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Kenyan Manufacturing
hardwood
#41 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:29:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
I think to stimulate local manufacturing we should start with the basics such as shoes, handkerchiefs, socks, shirts, underwear etc. Surely manufacturing these items isn't rocket science. Why export skins and hides to India and china and then import 'fake leather' shoes from them? I was shocked to find that that nearly all the shoes at Bata shops are made in India and China.

Does it mean that in year 2016, no single Kenyan can manage to manufacture a handkerchief and we have to import from china?

Even the masai shukas are all from china.Sad
Lolest!
#42 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:36:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
hardwood wrote:
I think to stimulate local manufacturing we should start with the basics such as shoes, handkerchiefs, socks, shirts, underwear etc. Surely manufacturing these items isn't rocket science. Why export skins and hides to India and china and then import 'fake leather' shoes from them? I was shocked to find that that nearly all the shoes at Bata shops are made in India and China.

Does it mean that in year 2016, no single Kenyan can manage to manufacture a handkerchief and we have to import from china?

Even the masai shukas are all from china.Sad

I buy Kenyan made vests. Sikumbuki brand name

Bata has Kenyan made shoes. I know some 2 Thika companies that make shoes for them but they're of poorer quality than those from India
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
TSi
#43 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 11:57:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/27/2015
Posts: 130
I like the anger and passion in these posts, maybe when we get enough Kenyans feeling the way you do we might wake up and start doing something about it. We could start with cottage industries like 18th century Europe; however Nema NCA Kebs Kanjo, KRA should leave these small industries alone. Wanasumbua sana. The media should charge advertising of locally made products cheaper as compared to Imported ones. One sector we are getting it right, at least, is the matatu body fabrications, why cant we apply the same for a few other sectors?
masukuma
#44 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:37:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
lets face it... we love imported things!! it's like social capital to say 'i got this from [INSERT EUROPEAN COUNTRY] we shall vent all we want but when 2 products are placed before you... you will always pick the 'imported' version. We tell ourselves that it's better quality... which it is... We tell ourselves that it's cheaper... which it is! so why would really buy these things? (not everything but most things especially electronics). I think we have had this discussion here again and again... and it has not resulted to anything - my take? Gava can lead from the front... WE HAVE DISCUSSED THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
nakujua
#45 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 1:39:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
hardwood wrote:
I think to stimulate local manufacturing we should start with the basics such as shoes, handkerchiefs, socks, shirts, underwear etc. Surely manufacturing these items isn't rocket science. Why export skins and hides to India and china and then import 'fake leather' shoes from them? I was shocked to find that that nearly all the shoes at Bata shops are made in India and China.

Does it mean that in year 2016, no single Kenyan can manage to manufacture a handkerchief and we have to import from china?

Even the masai shukas are all from china.Sad

If you look at handkerchiefs, socks and to a good extent male underwear you notice that they are very basic and so what matters most is the cost of fabric and the automation to produce in large quantities, we don't produce much fabric locally so it will always be cheaper to import such.

But if you look at shirts, dresses and other types of wear that can take in more variation then it can be cheaper or at least the same cost to do them locally, since labor takes up the lion share of the cost and for such there are several people doing the same locally.

Maasai shukas are also produced locally at ruiru, and actually I find the local brand of the same much better than the imported ones.

There exists a decent and vibrant local manufacturing sector (at least from my end when it comes to the clothing sector), but I have to admit, capital and marketing is always a challenge.
limanika
#46 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 1:53:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
What we need is govt to offer incentives..capital will then follow. Especially for apparels, we have very big market in and outside EAC - only if we can produce same quality like Asia at lower cost..I think that's what they're trying to achieve with the economic zones, but we wait to see if this noble idea will not be sabotaged by fat cats the way coffee, sugar, paper industries were killed
limanika
#47 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:06:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
mpobiz wrote:
china imetumaliza

Most manufacturers world over shifted base to China over last 20 yrs, due to cheap labor and ready markets. In the new world order, only countries who specialise to exploit local advantages will thrive. Hence America is powered by weaponry and aerospace manufacturing while letting China take care of consumer goods. Even kenya should do soul searching to see where our advantages lie and concentrate efforts there rather than being Jack of all and master of none. If it doesn't make sense to manufacture toothpicks so be it
tycho
#48 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:28:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
limanika wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
china imetumaliza

