARM which, apparently, they did not. The irony is that 2 years later that's what NCC/Devki is paying for ALL of ARM's Kenyan assets.
- The NAV. I did apply a significant discount.
- The economy. There was a light at the end of the tunnel but the tunnel, as it turned out, was very long.
- Change in the board and management was imminent. There were new directors and a new Chairman ready to go. Also a new CEO.

The process also takes into account the type of investment. I do not go from "nothing to Core" but usually build it up over time.
From nothing to Tier 3 - Total Tier 3 is less than 5% of my portfolio
Tier 3 to Tier 2 - Learning more about the firm/s. Going to AGMs. Reading a lot more. They may get stuck in limbo here. I need to learn when to sell.
Tier 2 to Core - That's where I have what some call "conviction"

Then I wait and monitor. This is where it gets boring but I am old so I don't want too much excitement. There may be good and bad quarters/halves. But there is little going on except making steady gains. The firms chug along. Monitoring and Patience are key. And even then one may get it wrong since complacency may set in.

I think the announcement that CDC would invest $50mn was the most important factor but until the money is disbursed do not believe it. This is an IMPORTANT lesson I have learnt.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#51 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:34:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,516
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
There is a lesson to be learnt.

I use an investment process.
I run the visible variables through it. The numbers from the Annual Report. And other data from other published sources. And my assumptions gleaned from experience, newspapers, visits, etc.

I have tweaked my process since ARM but that doesn't mean the process was fundamentally flawed. After all it also led to KK.
And has done so to KenRe, Unga and Centum. I am quite comfortable with these.

"Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that 'Price is what you pay; value is what you get.' Whether we're talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down." - Warren Buffett

No, I do NOT get every call right. I just need to get a few (significant/core) calls right. Someone who claims to be 100% right should be a billionaire many times over. So if I start waxing lyrical about getting ALL my calls right, please call me out.

Data I used included:
- CDC investing $50mn into ARM which, apparently, they did not. The irony is that 2 years later that's what NCC/Devki is paying for ALL of ARM's Kenyan assets.
- The NAV. I did apply a significant discount.
- The economy. There was a light at the end of the tunnel but the tunnel, as it turned out, was very long.
- Change in the board and management was imminent. There were new directors and a new Chairman ready to go. Also a new CEO.

The process also takes into account the type of investment. I do not go from "nothing to Core" but usually build it up over time.
From nothing to Tier 3 - Total Tier 3 is less than 5% of my portfolio
Tier 3 to Tier 2 - Learning more about the firm/s. Going to AGMs. Reading a lot more. They may get stuck in limbo here. I need to learn when to sell.
Tier 2 to Core - That's where I have what some call "conviction"

Then I wait and monitor. This is where it gets boring but I am old so I don't want too much excitement. There may be good and bad quarters/halves. But there is little going on except making steady gains. The firms chug along. Monitoring and Patience are key. And even then one may get it wrong since complacency may set in.

I think the announcement that CDC would invest $50mn was the most important factor but until the money is disbursed do not believe it. This is an IMPORTANT lesson I have learnt.

Eloquent eulogy.. RIP ARM

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Fyatu
#52 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:50:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
maka wrote:
Devki Group subsidiary National Cement enters into an agreement to acquire all cement and non-cement assets and business of ARM Cement PLC for Sh 5.0 Billion.



Surely, management and administrators should be courteous enough and send shareholders a circular that provides details of this deal plus other disclosures(e.g., what happens to Tanzania assets and how much are they worth etc). We cannot be relying on media who provide scanty information
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
VituVingiSana
#53 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:58:06 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
Fyatu wrote:
maka wrote:
Devki Group subsidiary National Cement enters into an agreement to acquire all cement and non-cement assets and business of ARM Cement PLC for Sh 5.0 Billion.

Surely, management and administrators should be courteous enough and send shareholders a circular that provides details of this deal plus other disclosures(e.g., what happens to Tanzania assets and how much are they worth etc). We cannot be relying on media who provide scanty information
The document or press release that was released by the Administrators was scanty. One can't blame the media for not having sufficient information.
I do not think the Administrators will send anything to shareholders given their clients are the banks not the shareholders.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Fyatu
#54 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:27:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
maka wrote:
Devki Group subsidiary National Cement enters into an agreement to acquire all cement and non-cement assets and business of ARM Cement PLC for Sh 5.0 Billion.

