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Resurrection day
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:Once again the questions I've prompted @Alph to reconsider arise... My definition of death is the disengagement of the soul from the body. The first outward sign is stop of breathing. But not breathing alone doesn't mean death. As for the day when the body and soul are reunited again, I refer to this as resurrection. Human beings (scientists) are not the owners of the law of life. Yes, they can create the environment that either sustains life or that destroys life. No scientists is able to resurrect. And they will not be able. Ever. Maybe at this moment I should ask, does the 'soul' join the body before birth? When exactly does it do so? If the soul joins the body under special conditions in the womb, why would you suppose that an artificial womb can't be used? Such a mechanism would undoubtedly make the work the task of resurrecting probably easier! The soul joins the body before birth. If the soul is not there, then that body will just be an extension of the womb... it won't exist on its own. If you cut of the womb, then it dies immediately just like amputating a limb. And yes, you can use artificial womb. That is just creating a conducive environment for life to grow. But that would be hosting an already existing life. But resurrecting, collecting all those carbon components of my grand father, put them together and put a soul in there, that one is not for "man" to do! There's a question you've not answered @Alph; if the soul joins the body before birth, when exactly does it join it?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I can tell you, it'll not happen. Bringing life is not in the hands of man. Take that to the bank. And that "miracle" was time bound, no more. @Alph, notice that you've made a proposition without backing it up with reasons. On the other hand, genetics, and genetic engineering and a host of other technologies make it at least hypothetically possible for example to re-create even animals long extinct. Besides, the questions of what life is, and what humanity is have never been really settled. Take this opportunity to reconsider them. It depends what you mean by resurrection. From the death? And as for re-creating, the scientists are not creating anything new. They are just aiding the natural phenomena of a cell meeting another cell to make life. Can those scientists create cells from scratch? http://www.telegraph.co....-about-playing-god.html
The point is, he cannot rebuilt my grand-father's 20,000 human genome genes and three billion base pairs. What he can do is a photocopy of my grand-father, which will be a new person all together called "clone". The only difference between my grandfather and a cloned him is in the genes. He had 23 chromosomes from the mother and 23 chromosomes from the father or 23 pairs in every cell of the body (of course except the germ cells or gametes i.e. sperm or ova). The clone copy of him will have 23 pairs of chromosomes of my grandfather. Two points: 1. If the difference between the clone and your grandfather is genetic, does it imply that (a) the clone has a soul? or (b) the clone has no soul because of a genetic deficiency? 2. Why do you suppose the clone will have a genetic difference relative your grandfather?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@All: does it make a difference that humans have the consciousness or intuition that there's an afterlife and chicken probably don't? What difference?
Consider, that most if not all animals can count, though only humans have mathematics... or so I presume.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:Not to downplay the Islamic view, but surely the brains of animals like chicken have been studied sufficiently to conclude that chickens are not interested in heaven, various parts of the brain that have functions such as motor, reflex, cerebellum e.t.c show that animals do not have “sapience” and the correlating brain activity, in the sections of the brain where it happens for humans. Do not mistake the “begwoook” of a chicken for thinking, even a machine can be made to respond in the same way after a beating, all about messages fired to various muscles from various parts of brain e.t.c, in other words in tychos “simulation”, we can conclude chicken are just like machines in the “video game”, for the use of the character “man”, for entertainment and eating, kuku fry,  today we can make much more intelligent machines than chicken, and some that do things better than man, and they don’t care about ‘heaven’ for sure, and never will, they are ATHIEST like the chicken, dogs, pigs etc, i dont think tychos "scientist" will resurrect chicken either, he can tell us. The dullest human being will give a varied communication response for many types of prompts, he will ask for food water e.t.c no animal, notwithstanding the “hundreds of millions of years” it has preexisted man can do that, speak like we do! Even with hearing and sight, the animals cannot outdo a person born deaf, blind and dumb who will find a way to communicate using signs with “people” whom they live with but have never seen or heard; you cannot say therefore it is for lack of “vocal cords” that animals don’t communicate, one or the other would "learn" to use signs to communicate. And as people have a tendency to be unequal say in “intelligence”, music, muscle, the same is seen in animals, among horses there are better runners, more “tamable” horses among horses, elephants e.t.c , sending messages from the animal to the human often appears simpler than all the ‘taming’, as for example how sure we are for instance we can communicate with aliens (from astrobiologist view and even nasa has sent communication to aliens) even without meeting them, you cannot make any animal tame to speak like the “stupidest child” What is more interesting is that the humans brain does not only