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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Angelica _ann wrote:Ngogoyo wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:My my..
We are a big grouping. I also suffer the same dilemma. Initially I used to get into arguments Humbuglar style and strongly denounce religion for all the hypocrisy it stands for. But after getting kids and a family, I have mellowed down and accepted its place in society.
I don't go to church but my wife takes the kids to church although she may skip one or two sometimes. The kids get a lot of religious education and dogma in school so to avoid confusing them, its best you take them to church because society demands it.
dont you feel a sense of 'losing out' when you don't accompany your children to church or pray with them?
I would recommend you read about other religions. - Islam is easy to get, its simply Christianity which has been radicalized (or stuck in the middle ages) and turned into a political system
- Hinduism is very interesting and in my opinion has done the most to explain origin, spirits, afterlife and the existence of a higher power.
- Budhism is all about self (have to confess I have not given it enough time)
Reading this convinced me that religion exists to explain death and afterlife. I am very sure people are suspicious of each other.  . Its comforting and at the same time worrtying that i am not alone in this. I will study Hinduism (of course for sport), Islam no. My wife would bring the whole church for prayers if she was to see the Koran in our house.
I fully agree with your sentiments. That is very true...... you can study any other religion for whatever reason but not Islam ~ Radicalization tingz. I would even report you to the local chief, OCS, Family wote and your employer. Also hold a night of vigil and prayer for you. Of course conjugal rights will go until you recover your senses, siwezi na Muslim  Told you they are dangerous, these followers of Christ.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/27/2016 Posts: 274 Location: Pub
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I now understand why my dad used to force me to go to church and he never went to church, he even gave us offering. One day i asked him Dad why don't you go to church? He told me i hate "hypocrates". For me i go to church because of peace of mind, the hope i get, and the belief of a supreme being..that nomatter what i have something to believe in. Either way its all Vanity. However, i have really struggled with the mutara tara churches... zile za mamazetu. Damn, i always sleep and wonder what the hell i am doing in church. So i switched to an interesting one that can accommodate me eve if i oversleep on Saturday night.Some sundays i just stream it from my bed. And on a lighter note the only think i dont do is give offering.... i used to give offering until one day the Church bought the Senior Pastor & his assistant a white Prado. siku izi iyo kitambaa ya sadaka hunipita Vwaaaaaa.. I work so I can afford the amount of alcohol required to continue going to work
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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radio wrote:@ngogoyo, how long have you had this struggle? Do you think it is a phase of life you can overcome over time?
Anyone who has been down this road of unbelief and changed later? Not going to church isn't 'unbelief'. I stopped going to church in my teens and faced a lot of doubt. Even now I wrestle with supreme being. But the doubt seems to be diminishing. 'God' is a bit cliché and anyway he died with Nietzsche, but supreme being still remains. It's like a revolution, We've gone back to the unnameable. Anyway, there are laws of tradition. These are the guides one can use. The challenge is to find them for yourself or something. If you're earnest in your doubt and you investigate these matters you'll be safe.Or rather, then you have nothing to lose. But there's also technique. How you can find the proper technique is another matter all together. But there's a holy spirit. It doesn't fail. How I can describe some things to you in a fresh language is something quite difficult at the moment. Hmm... trying times indeed.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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Ngogoyo wrote:My dilemma,
I can’t seem to get motivated to attend church nor listen to prayers or read bible.
Am a catholic by upbringing but I can’t ever recall even one time when I ever enjoyed being in the church or serving in the church. My parents brought me very well in the church and I have an obligation to do the same for my son and wife.
I was an altar boy way back and in high school I was an official in the CA but after high school I couldn’t stomach being hypocritical and just doing something to make others happy.
I stopped going to church and I only do if there is a burial or wedding and even in these times, I detest the readings and preaching so I look for all ways to escape them. I hate the hypocritical long prayers.
Am not like @Humbugler but I agree with most of his points on dislike for religion
My wife has a different sect by upbringing so I just allowed her to continue but I got to start going to church (catholic) and take her and son with me. How can I motivate myself?
I do appreciate the role of religion in bringing cohesion in the society, comforting people and giving a purpose to life but that’s where it ends for me. I have a problem believing in much of the principles like Jesus, Jews, Israel, contentious stories, the bible etc.
I do believe there is a higher power and for sure I came from somewhere!
There is a real problem in the current church set up and its money minded policies which they always try to mask. Elders/officials being holier than thou on Sunday but source of their wealth is evil, immoral etc.
I can’t understand with all these churches and mosques, where is there so much corruption, killing, theft etc in the society. I can’t manage to reconcile all that.
Ooh and they tell me judge not!!!
@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?
Let's get this right first and foremost, did anyone touch you inappropriately during your time as an altar boy? There seem to be underlying issue here and I want to make sure we're treating the right ailment. Thanks you Legendary Rollout 10k Drunkard
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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You are dangerously close to liberation the moment you start questioning religion and gods.
