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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Mtu Biz wrote:
@Alphdoti
No thanks.
Tukutane mbele... :)
Mbele wapi? 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:@Mtu Biz that is an interesting story. I noted something though: you're still guilty of being one sided (ok let's call it two sided) i.e. your old folks church thing as evidenced by your kids going to church, and the nature part. If you want to be honest and whole-round, examine other religious books too. There are two major religions currently: Christianity and Islam. You need to read the Quran without prejudice, then that way you'll have three sides of the story.
Forget prejudices and do thorough research... why would a sane person trade one set of shackles for another? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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AlphDoti wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:
@Alphdoti
No thanks.
Tukutane mbele... :)
Mbele wapi?  The sad face is because i will be burning in hell ama? Anyway... enjoy your journey in the few years we both have ahead. Let me and others enjoy ours.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Mtu Biz wrote:
@Alphdoti
Belief systems have the same inherent character.
Duality.
We are right and they are wrong.
I'm not interested in going from one to another.
There exists information/knowledge out there about what/who we are and what this reality is about beyond the drama of duality.
Iam integrating this information on my own terms at my own pace and making my own conclusions based on my own experiences.
This path resonates with me.
@mtubiz, yours has been quite a journey bro. And I can tell you are really searching for answers. That stuff is too deep for some of us. @ngogoyo and the rest of us are cowards who blend in with the crowds while battling with unanswered questions on the inside. Don't rock the boat philosophy. Luckily for us, the so-called Christian believers are so fake to discover our act.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Mtu Biz wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:
@Alphdoti
No thanks.
Tukutane mbele... :)
Mbele wapi? The sad face is because i will be burning in hell ama? Anyway... enjoy your journey in the few years we both have ahead. Let me and others enjoy ours. No, no... I'm not telling you any of that. No one is condemning you to anywhere in the "mbele". What I'm talking about is to be fair and objective in subject matter: for example Religion and Family. Get all sources of information about what is available of the any other faiths, including atheism. Then you get convinced, and can talk about the subject with full information. With actual facts about. 360 degrees view.... I hope you understand my point?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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understood @alphdoti. Last thing... A 360 view is only possible from outside the thing you are viewing.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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Ngogoyo wrote:My dilemma,
I can’t seem to get motivated to attend church nor listen to prayers or read bible.
Am a catholic by upbringing but I can’t ever recall even one time when I ever enjoyed being in the church or serving in the church. My parents brought me very well in the church and I have an obligation to do the same for my son and wife.
I was an altar boy way back and in high school I was an official in the CA but after high school I couldn’t stomach being hypocritical and just doing something to make others happy.
I stopped going to church and I only do if there is a burial or wedding and even in these times, I detest the readings and preaching so I look for all ways to escape them. I hate the hypocritical long prayers.
Am not like @Humbugler but I agree with most of his points on dislike for religion
My wife has a different sect by upbringing so I just allowed her to continue but I got to start going to church (catholic) and take her and son with me. How can I motivate myself?
I do appreciate the role of religion in bringing cohesion in the society, comforting people and giving a purpose to life but that’s where it ends for me. I have a problem believing in much of the principles like Jesus, Jews, Israel, contentious stories, the bible etc.
I do believe there is a higher power and for sure I came from somewhere!
There is a real problem in the current church set up and its money minded policies which they always try to mask. Elders/officials being holier than thou on Sunday but source of their wealth is evil, immoral etc.
I can’t understand with all these churches and mosques, where is there so much corruption, killing, theft etc in the society. I can’t manage to reconcile all that.
Ooh and they tell me judge not!!!
@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?
Boss, you are me! This sounds like my story. I was raised Catholic too and I was an alter boy all through secondary school. My suggestion is, keep seeking God and not church. Eventually you will know. The best thing about church is you will find like-minded people or people you can walk with. Decide what principles you want for your family and then look for a church that best answers that. Be clear when you say that churches are money minded because if you look deeper, you might find that they are actually using the funds well and you know that they need the money to pay staff and bills not forgetting the financing of projects and poor students and children. Many churches now have AGMs where they present the figures and budgets to their congregants. So do not let the money issue deter you. What I say is, when I give, I do not give to man and if the man misuses the offering then he will answer to God who will still bless you.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Mtu Biz wrote:understood @alphdoti.
