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Dropping Swahili as a Subject in Schools.
Rahatupu
#21 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 3:10:21 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
Does anyone here believe that Kiswahili would die off from our streets, markets, bars and other public fora, if universally we taught it only up to class three!

And for heavens sake nobody has called for banishing of Kiswahili from our public square.

This is a call to unburden our kids in school with a subject that isn’t taking them nor the country anywhere – noting that whatever benefits we draw from Swahili language would not be any lesser if we didn’t teach it in school up to KCSE.


While at it, lets also unburden them by teaching maths to class 3 or 6 or upto where calculus checks in. How in the world does calculus help anyone other than it making maths difficult and ridiculous. (many people could argue for this, yet I am sure there's a good reason why its taught)


Word.
Rahatupu
#22 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 3:12:10 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Where is this destination that our children should be "taken" by subjects learned in school?
masukuma
#23 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 4:14:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Ngalaka wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I personally at this stage am very grateful that I did kiswahili! I love it! I didn't do well in school at it but I love it! it's such a dear language to me that when I travel and meet others and we start chatting in exclussive swa... it makes me high! exclusive swa! using words kama mjini, nyumbani... dropping misemo here and there... just lovely! I was on an interview juzi where I used words like "MFUMO MBADALA! sheria na Kanuni, michakato na taratibu..." I loved it!!

Most of us, and I guess that includes you, are also very proficient in our vernacular languages even though we didn't take them in school.
Heck our politicians are at their best when they switch to vernacular - the figures of speech, the connection....

Even watu wa mambasani who never went to school speak more appealing swahili to yours - while you probably got an "A" in the language.

The point is a language is not necessarily embraced because it is taught in school, - at what expense.

nope...i did not learn how to speak my language. you guys should really know how lucky you are to have a unifying language that is not a foreign language... MKO NA BAHATI!! TUACHE UJINGA!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Alba
#24 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 4:17:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Ngalakaa ngai. Ngalaka ngai likambo nasali yo nayebi tina te

You sound like someone who struggled mightily with Kiswahili in secondary school and it still gives you nightmares Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Kiswahili is a treasure. It did wonders in uniting the Tanzanian people. In fact not only should it be promoted in Kenya, it should be aggressively promoted abroad. And it starts by having people who can speak eloquently.

There are two Kiswahili dialect spoken in Somalia (Bajun and Bravanese), another one in Congo(Kingwana) and even as far south as Mozambique and Northern Zambia. This needs to be promoted and encouraged further through cultural exchanges, radio, TV, music etc.

In other words we need more people publicly speaking or singing fluently or eloquently.

If not for music, Kiswahili would be more widely spoken than Lingala in the Congo. Lingala became more popular because it was the language of music.
masukuma
#25 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 4:22:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
I also think the only thing that keeps swahili fairly uniform is the fact that we learn it in school! we ruin it on our own ways when we get out of school but we all have a uniform starting place. That is why we even know how to read it! because it was taught to us in structured manner. when you don't learn how to write it and pronounce it the way you hear it - the language morphs very fast and soon
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#26 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 4:27:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Ngalaka wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
@Tycho thanks. @Ngalaka have you ever been abroad in non English speaking country? You try communicate in English and they ask you to speak your own language? Been in such scenario in Germany, Italy and Russia. Where is your pride?

Secondly, pride boss.....in our "Africaness" if not anything else. Why not make it the language of instruction for all subjects?

Now I know what Ngugi meant by urging in Decolonizing the Mind by reloading at our African languages. Kiswahili (not Swahili) is at the par with the so called international languages.

We have our "own" languages bwana - 42 of them. We speak them better than any other language we learnt in school - be it English or Swahili.

Tanzania has taken the route you suggest for us. where has it left them and their education system.
The number of Kenyan expatriates there tells it all.

speak for yourself... this is such an assumption that is negated by most of my agemates.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#27 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 4:37:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
masukuma wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I personally at this stage am very grateful that I did kiswahili! I love it! I didn't do well in school at it but I love it! it's such a dear language to me that when I travel and meet others and we start chatting in exclussive swa... it makes me high! exclusive swa! using words kama mjini, nyumbani... dropping misemo here and there... just lovely! I was on an interview juzi where I used words like "MFUMO MBADALA! sheria na Kanuni, michakato na taratibu..." I loved it!!