respond to the “physical” or instinctual world, but very heavily to things like emotions, ideas, notions, thoughts which are the driving force, good and bad, evil and good, there is no “evil” or “good” in the jungle, i think this leaves man in a SINGULAR position, with regards to this notion of heaven, no need bringing chicken, goats e.t.c to it. I agree - the human brain is possibly the 1st organ that has developed enough to ask questions and have notions of good and evil. it could be be the only thing (jn the universe) as far as we know that can deduce the notion of heaven and hell. but perhaps that then creates a second set of questions: Does the formulation of the notion of heaven imply that such a place exists? and congruently just because a creature are not interested or is incapable of formulation such a place does it then not mean it does not exist? If its a notion, i cant speak for animals, again why do they need a notion they don't understand? it MUST be preceded by a singular lucid view between good and evil. It's not a deduction, but a choice! Of all the theories i have heard bandied around, the most consistent and long standing theory i have heard is that one chooses. Defining good and evil maybe then your challenge and not "incapable of formulation" of good and evil, that already sounds like an 'excuse' for a little evil. is the existence of an afterlife premised on consciousness of it's existence? Is love/hate e.t.c premised on the consciousness of its existence, does that apply to a psycopath, does he "know" empathy for example, ama yeye ni mnyama tu, does the psycopath not knowing empathy eliminate the conscious existence of empathy, please show me how they look or a youtube video of "life", what is consiousness? Ebu niseme sielewi hii swali kabisa but in tychos 'scientific resurrection', the technical capacity to resurrect lays the premises for resurrection, that's conscious, it presents the scenario where any previous human character can be downloaded, or re-run or reloaded into the simulation, 'Adam and Eve' can be resurrected 'scientifically' as they are "stored" in the memory and are still therefore technically alive, they were certainly candidates for resurrection when they lived, and so consciousness of how the simulation works is the premise for afterlife, automatically making resurrection a pre-existing "fact", irregardless of when it begins. In 'reality', no such "physical" device is known, but definite declarations of the same "spiritual" concepts have been made, making them (IF TRUE), 'conscious declarations' of an afterlife to those who know them as, some go as far as to say they have visited the heavenly places, unfortunately i have no youtube video to paste of this afterlife or any "proof", 'spiritual matters' are not like stones, food, and other physical things, or "subject to science" just as love cannot be measured scientifically yet is a real concept, people are free and the feel what they feel. Freedom for one to have their own spiritual beliefs is for me a very important tenant. bwana @muchknow... you should be renamed to @muchtalk! there is the thing... afterlife is a state right? we have an experience we would call 'life' and we always postulate of a state after this life called 'afterlife'. a state of 'being'. We human beings 'know' we exist or 'live' and thus we are conscious to our 'living' and we can postulate about an 'afterlife'... We also agree that a plant is not conscious to it's existence... or 'life' or not.. it 'exists' or lives in total ignorance of this state <-- tumeelewana mpaka hapo? here is the thing... just because we can postulate "it"... does "it" then exist? where "it" is "something" in the set of things that includes "afterlife". if we didnt postulate "it"... would "it" exist? is "it" a subject to our collective postulation? again.. our brain has an uncanny way of lying to us that "we" are an external form outside ourbody.it separates our conscious from itself and points at the physical object that is the brain as an organ in the same way as the heart or the leg. this "lie" has brought about all the philosophical views and discussions around duality (or triality) - we look at it (the brain) as an organ as opposed to that hallucinatory thing that is looking at all these other things coz the brain creates an out of body experience - creates consciousness as we know it... mimics what we have known as software in computers (sorry for digressing).... So my question is ... now that we know that our consciousness is a factor of the brain... is the brain the the one that has/earns an afterlife? not the leg? or heart or the appendix <-- organs that have no experience of "life" and basically "react" much in the same way as the chicken brain? could we dissect it further to a point where we can say that it's only the solid 25% of the brain that is "deserving" or is consciousness and external thing that the brain is receiving - kinda like a radio or TV and thus an immature brain such as an infants or an old brain such as a senile brain or a broken one such as one in a vegetative state cannot "receive"? would that then explain our state during sleep where we "shutdown" some aspects of the brain and thus cannot receive the "wavelength" of what is "consciousness"? sorry for my tycho like typing All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:
Human beings (scientists) are not the owners of the law of life. Yes, they can create the environment that either sustains life or that destroys life. No scientists is able to resurrect. And they will not be able. Ever.
not sure how I missed this... so do you consider viruses living creatures? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Much Know wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Much Know wrote:Not to downplay the Islamic view, but surely the brains of animals like chicken have been studied sufficiently to conclude that chickens are not interested in heaven....
