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Centum HY17
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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You have to understand that Centum owns what 20% odd on TRDL.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,107 Location: Nairobi
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snipermnoma wrote:Ericsson wrote:Two Rivers seeks Sh2bn to fund real estate plansTwo Rivers Development Limited (TRDL), a company partly owned by investment firm Centum is seeking to raise Sh2 billion through short-term debt to fund its real estate projects. TRDL, whose other shareholders are Aviation Industry Corp of China (Avic), and the Industrial and Commercial Development Corporation, is issuing a one-year note with an interest rate offer of 14.5 per cent. Centum Investments, which owns 58 per cent of TRDL, will guarantee the note Madeni will finish Centum http://www.businessdaily...6510-hj9andz/index.html
If it is a 1 year note why not just get it from a bank e.g. Sidian at the max rate of 14%? Insider lending of this magnitude would attract the attention of CBK... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/14/2014 Posts: 288 Location: nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:These plots sales are expected to finance the retirement of the one-year note as well as contribute to the over Sh1 billion projected profit after tax,” TRDL says in the private offer’s prospectus.  so they are already PLANNING to make a profit of over 1billion.Isorait They borrow now and promise to pay when they sell at these prices.isorait. This is beyond me I find satisfaction in owning great business,not trading them
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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dsktop wrote:Centum is a very nice house, palace even, Taj Mahal-esque....but built on sand! This thing has all the characteristics of another TSS, however at a grand scale of things. However, some may say, as long as the pony hocks we ride. But at the end we will be here to see who was riding naked. I hate a one man shops show, it oftenly, once the dust settles is crowned with a tomb and a R.I.P cross on top. Na utando? So many examples abound. Imperial, chase though never climaxed etc etc. This one is yet to make some noise to fit into the donkey family but the hooves, skin colour, tolerance to doing hardwork, snout, peeing and shafting style fits the script 100%/100%.   ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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Ericsson wrote:Chaka wrote:Did Centum shareholders approve this deal? [quote=Ericsson] SA's Distell acquires controlling stake at KwalThe South African owner of Amarula and Viceroy brands is now majority owner of the Kenya Wine Agencies Ltd (Kwal) after buying out investment firm Centum in a deal estimated at Sh1 billion. Distell on Tuesday announced it has acquired Centum’s entire 26.43 per cent stake in Kwal, bringing its ownership in the wine maker and alcoholic beverages marketer to 52.43 per cent. http://www.businessdaily...430-10out0rz/index.html[/quote] DJ=Centum and Centum=DJ Centum shareholders are just spectators. Hakuna democracy huko Imperial kam chase kam TSS deja vu, special purpose vehicles already in place. Could be spined off merali style and then u see how your house of cards comes crumbling down on you. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/14/2014 Posts: 288 Location: nairobi
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i dont admire this idea of companies planning to sell this and that in order to make a profit of x billions. This seems more of a publicity stunt and a short term vision too If the company is in the business of buying and selling plots then this would be acceptable. I find satisfaction in owning great business,not trading them
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:snipermnoma wrote:Ericsson wrote:Two Rivers seeks Sh2bn to fund real estate plansTwo Rivers Development Limited (TRDL), a company partly owned by investment firm Centum is seeking to raise Sh2 billion through short-term debt to fund its real estate projects. TRDL, whose other shareholders are Aviation Industry Corp of China (Avic), and the Industrial and Commercial Development Corporation, is issuing a one-year note with an interest rate offer of 14.5 per cent. Centum Investments, which owns 58 per cent of TRDL, will guarantee the note Madeni will finish Centum http://www.businessdaily...6510-hj9andz/index.html
If it is a 1 year note why not just get it from a bank e.g. Sidian at the max rate of 14%? Insider lending of this magnitude would attract the attention of CBK... What if they borrowed from another bank?If the company is that stable the rates would definetly be lower than this one year note...If the likes of KQ can get a facility @ 7-8% they should surely enjoy the same...or even 10% thats a whole 450bps. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2016 Posts: 225
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muandiwambeu wrote:Ericsson wrote:Chaka wrote:Did Centum shareholders approve this deal? [quote=Ericsson] SA's Distell acquires controlling stake at KwalThe South African owner of Amarula and Viceroy brands is now majority owner of the Kenya Wine Agencies Ltd (Kwal) after buying out investment firm Centum in a deal estimated at Sh1 billion. Distell on Tuesday announced it has acquired Centum’s entire 26.43 per cent stake in Kwal, bringing its ownership in the wine maker and alcoholic beverages marketer to 52.43 per cent. http://www.businessdaily...430-10out0rz/index.html[/quote] DJ=Centum and Centum=DJ Centum shareholders are just spectators. Hakuna democracy huko Imperial kam chase kam TSS deja vu, special purpose vehicles already in place. Could be spined off merali style and then u see how your house of cards comes crumbling down on you. Bandia ventures. Even the link above has been pulled down. I am getting 404 error. Reflection Eternal
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2007 Posts: 53
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target1360 wrote:i dont admire this idea of companies planning to sell this and that in order to make a profit of x billions.