Most of us, and I guess that includes you, are also very proficient in our vernacular languages even though we didn't take them in school.
Heck our politicians are at their best when they switch to vernacular - the figures of speech, the connection....

Even watu wa mambasani who never went to school speak more appealing swahili to yours - while you probably got an "A" in the language.

The point is a language is not necessarily embraced because it is taught in school, - at what expense.

nope...i did not learn how to speak my language. you guys should really know how lucky you are to have a unifying language that is not a foreign language... MKO NA BAHATI!! TUACHE UJINGA!

Nigerians, Zambians, South Africans use English as their national language, isn't it

But it's better when you have a language that is easier to learn(esp for Bantussmile ) and is ours

I think Rwanda wants to start teaching Kiswahili. Why should we be dropping it?

Kiswahili kitukuzwe!!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Ngalaka
#28 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 4:52:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Alba wrote:
Ngalakaa ngai. Ngalaka ngai likambo nasali yo nayebi tina te

You sound like someone who struggled mightily with Kiswahili in secondary school and it still gives you nightmares Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Kiswahili is a treasure. It did wonders in uniting the Tanzanian people. In fact not only should it be promoted in Kenya, it should be aggressively promoted abroad. And it starts by having people who can speak eloquently.

There are two Kiswahili dialect spoken in Somalia (Bajun and Bravanese), another one in Congo(Kingwana) and even as far south as Mozambique and Northern Zambia. This needs to be promoted and encouraged further through cultural exchanges, radio, TV, music etc.

In other words we need more people publicly speaking or singing fluently or eloquently.

If not for music, Kiswahili would be more widely spoken than Lingala in the Congo. Lingala became more popular because it was the language of music.

Ngalakaa ngai. Ngalaka ngai likambo nasali yo nayebi tina te
And no, its not about yours truly, its all about our education choices as a country.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Ngalaka
#29 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 5:04:20 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
masukuma wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
@Tycho thanks. @Ngalaka have you ever been abroad in non English speaking country? You try communicate in English and they ask you to speak your own language? Been in such scenario in Germany, Italy and Russia. Where is your pride?

Secondly, pride boss.....in our "Africaness" if not anything else. Why not make it the language of instruction for all subjects?

Now I know what Ngugi meant by urging in Decolonizing the Mind by reloading at our African languages. Kiswahili (not Swahili) is at the par with the so called international languages.

We have our "own" languages bwana - 42 of them. We speak them better than any other language we learnt in school - be it English or Swahili.

Tanzania has taken the route you suggest for us. where has it left them and their education system.
The number of Kenyan expatriates there tells it all.

speak for yourself... this is such an assumption that is negated by most of my agemates.

Would you say in all honesty that, that statement is not a true reflection of an average Kenyan - not some exceptionals who are few and far between.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Ngalaka
#30 Posted : Monday, March 06, 2017 5:21:57 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Well identity – I have no issue with that, but how does that go away if we don’t teach it in school beyond class three.

Lets also examine the correlation between the Swahili we learn in School and the Swahili we speak in our common day to day life.

For illustration, think of a guy in Nakuru, Eldoret, Kitale, Voi, Malindi, Kericho or a guy you know personally that dropped in class five – is his Swahili any different from that of an average Kenyan around him - read you the schooled.
We can milk the sentimentality about identity as much as we wish, but reality on the ground is - for an average Kenyan graduate or form four leaver, their Swahili as used in day to day life is horrible at best, whereas their Kamba, bukusu Kikuyu, dholuo, Kimasai etc is flawless.

I bet we have all listened to our elite being interviewed life on radio or Television in Kiswahili - especially BBC – it comes off like torture to them – as a matter of fact a good part of their speech constitutes of English because of want of their Swahili.

It makes sense to unclog our education system of subjects that we really don’t need in the system – for it doesn’t serve us any less well even from outside of the system.

And lets be practical good people of Kenya, one can not in good conscience draw parallels between critical and integral linchpin of academics such as Maths and a contraption of a language that came into being not too long ago and is regarded as a second language by the vast majority of those who speak it.

The truth is, policy on which subject are to grace our schools is drawn by adults in Nairobi.

In my intro I suggested that those keen to pursue the subject have that opportunity open to them, but of course with counsel and guidance as to where they should expect to go with their fancy.

I agree sentimentality/pride is indeed a value, but how far are we willing to go with it vis a vis practicality and demands of todays trends in life.

As a third world economy what priorities do we wish to take!

Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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