Last thing...
A 360 view is only possible from outside the thing you are viewing. You cannot afford to rely on others to give you input and out output for the black-box which you are viewing from outside! You should ask yourself, for example the experience yo had, it was you who really experiencing it... You analyzed what you were going through the inside working of it, the input, the output etc. Now similarly, 360 view of all means what you really know about them. Not what you have heard, not what you have read in the newspapers, not what you have seen on television, not what your teacher or professor says, not what your neighbours or friends say or what the priest or minister of your church say... But what you have come to understand from basic facts, historical, scriptural facts about system of life, which you are viewing. Not even what you have witnessed through behavior of some who claim to follow it, because I don't think I have to tell in objective person, for example that a Christian is not necessarily an example of life of Christ...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote: @Alphadoti
With all due respect. Please don't ruin this thread with your Islamic teachings/perspectives. I respect your religion but please take it to the other numerous threads where you post numerically. Please!!
Allow us this one thread for us who are searching or questioning with an open mind. I was about to quash Alpha glad you did it Alphadoti, tafathali.....that dogma called islam is still religion. @Mtu biz. Interesting. Av been watching alot of documentaries about Near death Experience and that kinda of stuff and indeed I there's something at the end of the tunnel "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote: @Alphadoti
With all due respect. Please don't ruin this thread with your Islamic teachings/perspectives. I respect your religion but please take it to the other numerous threads where you post numerically. Please!!
Allow us this one thread for us who are searching or questioning with an open mind. I was about to quash Alpha glad you did it Alphadoti, tafathali.....that dogma called islam is still religion. @Mtu biz. Interesting. Av been watching alot of documentaries about Near death Experience and that kinda of stuff and indeed I there's something at the end of the tunnel So a church can be discussed and a mosque shouldn't be? How is that open mind? Read the thread, it say religion and family... Look at my posts keenly here, I'm advocating for open-mindedness and after that we can stand in judgement about 360 degrees view.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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AlphDoti wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:understood @alphdoti.
Last thing...
A 360 view is only possible from outside the thing you are viewing. You cannot afford to rely on others to give you input and out output for the black-box which you are viewing from outside! You should ask yourself, for example the experience yo had, it was you who really experiencing it... You analyzed what you were going through the inside working of it, the input, the output etc. Now similarly, 360 view of all means what you really know about them. Not what you have heard, not what you have read in the newspapers, not what you have seen on television, not what your teacher or professor says, not what your neighbours or friends say or what the priest or minister of your church say... But what you have come to understand from basic facts, historical, scriptural facts about system of life, which you are viewing. Not even what you have witnessed through behavior of some who claim to follow it, because I don't think I have to tell in objective person, for example that a Christian is not necessarily an example of life of Christ... To go 360 view, "3D", isometric, vs orthographic projections e.t.c or embrace 4D views.  am really scratching my head A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,703
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radio wrote:@ngogoyo, how long have you had this struggle? Do you think it is a phase of life you can overcome over time?
Anyone who has been down this road of unbelief and changed later? Mother Teresa struggled with it for most of her life. And in fact, that appears to be the case. A new, innocuously titled book, Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light (Doubleday), consisting primarily of correspondence between Teresa and her confessors and superiors over a period of 66 years, provides the spiritual counterpoint to a life known mostly through its works. The letters, many of them preserved against her wishes (she had requested that they be destroyed but was overruled by her church), reveal that for the last nearly half-century of her life she felt no presence of God whatsoever--or, as the book's compiler and editor, the Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk, writes, "neither in her heart or in the eucharist."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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...like having a good car and not enjoying it, because you haven't realized its (full) potential. Most people here (investors) are risk takers. Want to know, want to experience.... My suggestion, why not delve fully in? Do it for fun.. What's the harm? The Bible says 'Seek the face of The Lord and .....'