Surely, management and administrators should be courteous enough and send shareholders a circular that provides details of this deal plus other disclosures(e.g., what happens to Tanzania assets and how much are they worth etc). We cannot be relying on media who provide scanty information
The document or press release that was released by the Administrators was scanty. One can't blame the media for not having sufficient information.
I do not think the Administrators will send anything to shareholders given their clients are the banks not the shareholders.



In that case the board should provide more information
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
VituVingiSana
#55 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:34:56 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
Fyatu wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
maka wrote:
Devki Group subsidiary National Cement enters into an agreement to acquire all cement and non-cement assets and business of ARM Cement PLC for Sh 5.0 Billion.

Surely, management and administrators should be courteous enough and send shareholders a circular that provides details of this deal plus other disclosures(e.g., what happens to Tanzania assets and how much are they worth etc). We cannot be relying on media who provide scanty information
The document or press release that was released by the Administrators was scanty. One can't blame the media for not having sufficient information.
I do not think the Administrators will send anything to shareholders given their clients are the banks not the shareholders.

In that case the board should provide more information
Is there a board under Administration?
It seems the Administrators have all the say in this. Perhaps the creditors have some say given they appointed the Administrators.

Any cash left over will be eaten up by the Administrators. They have no incentive to leave anything on the table.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#56 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:50:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,516
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
maka wrote:
Devki Group subsidiary National Cement enters into an agreement to acquire all cement and non-cement assets and business of ARM Cement PLC for Sh 5.0 Billion.

Surely, management and administrators should be courteous enough and send shareholders a circular that provides details of this deal plus other disclosures(e.g., what happens to Tanzania assets and how much are they worth etc). We cannot be relying on media who provide scanty information
The document or press release that was released by the Administrators was scanty. One can't blame the media for not having sufficient information.
I do not think the Administrators will send anything to shareholders given their clients are the banks not the shareholders.

In that case the board should provide more information
Is there a board under Administration?
It seems the Administrators have all the say in this. Perhaps the creditors have some say given they appointed the Administrators.

Any cash left over will be eaten up by the Administrators. They have no incentive to leave anything on the table.

Minority shareholders with meaningless shares.. It's just the way it is. Poleni

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#57 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:53:14 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
maka wrote:
Devki Group subsidiary National Cement enters into an agreement to acquire all cement and non-cement assets and business of ARM Cement PLC for Sh 5.0 Billion.

Surely, management and administrators should be courteous enough and send shareholders a circular that provides details of this deal plus other disclosures(e.g., what happens to Tanzania assets and how much are they worth etc). We cannot be relying on media who provide scanty information
The document or press release that was released by the Administrators was scanty. One can't blame the media for not having sufficient information.
I do not think the Administrators will send anything to shareholders given their clients are the banks not the shareholders.

In that case the board should provide more information
Is there a board under Administration?
It seems the Administrators have all the say in this. Perhaps the creditors have some say given they appointed the Administrators.

Any cash left over will be eaten up by the Administrators. They have no incentive to leave anything on the table.

Minority shareholders with meaningless shares.. It's just the way it is. Poleni

Agreed. Look at what's happening in EAPCC, NBK, KQ. Or in GoK-controlled firms. KPLC. Even KenyaRe went through some nutty behavior and I do not think the saga is over.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#58 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 4:50:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
the deal wrote:
Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...smile


1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US.

2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey.
Life is short. Live passionately.
obiero
#59 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 4:57:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,516
Location: nairobi
sparkly wrote:
the deal wrote:
Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...smile


1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US.

2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey.

1. What is a government guarantee?
2. KLM Heathrow additional slot is currently used by KQ as the 'inkind' KLM contributions.. With the JV still being active

But today we are here to mourn ARM. Let us give our last respects without drama

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
sparkly
#60 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:04:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
the deal wrote:
Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...smile


1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US.

2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey.

1. What is a government guarantee?
2. KLM Heathrow additional slot is currently used by KQ as the 'inkind' KLM contributions.. With the JV still being active

But today we are here to mourn ARM. Let us give our last respects without drama


You are too emotionally in KQ to think straight but just understand that KQ is still in lots of debt and its assets can be siezed by debtors.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
9 Pages<12345>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2024 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.