OK, now that I am up off the floor. I can't say whether chicken are interested in heaven or not, I have never asked them. But let us say they are not. This would put them in good company with some humans - atheists, satanists, some scientists etc - who by their own professing,are equally not interested in heaven. What happens to the rest of your argument then? But I am a small time chicken farmer and I can confirm one thing that chickens and humans seem to share (this from close observation). Self preservation. It seems that both chicken and humans would like to stick around. Even those humans who express abiding interest in heaven are not in any hurry to get there. So, back to Masukuma's point, how different are chicken and we? I remember the story of self preservation from evolution. We shall discuss one day, quite complex an issue. Let me just assure you, the chicken don't care, they don't know you will eat them, they don't know the difference between today and tomorrow, morning and night, they are just "reacting", eat your chicken with a clean conscious  . What? Have you never gone hungry because the chicken you wanted to have for lunch refused to cooperate? They care. If they did not they would be lining their little necks for wringing every time Christmas rolls around "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:Once again the questions I've prompted @Alph to reconsider arise... My definition of death is the disengagement of the soul from the body. The first outward sign is stop of breathing. But not breathing alone doesn't mean death. As for the day when the body and soul are reunited again, I refer to this as resurrection. Human beings (scientists) are not the owners of the law of life. Yes, they can create the environment that either sustains life or that destroys life. No scientists is able to resurrect. And they will not be able. Ever. Maybe at this moment I should ask, does the 'soul' join the body before birth? When exactly does it do so? If the soul joins the body under special conditions in the womb, why would you suppose that an artificial womb can't be used? Such a mechanism would undoubtedly make the work the task of resurrecting probably easier! The soul joins the body before birth. If the soul is not there, then that body will just be an extension of the womb... it won't exist on its own. If you cut of the womb, then it dies immediately just like amputating a limb. And yes, you can use artificial womb. That is just creating a conducive environment for life to grow. But that would be hosting an already existing life. But resurrecting, collecting all those carbon components of my grand father, put them together and put a soul in there, that one is not for "man" to do! There's a question you've not answered @Alph; if the soul joins the body before birth, when exactly does it join it? The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I can tell you, it'll not happen. Bringing life is not in the hands of man. Take that to the bank. And that "miracle" was time bound, no more. @Alph, notice that you've made a proposition without backing it up with reasons. On the other hand, genetics, and genetic engineering and a host of other technologies make it at least hypothetically possible for example to re-create even animals long extinct. Besides, the questions of what life is, and what humanity is have never been really settled. Take this opportunity to reconsider them. It depends what you mean by resurrection. From the death? And as for re-creating, the scientists are not creating anything new. They are just aiding the natural phenomena of a cell meeting another cell to make life. Can those scientists create cells from scratch? http://www.telegraph.co....-about-playing-god.html
The point is, he cannot rebuilt my grand-father's 20,000 human genome genes and three billion base pairs. What he can do is a photocopy of my grand-father, which will be a new person all together called "clone". The only difference between my grandfather and a cloned him is in the genes. He had 23 chromosomes from the mother and 23 chromosomes from the father or 23 pairs in every cell of the body (of course except the germ cells or gametes i.e. sperm or ova). The clone copy of him will have 23 pairs of chromosomes of my grandfather. Two points: 1. If the difference between the clone and your grandfather is genetic, does it imply that (a) the clone has a soul? or (b) the clone has no soul because of a genetic deficiency? 2. Why do you suppose the clone will have a genetic difference relative your grandfather? 1. Clone receives a soul. 2. Clone has genes from one party, the original. On the other hand, my grandfather had half of genes from his mother and half from his father.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2014 Posts: 1,420 Location: Bohemian Grove
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masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? Im also waiting for the answer
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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whiteowl wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? Im also waiting for the answer @masukums, the foetus makes voluntary movements the moment a soul is put in it. I challenge you to carry out a test and you'll come to confirm this, if you're lucky. NOTE: BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, THIS WILL NOT BE DISPROVED. Ibn Masud narrated that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: For every one of you, the components of his creation are gathered together in the mother's womb for a period of forty days. Then he will remain for two more periods of the same length, after which the angel is sent and insufflates the spirit into him. [Hadith received by al-Bukhari and Muslim]After first 40 days: components gather together After next 40 days: components develop further After next 40 days: soul is put and becomes voluntary movts