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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FRM2011 wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:
@Alphdoti
Belief systems have the same inherent character.
Duality.
We are right and they are wrong.
I'm not interested in going from one to another.
There exists information/knowledge out there about what/who we are and what this reality is about beyond the drama of duality.
Iam integrating this information on my own terms at my own pace and making my own conclusions based on my own experiences.
This path resonates with me.
@mtubiz, yours has been quite a journey bro. And I can tell you are really searching for answers. That stuff is too deep for some of us. @ngogoyo and the rest of us are cowards who blend in with the crowds while battling with unanswered questions on the inside. Don't rock the boat philosophy. Luckily for us, the so-called Christian believers are so fake to discover our act. Maybe it sounds sharp and with it to attack Christians, but even the Bible is clear; only God can truly know the heart of Man! It has nothing to do with authenticity! When Samuel went to Jesse's house to anoint the new king: Quote:But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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FRM2011 wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:Ngogoyo wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:My my..
We are a big grouping. I also suffer the same dilemma. Initially I used to get into arguments Humbuglar style and strongly denounce religion for all the hypocrisy it stands for. But after getting kids and a family, I have mellowed down and accepted its place in society.
I don't go to church but my wife takes the kids to church although she may skip one or two sometimes. The kids get a lot of religious education and dogma in school so to avoid confusing them, its best you take them to church because society demands it.
dont you feel a sense of 'losing out' when you don't accompany your children to church or pray with them?
I would recommend you read about other religions. - Islam is easy to get, its simply Christianity which has been radicalized (or stuck in the middle ages) and turned into a political system
- Hinduism is very interesting and in my opinion has done the most to explain origin, spirits, afterlife and the existence of a higher power.
- Budhism is all about self (have to confess I have not given it enough time)
Reading this convinced me that religion exists to explain death and afterlife. I am very sure people are suspicious of each other. . Its comforting and at the same time worrtying that i am not alone in this. I will study Hinduism (of course for sport), Islam no. My wife would bring the whole church for prayers if she was to see the Koran in our house.
I fully agree with your sentiments. That is very true...... you can study any other religion for whatever reason but not Islam ~ Radicalization tingz. I would even report you to the local chief, OCS, Family wote and your employer. Also hold a night of vigil and prayer for you. Of course conjugal rights will go until you recover your senses, siwezi na Muslim  Told you they are dangerous, these followers of Christ. We do not kill you when you convert to other religions; feel free to do so
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:@Mtu Biz that is an interesting story. I noted something though: you're still guilty of being one sided (ok let's call it two sided) i.e. your old folks church thing as evidenced by your kids going to church, and the nature part. If you want to be honest and whole-round, examine other religious books too. There are two major religions currently: Christianity and Islam. You need to read the Quran without prejudice, then that way you'll have three sides of the story.
Forget prejudices and do thorough research... Look, if one is looking for a path, they shouldn't go with the one that majority are in but what is right. Stop trying to confuse people with the fallacy of the false dichotomy! It is not an issue of Christianity and Islam only.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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hamburglar wrote:You are dangerously close to liberation the moment you start questioning religion and gods.
I have never had any doubts about my atheism. Not even for one minute.
You guys all have doubts about religion and that right there speaks volumes. Something is definitely amiss somewhere.
I honestly feel sorry for religious people, they are depriving themselves of a lot of happiness with all that nonsense.
I have never been so sure of anything in my life like how sure I am about atheism. I am more sure of this than I am of tycho being clinically insane. And we all know that Tycho is a certified nutjob. Hi burglar Does the supernatural exist? Or is everything explained by science?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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Disentangling From exotic religions and chains of worshipping other people gods was one of the best decisions so far. work to prosper
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Tokyo wrote: Disentangling From exotic religions and chains of worshipping other people gods was one of the best decisions so far. So you worship who now?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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Lolest! wrote:Tokyo wrote: Disentangling From exotic religions and chains of worshipping other people gods was one of the best decisions so far. So you worship who now? A proud ATHEIST work to prosper
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