Most manufacturers world over shifted base to China over last 20 yrs, due to cheap labor and ready markets. In the new world order, only countries who specialise to exploit local advantages will thrive. Hence America is powered by weaponry and aerospace manufacturing while letting China take care of consumer goods. Even kenya should do soul searching to see where our advantages lie and concentrate efforts there rather than being Jack of all and master of none. If it doesn't make sense to manufacture toothpicks so be it


At least a reasonable post. This soul searching is called 'intelligence' something apparently few of us are willing to use.
ZZE123
#49 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:46:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/21/2008
Posts: 2,490
limanika wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
china imetumaliza

Most manufacturers world over shifted base to China over last 20 yrs, due to cheap labor and ready markets. In the new world order, only countries who specialise to exploit local advantages will thrive. Hence America is powered by weaponry and aerospace manufacturing while letting China take care of consumer goods. Even kenya should do soul searching to see where our advantages lie and concentrate efforts there rather than being Jack of all and master of none. If it doesn't make sense to manufacture toothpicks so be it

Cheaper than Kenya??? I doubt. I think the issue is the other production overheads.. infrastructure, electricity, Taxes, “Kitu Kidogo” etc..
The man who marries a beautiful woman, and the farmer who grows corn by the roadside have the same problem
digitek1
#50 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:48:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
Alba wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Some time back i was in India and was impressed that all the products they use are manufactured in India. Even vehicles. If a vehicle company wants to sell in India they have to manufacture in India in partnership with Indians. That's why they have Suzuki Maruti, Ashok Leyland etc. They dont have japanese and european mitumbas on their roads, unlike Kenya. They buy Made in India. We need to adopt such a system in Kenya.



Given our current state of political dysfunction, this protectionism likely will not work in Kenya. Our corrupt leaders will force foreign companies to partner with companies that are well connected to political bigwigs. The resulting inefficiency will cause the cost of manufactured goods to skyrocket.

Plus Kenya lacks India's capacity and customer base. I.E. Unlike India which has a billion people, Kenya's customer base is not large enough to sustain a large investment. Therefore large investments must be export oriented.

If Kenyans want to fix manufacturing issues in Kenya we just need to go back to the basics mentioned in form three geography:

1. Build better infrastructure roads, railways, pipelines etc. The poor road network in western Kenya is one of the reasons the sugar industry is moribund.
1b. Get a reliable and cheap electricity supply. (reduce blackouts)
2. Address security: Investors want to feel safe.
3. Reduce corruption: Large corporations are wary of dealing with corrupt officials.
4. Offer tax breaks to corporations that set up in remote areas with lower labour costs. Nairobi is too crowded and labor costs high. Encourage corporations to set up elsewhere.

Our political discourse should be focused on issues such as the ones above. Do people want jobs and security or do they want a member of their tribe to be in power? I always wonder about Kenyans and their priorities.

This is the 'lie' peddled by WTO IMF WB etc..no country ever developed its manufacturing industry without protectionism
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
digitek1
#51 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:54:56 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
read my footer!! it explains it all!

Ok agreed. So we are net consumers and importers..how do we change this? Find out what it is we are consuming most in value and substitute with local product. give more weight to local products in govt tenders, subsidise and protect our industries untill they can be globally competitive ...like what kenya industrial estates used to do..in otherwords.. Protectionism
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
limanika
#52 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 3:10:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
ZZE123 wrote:
limanika wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
china imetumaliza

Most manufacturers world over shifted base to China over last 20 yrs, due to cheap labor and ready markets. In the new world order, only countries who specialise to exploit local advantages will thrive. Hence America is powered by weaponry and aerospace manufacturing while letting China take care of consumer goods. Even kenya should do soul searching to see where our advantages lie and concentrate efforts there rather than being Jack of all and master of none. If it doesn't make sense to manufacture toothpicks so be it

Cheaper than Kenya??? I doubt. I think the issue is the other production overheads.. infrastructure, electricity, Taxes, “Kitu Kidogo” etc..