I have never had any doubts about my atheism. Not even for one minute.
You guys all have doubts about religion and that right there speaks volumes. Something is definitely amiss somewhere.
I honestly feel sorry for religious people, they are depriving themselves of a lot of happiness with all that nonsense.
I have never been so sure of anything in my life like how sure I am about atheism. I am more sure of this than I am of tycho being clinically insane. And we all know that Tycho is a certified nutjob.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Spirituality via religions has failed. It was never meant to be brokered by any class of individuals to the rest of society. 'God' and the spiritual realm is knowable by direct experience.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2011 Posts: 181 Location: Nairobi
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We have moved from the age where information used to be the purview of a few (e.g. clergy) to an era where information is readily available to anyone that seeks it. Religion is not exempt. Bible is totally online (including all versions). You can easily compare the gospels (vertically) and see the contradictions (e.g. differences in resurrection stories of Mark & Matthew) & forgeries (e.g. Mark 16: 9 - 20) and so on. I can go on. I have been a mellow catholic for the longest time, believing and unquestioning the dogma; attending mass as often as I could. Children have been through faith formation process (now I call it indoctrination), but even they have had questions when they grew older. Myself, I’ve always had some doubt in some of the claims (e.g. faith is all you need, the trinity, etc), but I tagged along just because everyone else did. Within the past few months, I have had a change of heart. Discouraged by many issues like child molestation in the RCC, politics of deceit, why, with all our God fearing nature, hunger and wars still persist; hatred prevails and even thrives among many bible thumping folks; the poor remain poor even though they are likely to be most fervent believers, racism remains prevalent, slavery happened, inquisitions happened - clearly the notion of just having faith and waiting for a supernatural being to sort things out has not worked and is not working. That is where I am at. This has led me on a quest to find out what really happened somewhere between 4 BC and 500 AD, perhaps even earlier and perhaps later and I am looking at all the historical evidence I can find. It does not look pretty! Once I review various books I am reading I will tell more. First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Ngogoyo wrote:
@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?
Ngai!! I think religion is an important cultural construct in our society. Whether we like that or not - it's there! When at home I pray with my kids, I take them to church and go to church as well, I find myself in 'groups' of sorts. I accepted it as such - an important part of our living as africans. I live with people who I really love and that believe intensely. Again, let's face it... it's not all bad - right? These days I operate on a supermarket model... I pick what I want and leave the nasty stuff behind! I don't part with cash to the levels they want... 10%... please!! But I know they need to operate... so i give offering. I think it's the new reality right? We need to find out just how to live in this new reality! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Apricot wrote:We have moved from the age where information used to be the purview of a few (e.g. clergy) to an era where information is readily available to anyone that seeks it. Religion is not exempt. Bible is totally online (including all versions). You can easily compare the gospels (vertically) and see the contradictions (e.g. differences in resurrection stories of Mark & Matthew) & forgeries (e.g. Mark 16: 9 - 20) and so on. I can go on.
I have been a mellow catholic for the longest time, believing and unquestioning the dogma; attending mass as often as I could. Children have been through faith formation process (now I call it indoctrination), but even they have had questions when they grew older. Myself, I’ve always had some doubt in some of the claims (e.g. faith is all you need, the trinity, etc), but I tagged along just because everyone else did.
Within the past few months, I have had a change of heart. Discouraged by many issues like child molestation in the RCC, politics of deceit, why, with all our God fearing nature, hunger and wars still persist; hatred prevails and even thrives among many bible thumping folks; the poor remain poor even though they are likely to be most fervent believers, racism remains prevalent, slavery happened, inquisitions happened - clearly the notion of just having faith and waiting for a supernatural being to sort things out has not worked and is not working.
That is where I am at. This has led me on a quest to find out what really happened somewhere between 4 BC and 500 AD, perhaps even earlier and perhaps later and I am looking at all the historical evidence I can find. It does not look pretty! Once I review various books I am reading I will tell more.
I can tell you what you will find at the end of that route... it's basically - THIS IS THE STORY WE WOULD LIKE TOLD AND WE ARE STICKING TO IT! but you will need to move past that! past all the injustices and people being willing to do things in the name of God and country they are unwilling to do in their names and get to now... the reality now! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
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@Ngogoyo as you can see, we are many non-believers around. I hope you can derive that sense of community from this thread . From my experience, if you're in the process of letting go of religion, you must be in a good place in your life, for religion tends to attract the downtrodden. The badness is, if you 'come out' as an atheist in Kenya, my friend it's worse than telling people you're gay. Some people will really wonder how they can trust a godless person. The best thing is to just kanyagia religious stories when around peers and loved ones. It's really easy to just sidestep the issue, especially if you don't live amongst fundamentalists. Trust me, most 'religious' people are only passively religious, they don't really care for following their religions rules word for word. Majority have never even read their holy book from cover to cover. I know I used to be that way back in the day.
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