This seems more of a publicity stunt and a short term vision too
If the company is in the business of buying and selling plots then this would be acceptable. Everything about centum is a stunt... From paying USD 160000 p/m to someone to the employee bonus scheme to two rivers.... They thrive on the grandiose a PR Co. A casual shareholder(in .ke) doesn't care where the profit comes from.It doesn't matter paper profits... Cashflow ni wewe... Profit profit profit
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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target1360 wrote:i dont admire this idea of companies planning to sell this and that in order to make a profit of x billions.
This seems more of a publicity stunt and a short term vision too
If the company is in the business of buying and selling plots then this would be acceptable. The business model isn't that bad. Buy acres of land, develop part of it, then sell off part of the land at a premium. Realistically, i doubt if they would be able to develop the whole parcel. It makes sense to sell it and use the cash to offset debts. It is an investment company. It has to know when to divest. However, if they sell the land and the value is not felt in terms of dividends, i'd consider that sacrilegious.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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MadDoc wrote:target1360 wrote:i dont admire this idea of companies planning to sell this and that in order to make a profit of x billions.
This seems more of a publicity stunt and a short term vision too
If the company is in the business of buying and selling plots then this would be acceptable. The business model isn't that bad. Buy acres of land, develop part of it, then sell off part of the land at a premium. Realistically, i doubt if they would be able to develop the whole parcel. It makes sense to sell it and use the cash to offset debts. It is an investment company. It has to know when to divest. However, if they sell the land and the value is not felt in terms of dividends, i'd consider that sacrilegious. Doubt it will be felt.... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:MadDoc wrote:target1360 wrote:i dont admire this idea of companies planning to sell this and that in order to make a profit of x billions.
This seems more of a publicity stunt and a short term vision too
If the company is in the business of buying and selling plots then this would be acceptable. The business model isn't that bad. Buy acres of land, develop part of it, then sell off part of the land at a premium. Realistically, i doubt if they would be able to develop the whole parcel. It makes sense to sell it and use the cash to offset debts. It is an investment company. It has to know when to divest. However, if they sell the land and the value is not felt in terms of dividends, i'd consider that sacrilegious. Doubt it will be felt.... Poor timing for selling maproti Doubt it will yield the desired outcome....not in the short term atleast. Again, TRDL is only 20% something owned by Centum, the company TRDL itself is in realestate. So perhaps, u guys need to delink centum from the business.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 884
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MadDoc wrote:target1360 wrote:i dont admire this idea of companies planning to sell this and that in order to make a profit of x billions.