Where did i say cheaper labor compared to Kenya? I meant they relocated from developed countries. Just compare Chinese workers here and expatriates from the west (and even ourselves) and you get to know 1 major factor why Chinese cost of production is low
limanika
#53 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 3:16:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
digitek1 wrote:
masukuma wrote:
read my footer!! it explains it all!

Ok agreed. So we are net consumers and importers..how do we change this? Find out what it is we are consuming most in value and substitute with local product. give more weight to local products in govt tenders, subsidise and protect our industries untill they can be globally competitive ...like what kenya industrial estates used to do..in otherwords.. Protectionism

A measure of Protectionism inevitable yes but has to be done smart/ wisely otherwise you end up with trade disputes. This is what emerging and developed countries do all the time while giving us lectures about free trade
masukuma
#54 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 3:28:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
can we jump the manufacturing hoop? coz there is no sane way of competing with China... without protectionism.


Quote:

You see it in Japan. That commitment of the government of Japan to development. Even now, they are a developed country but there is tremendous commitment by the state -- don't listen to this nonsense that the state should give up the direction of the economy.

It's nonsensical. And we have so many stupid leaders who think that somehow you can hand over the development of your country to something called 'private enterprise' unregulated. That you just abandon it to them like that.

That is idiocy. Which country has ever done that? The Japanese have not done it; the British have not done it; the Germans have not done it. They meet in Halifax in June (The Industrialized countries). What for? To drink tea?

What for? The Big 7 are going to meet in Halifax. To do what? To discuss how to control the economy. It's not a meeting of bankers. It's a meeting of presidents and prime ministers on the economy.

And these ignorant people in Africa are being deceived. Don't do this -- leave it to the private sector. Where is the private sector? Where is this private sector in Tanzania to which you are going to leave the development of the country. Where is it?

It needs nursing; it needs nursing before you can have it. So you nurse it. And this is what the Asian countries have done. And you go on nursing it. The Japanese did it. Korea -- tough; tough. It's only now that they are beginning to open up their market.

How do you open up your market to big competitors when you have no power to compete with big competitors? It's ridiculous. It's like -- in the world of boxing there are heavy weights; middle weights; fly weights; feather weights. And although the rules are the same you put them separately, in separate rings.

The heavy weight in their own ring; the middle weights in their own ring. You don't put in the same ring a heavyweight and a feather weights.Never. Never. How do you do that? That is murder.

But that's what The Big 7 are telling us to do. That Germany and Burkina Faso should get in the same ring. And that is called Globalization; liberalization; freedom. This is nonsense.

This is absolute nonsense. You protect the weak until they become strong before they can compete. Always. This is the rule. This is the rule everywhere. But our leaders even when we tell them they do not argue. They don't argue. They are afraid. You can't say 'no'?

One is the weakness. Our own weaknesses -- internal weaknesses. Until we remove those weaknesses. The internal weaknesses are not the only problem. The problem is the pressure from the rich that we should open up our markets for competition.

I'm told we have opened now here banking for instance. Tanzanian banking to compete with European and North American banking? This is nonsensical.

NBC (Tanzanian bank). Is NBC free to open a branch in New York? Can NBC really open a branch in New York? So when you are saying let's be treated equally are you really saying this equality will give NBC an opportunity to open a branch in New York? This is rubbish.

Absolute rubbish. So these big banks they come to Tanzania. I'm told they are beginning to come and then they find NBC and they are now complaining. NBC is too big. We can't compete. NBC! What kind of bank is NBC. They want to buy its assets. Will our people accept this?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Swenani
#55 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 3:36:01 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Quote:
In fact, Africa has had difficulty industrializing because its leaders drank the Kool-Aid of free markets and free trade proffered by the World Bank, the IMF, and the best university economics departments over the last 30 years. Of particular harm has been the insistence that African countries forswear the use of industrial policies such as temporary trade protection, subsidized credit, preferential taxes, and publicly supported research and development. As a result, African countries have abandoned these key tools, which they could have used to build up their domestic manufacturing sectors.
Free market advocates told African countries that such “state intervention” in the economy usually does more harm than good, because governments shouldn’t be in the business of trying to “pick winners,” and that this is best left to the market. Africans were told to simply privatize, liberalize, deregulate, and get the so-called economic fundamentals right. The free market would take care of the rest.But this advice neglects the actual history of how rich countries themselves have effectively used industrial policies for 400 years, beginning with the U.K. and Europe and ending with the “four tigers” of East Asia and China. This inconvenient history contradicted free market maxims and so has been largely stripped from the economics curriculum in most universities. By now, two or three generations of students have unlearned it.