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:whiteowl wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? Im also waiting for the answer @masukums, the foetus makes voluntary movements the moment a soul is put in it. I challenge you to carry out a test and you'll come to confirm this, if you're lucky. NOTE: BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, THIS WILL NOT BE DISPROVED. Ibn Masud narrated that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: For every one of you, the components of his creation are gathered together in the mother's womb for a period of forty days. Then he will remain for two more periods of the same length, after which the angel is sent and insufflates the spirit into him. [Hadith received by al-Bukhari and Muslim]After first 40 days: components gather together After next 40 days: components develop further After next 40 days: soul is put and becomes voluntary movts so... if movement is mark of voluntary movements - what about that of a rat? on the quotation from some random arabic speakers from 1400  All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Much Know wrote:Do not mistake the “begwoook” of a chicken for thinking, even a machine can be made to respond in the same way after a beating, all about messages fired to various muscles from various parts of brain e.t.c, in other words in tychos “simulation”, we can conclude chicken are just like machines in the “video game”, for the use of the character “man”, for entertainment and eating, kuku fry,  today we can make much more intelligent machines than chicken, and some that do things better than man, and they don’t care about ‘heaven’ for sure, and never will, they are ATHIEST like the chicken, dogs, pigs etc, i dont think tychos "scientist" will resurrect chicken either, he can tell us.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote:Much Know wrote:Do not mistake the “begwoook” of a chicken for thinking, even a machine can be made to respond in the same way after a beating, all about messages fired to various muscles from various parts of brain e.t.c, in other words in tychos “simulation”, we can conclude chicken are just like machines in the “video game”, for the use of the character “man”, for entertainment and eating, kuku fry,  today we can make much more intelligent machines than chicken, and some that do things better than man, and they don’t care about ‘heaven’ for sure, and never will, they are ATHIEST like the chicken, dogs, pigs etc, i dont think tychos "scientist" will resurrect chicken either, he can tell us. It seems that some of us don't understand what intelligence is and interestingly, may have failed to develop intelligence in themselves to the extent of projecting their ideals even to the animal world. Generally, still, if ressurection is possible in Man then it must be possible to chicken. And probably other factors other than ability may prevent such a move. Finally, if there's God, then Man can't be sure that animals have no sort of relationship with him. Just to put matters to perspective let me give some interesting links that may help some of us do some 'serious thinking'. http://www.theguardian.c.../jul/10/chickens-clever
http://freefromharm.org/...view-of-recent-science/
Maybe @Much know should remind us of any artificially intelligent 'being' that's more intelligent than a chicken.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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While we're still thinking, and I'm preparing to respond to @AlphDoti, let me allow questions like; is the idea of the soul, or resurrection, or death a zombie idea? How can one know the truth of an assertion? Or are we helpless in a world full of ideas that reasons for accepting them are simply driven by scarcity of resources and hidden agendas? https://www.theguardian....why-bad-ideas-refuse-die
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:whiteowl wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? Im also waiting for the answer @masukums, the foetus makes voluntary movements the moment a soul is put in it. I challenge you to carry out a test and you'll come to confirm this, if you're lucky. NOTE: BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, THIS WILL NOT BE DISPROVED. Ibn Masud narrated that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: For every one of you, the components of his creation are gathered together in the mother's womb for a period of forty days. Then he will remain for two more periods of the same length, after which the angel is sent and insufflates the spirit into him. [Hadith received by al-Bukhari and Muslim]After first 40 days: components gather together After next 40 days: components develop further After next 40 days: soul is put and becomes voluntary movts so... if movement is mark of voluntary movements - what about that of a rat? on the quotation from some random arabic speakers from 1400 @masukuma, yes even the rat has one. A different kind of soul from that of humans. I told you before ( i guess you didn't read the last statement in this post (Quran 81:5)) that animals, including your rat, will be alive and gathered on the Day of Judgement like humans. If they have no soul this action will be meaningless. You didn't think beyond that, right? And this is mentioned in the Quran says: And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered. [Quran 6:38]