This seems more of a publicity stunt and a short term vision too
If the company is in the business of buying and selling plots then this would be acceptable. The business model isn't that bad. Buy acres of land, develop part of it, then sell off part of the land at a premium. Realistically, i doubt if they would be able to develop the whole parcel. It makes sense to sell it and use the cash to offset debts. It is an investment company. It has to know when to divest. However, if they sell the land and the value is not felt in terms of dividends, i'd consider that sacrilegious. Thats exactly where the problem is. Sell land at a premium and award themselves bonuses with shareholders getting nothing. Expect 1.5b in bonuses this time “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,699 Location: NAIROBI
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The way two Rivers project was undertaken was fishy. They should have started with houses i.e high end houses sitting on half an acre,build about 100 in the first 60 acres then sell. There they could have made a profit of more than a bn and debt they would have incurred would have been less. The mall should have been the last like the way other developers have done it e.g Greenspan,HFCK Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,297
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,520 Location: nairobi
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@realtreaty I love your patience. I personally would not have the energy to reply to such a misguided view as held by @ericsson
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,699 Location: NAIROBI
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The option of mall first only works if you are a cash rich investor like Actis who built Garden city and the owner of the hub in Karen. The days of over inflating the price of a house just because you built a mall are long gone. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,107 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:snipermnoma wrote:Ericsson wrote:Two Rivers seeks Sh2bn to fund real estate plansTwo Rivers Development Limited (TRDL), a company partly owned by investment firm Centum is seeking to raise Sh2 billion through short-term debt to fund its real estate projects. TRDL, whose other shareholders are Aviation Industry Corp of China (Avic), and the Industrial and Commercial Development Corporation, is issuing a one-year note with an interest rate offer of 14.5 per cent. Centum Investments, which owns 58 per cent of TRDL, will guarantee the note Madeni will finish Centum http://www.businessdaily...6510-hj9andz/index.html
If it is a 1 year note why not just get it from a bank e.g. Sidian at the max rate of 14%? Insider lending of this magnitude would attract the attention of CBK... What if they borrowed from another bank?If the company is that stable the rates would definetly be lower than this one year note...If the likes of KQ can get a facility @ 7-8% they should surely enjoy the same...or even 10% thats a whole 450bps. Please let us who is lending to KQ at 8%. Thank you. [In KES, not subsidized by GoK, a loan made today not negotiated when KQ was much healthier] I shall await your answer. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,107 Location: Nairobi
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Ericsson wrote:The way two Rivers project was undertaken was fishy.
They should have started with houses i.e high end houses sitting on half an acre,build about 100 in the first 60 acres then sell.
There they could have made a profit of more than a bn and debt they would have incurred would have been less.
The mall should have been the last like the way other developers have done it e.g Greenspan,HFCK How is HFCK doing? Do we have the financials for Greenspan? I think building the mall & selling a huge part of it at a "high" valuation to Old Mutual was very smart. I hope they sell off the rest of the (shares) mall! The "parent" is now selling off "expensive" plots to various developers and this was possible because the Mall allowed TRDL to invest in infrastructure to make the entire 102 acres attractive. The security, roads, etc will make high-prices residential development attractive for many "foreign" [Green Zone e.g. UN, US, etc] staff. I believe cash is king but as a Warren Buffett fan, I don't mind (cash) profits that come in chunks and not monthly as long as Centum can manage its cashflows. BTW, I don't hold many Centum coz I feel I have better (potential) returns in other firms. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,699 Location: NAIROBI
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VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:The way two Rivers project was undertaken was fishy.
They should have started with houses i.e high end houses sitting on half an acre,build about 100 in the first 60 acres then sell.
There they could have made a profit of more than a bn and debt they would have incurred would have been less.
The mall should have been the last like the way other developers have done it e.g Greenspan,HFCK How is HFCK doing? Do we have the financials for Greenspan? I think building the mall & selling a huge part of it at a "high" valuation to Old Mutual was very smart. I hope they sell off the rest of the (shares) mall! The "parent" is now selling off "expensive" plots to various developers and this was possible because the Mall allowed TRDL to invest in infrastructure to make the entire 102 acres attractive. The security, roads, etc will make high-prices residential development attractive for many "foreign" [Green Zone e.g. UN, US, etc] staff. I believe cash is king but as a Warren Buffett fan, I don't mind (cash) profits that come in chunks and not monthly as long as Centum can manage its cashflows. BTW, I don't hold many Centum coz I feel I have better (potential) returns in other firms. @VVS HFCK did the houses then the mall last.The demand for shops at the mall will be build by the residents first not outsiders as most of them as it is becoming are idlers on the shopping mall. The financials for Greenspan you can get from Stanlib I Fahari REIT annual report As for the sale to Old Mutual of the mall;info I have is that this time Old Mutual squeezed centum thoroughly on the balls.They learnt from the UAP stake sale. The foreigner staff you are talking about prefer Runda,Kiambu road and Gigiri compared to Two Rivers. Problem with Two Rivers is the overlooking slum called Ruaka which they fear. The Embassies if they want a place they will book in advance and give you the necessary deposit/finance to start construction. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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