Admin,please merge these two threads
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
murchr
#56 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 3:42:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
nakujua wrote:
hardwood wrote:
I think to stimulate local manufacturing we should start with the basics such as shoes, handkerchiefs, socks, shirts, underwear etc. Surely manufacturing these items isn't rocket science. Why export skins and hides to India and china and then import 'fake leather' shoes from them? I was shocked to find that that nearly all the shoes at Bata shops are made in India and China.

Does it mean that in year 2016, no single Kenyan can manage to manufacture a handkerchief and we have to import from china?

Even the masai shukas are all from china.Sad

If you look at handkerchiefs, socks and to a good extent male underwear you notice that they are very basic and so what matters most is the cost of fabric and the automation to produce in large quantities, we don't produce much fabric locally so it will always be cheaper to import such.

But if you look at shirts, dresses and other types of wear that can take in more variation then it can be cheaper or at least the same cost to do them locally, since labor takes up the lion share of the cost and for such there are several people doing the same locally.


Maasai shukas are also produced locally at ruiru, and actually I find the local brand of the same much better than the imported ones.

There exists a decent and vibrant local manufacturing sector (at least from my end when it comes to the clothing sector), but I have to admit, capital and marketing is always a challenge.


Is the fabric making underwear(cotton) different from that making shirts? I thought what differs is the cut? Arent the Masai shukas made of cotton? Why dont we plant cotton? The cheaper variety, and keep enough worms to produce the silk we import?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#57 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:00:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
as nyerere asked!
Quote:
How do you open up your market to big competitors when you have no power to compete with big competitors? It's ridiculous. It's like -- in the world of boxing there are heavy weights; middle weights; fly weights; feather weights. And although the rules are the same you put them separately, in separate rings.

The heavy weight in their own ring; the middle weights in their own ring. You don't put in the same ring a heavyweight and a feather weights.Never. Never. How do you do that? That is murder.


Wewe jaribu kufutengeza version 0.001 ya gari yako hapa uone nani atanunua!! kwanza itakuwa expensive and then itakuwa MBAYA.. kenyans will go around saying... we cannot support 'mediocrity' coz they want to say 'we flew this in from [INSERT RANDOM EUROPEAN COUNTRY]'. The brazilian gava supported Embrer kama mbaya mbaya... mbaka it competed with Boeing... wale wasapere wanajenga jenga tu ndege twao huko central ni kupoteza wakati kama they have dreams to ever sell anything to anyone. Protect your markets cheza ngware!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
limanika
#58 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:03:12 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Why we don't plant cotton isn't the only question to be asked. Why did we kill research programs that would have come up with new high yielding varieties of cotton resistant to diseases and adaptable to semi arid climate. You have to do something differently to thrive. You need some fire in the belly
tycho
#59 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:32:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Trade is warfare by other means. It takes vision, intelligence, strategy, and concerted operations to have a say. Popular opinion and venting may appear to be useful as long as the next statement is 'government should...' but that's just pretending to be useful. The base is the economic system made up of individual entrepreneurs driving government.

When entrepreneurs drive government 'protectionism' can start making sense, do it the other way round and you'll be vanquished!
tycho
#60 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:35:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
limanika wrote:
Why we don't plant cotton isn't the only question to be asked. Why did we kill research programs that would have come up with new high yielding varieties of cotton resistant to diseases and adaptable to semi arid climate. You have to do something differently to thrive. You need some fire in the belly


A research program is only good if there are people who can take advantage of the results and maximize markets quickly.
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