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:whiteowl wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? Im also waiting for the answer @masukums, the foetus makes voluntary movements the moment a soul is put in it. I challenge you to carry out a test and you'll come to confirm this, if you're lucky. NOTE: BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, THIS WILL NOT BE DISPROVED. Ibn Masud narrated that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: For every one of you, the components of his creation are gathered together in the mother's womb for a period of forty days. Then he will remain for two more periods of the same length, after which the angel is sent and insufflates the spirit into him. [Hadith received by al-Bukhari and Muslim]After first 40 days: components gather together After next 40 days: components develop further After next 40 days: soul is put and becomes voluntary movts so... if movement is mark of voluntary movements - what about that of a rat? on the quotation from some random arabic speakers from 1400 @masukuma, yes even the rat has one. A different kind of soul from that of humans. I told you before ( i guess you didn't read the last statement in this post (Quran 81:5)) that animals, including your rat, will be alive and gathered on the Day of Judgement like humans. If they have no soul this action will be meaningless. You didn't think beyond that, right? And this is mentioned in the Quran says: And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered. [Quran 6:38] what about amoeba? shall it be gathered? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:While we're still thinking, and I'm preparing to respond to @AlphDoti, let me allow questions like; is the idea of the soul, or resurrection, or death a zombie idea? How can one know the truth of an assertion? tycho wrote:Finally, if there's God, then Man can't be sure that animals have no sort of relationship with him. @tycho, we are sure of everything. The idea of soul, resurrection, death is not zombie in my world. All these are sure things. No guess work at all! I told you this. Ask me anything...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:whiteowl wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? Im also waiting for the answer @masukums, the foetus makes voluntary movements the moment a soul is put in it. I challenge you to carry out a test and you'll come to confirm this, if you're lucky. NOTE: BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, THIS WILL NOT BE DISPROVED. Ibn Masud narrated that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: For every one of you, the components of his creation are gathered together in the mother's womb for a period of forty days. Then he will remain for two more periods of the same length, after which the angel is sent and insufflates the spirit into him. [Hadith received by al-Bukhari and Muslim]After first 40 days: components gather together After next 40 days: components develop further After next 40 days: soul is put and becomes voluntary movts so... if movement is mark of voluntary movements - what about that of a rat? on the quotation from some random arabic speakers from 1400 @masukuma, yes even the rat has one. A different kind of soul from that of humans. I told you before ( i guess you didn't read the last statement in this post (Quran 81:5)) that animals, including your rat, will be alive and gathered on the Day of Judgement like humans. If they have no soul this action will be meaningless. You didn't think beyond that, right? And this is mentioned in the Quran says: And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered. [Quran 6:38] what about amoeba? shall it be gathered? @masukuma, how big is our universe? Is it possible that from a far distance, is it possible that you look like a a bacteria and someone sitting 92.96 million miles away may have to look through microscopes to locate you? Do you think if that person is discovering you for the first time might think you are unintelligent being, with simple purposes of attacking vegetation and animals and drinking water and emitting industrial gases etc making the earth sick (drought, pollution etc), the same way we see bacteria attacking body cells?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:whiteowl wrote:masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote: The soul is put in the foetus 4 months after conception i.e. around 120 days.
The precision of the period of time is impressive - but it just tempts me to ask - is there a test that was conducted to come up with this assertion? why not 3months or 5 months? Im also waiting for the answer @masukums, the foetus makes voluntary movements the moment a soul is put in it. I challenge you to carry out a test and you'll come to confirm this, if you're lucky. NOTE: BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, THIS WILL NOT BE DISPROVED. Ibn Masud narrated that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: For every one of you, the components of his creation are gathered together in the mother's womb for a period of forty days. Then he will remain for two more periods of the same length, after which the angel is sent and insufflates the spirit into him. [Hadith received by al-Bukhari and Muslim]After first 40 days: components gather together After next 40 days: components develop further After next 40 days: soul is put and becomes voluntary movts so... if movement is mark of voluntary movements - what about that of a rat? on the quotation from some random arabic speakers from 1400 @masukuma, yes even the rat has one. A different kind of soul from that of humans. I told you before ( i guess you didn't read the last statement in this post (Quran 81:5)) that animals, including your rat, will be alive and gathered on the Day of Judgement like humans. If they have no soul this action will be meaningless. You didn't think beyond that, right? And this is mentioned in the Quran says: And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered. [Quran 6:38] what about amoeba? shall it be gathered? @masukuma, how big is our universe? Is it possible that from a far distance, is it possible that you look like a a bacteria and someone sitting 92.96 million miles away may have to look through microscopes to locate you? Do you think if that person is discovering you for the first time might think you are unintelligent being, with simple purposes of attacking vegetation and animals and drinking water and emitting industrial gases etc making the earth sick (drought, pollution etc), the same way we see bacteria attacking body cells? so... will Amoeba be gathered? what happens to the children who die after your BS period of time? will they be gathered? what about the crunchy chicks in balut? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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