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Things I used to think were true
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:Caramba wrote:Back to the title of this thread, used to think that crime does not pay.
Some dude is just about to collect 11billion from some hospital deal.
Crime does seem to pay. Just like, rarely does any good deed go unpunished. But then again, no man escapes himself. When is payment or punishment established?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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digitek1 wrote:masukuma wrote:Culture plays a huge role in making an ethnic group standout from others. Most rich Jews are irreligious they are quite atheistic in nature. Being Jewish is like being a luo or a kyuk.last time I checked...most of all those listed as Jews above are non practising and Israel is 42% irreligious ooh so rothschild is now a like a kiuk? pleez irreligious isn't the same as atheism I was saying it's ethnic... just ethnic! not that Jews are Kyuks or Kyuks are Jews or Luos are Kyuks... being Jewish just means that you are Jewish... born to jewish parents same thing as being Kyuk/Luo/Tutsi... born to Kyuk/Luo/Tutsi parents. and yes 'irreligious isn't the same as atheism' they just identify themselves on forms... ikiandikwa ... RELIGION:........... they fill 'Judaism' and pass through rites of their fathers of those (the *zvah ) - not that they believe like you do. Saying all Jews are Jewish is similar to saying all Kyuks believe in the story of Gikuyu and Mumbi simply because they were named after their parent's parents, circumsized and have a 'keja' or pay dowry or [INSERT SOME CULTURAL ASPECT HERE] All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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digitek1 wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:digitek1 wrote:Jews are disproportionately richer than any other religion and they are very religious as a simple Google search of wealth vs religion shows
capitalism also owes it's spread to the Protestant work ethic
What's the GDP per capita of Israel an almost entirely Jewish country? Not among the top 10 highest in the world. Christians like to tout Jewish exceptionalism as some kind of "god-given" trait while Muslims probably see the oil wealth of the middle east as some evidence of "super-natural" providence. Fuzzy statistics to confuse those who don't cross check stats. a resident of Israel is an Israeli. ..A follower of the Jewish faith is a jew... Doesn't Israel consider itself as the Jewish state?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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murchr wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:digitek1 wrote:Jews are disproportionately richer than any other religion and they are very religious as a simple Google search of wealth vs religion shows
capitalism also owes it's spread to the Protestant work ethic
What's the GDP per capita of Israel an almost entirely Jewish country? Not among the top 10 highest in the world. Christians like to tout Jewish exceptionalism as some kind of "god-given" trait while Muslims probably see the oil wealth of the middle east as some evidence of "super-natural" providence. Fuzzy statistics to confuse those who don't cross check stats. Per wikipedia 2013 - GDP -290.6B; PPP - $36,051.15; Size of Israel - 8,019m2 (about 2 Nyanza provinces) Population 8M Jews abroad esp those in Europe and America are real rich..To name a few, the Rothschild; Larry Elison - Oracle, Michael Bloomberg; The google boys - Larry Page and Sergey Brin, George Soros Mark Cuban etc If you want to understand this read Gldwell's "Outliers" Culture plays a very big part in shaping a people Your stats don't discount the FACT that Israel is not among top 10 richest countries in the world on a GDP per Capita basis. Indian-Americans are the richest ethnic group in America yet India which I assume to have the most Hindus in the world is a real laggard in terms of wealth. The fact of the matter is that an Indian tech entrepreneur will have more in common with a Silicon Valley entrepreneur than with a guy pushing a rickshaw in Bangalore.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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mv_ufanisi wrote:murchr wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:digitek1 wrote:Jews are disproportionately richer than any other religion and they are very religious as a simple Google search of wealth vs religion shows
capitalism also owes it's spread to the Protestant work ethic
What's the GDP per capita of Israel an almost entirely Jewish country? Not among the top 10 highest in the world. Christians like to tout Jewish exceptionalism as some kind of "god-given" trait while Muslims probably see the oil wealth of the middle east as some evidence of "super-natural" providence. Fuzzy statistics to confuse those who don't cross check stats. Per wikipedia 2013 - GDP -290.6B; PPP - $36,051.15; Size of Israel - 8,019m2 (about 2 Nyanza provinces) Population 8M Jews abroad esp those in Europe and America are real rich..To name a few, the Rothschild; Larry Elison - Oracle, Michael Bloomberg; The google boys - Larry Page and Sergey Brin, George Soros Mark Cuban etc If you want to understand this read Gldwell's "Outliers" Culture plays a very big part in shaping a people Your stats don't discount the FACT that Israel is not among top 10 richest countries in the world on a GDP per Capita basis. Indian-Americans are the richest ethnic group in America yet India which I assume to have the most Hindus in the world is a real laggard in terms of wealth. The fact of the matter is that an Indian tech entrepreneur will have more in common with a Silicon Valley entrepreneur than with a guy pushing a rickshaw in Bangalore. For a country the size of Israel #24 is not bad at all...and that is not to say that all of the people in Israel profess the are Jewish. Am now getting to understand your linear kind of thinking. Read though post #12 to atleast get a hint of the Hindu religious dynamics. If you have visited the Silicon valley and indeed all the other IT cities in America, you'll wonder IF you are in India. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. I could not fail to notice your use of the passive voice in your narrative when you breeze over humans being forced by a 'need'. What is this need to overcome the limitations of living in a 3 dimensional reality? And what gives him / it / them / whatever you define it, this unique ability to 'force' his /it's / their perspective on humans?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. That is 'belief' right there.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. I could not fail to notice your use of the passive voice in your narrative when you breeze over humans being forced by a 'need'. What is this need to overcome the limitations of living in a 3 dimensional reality? And what gives him / it / them / whatever you define it, this unique ability to 'force' his /it's / their perspective on humans? Muriel, If you and I go down this path again, I fear we may get kicked out of Wazua. We clobbered this horse to death a few times already. How about this: you prove to me that time exists (as a separate entity from human convention) and I promise to sign up as your disciple. And no don't tell me about clocks. Those are human conventions too. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy.  "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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Wakanyugi wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy. "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] to paraphrase einstein Time is relative but it does exist -since the speed of light is finite...hence the future is real, cause and effect is real I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Wakanyugi wrote:
Muriel,
If you and I go down this path again, I fear we may get kicked out of Wazua. We clobbered this horse to death a few times already.
How about this: you prove to me that time exists (as a separate entity from human convention) and I promise to sign up as your disciple.
And no don't tell me about clocks. Those are human conventions too.
Laugh Laugh Laugh Wakanyugi. So indeed you noticed something that I also noticed about your statement? There is always a gap and I always strive to stab a wedge in it. Laugh. The horse maybe cheating us that it dies. Laugh. Let me see the possibilities of opening recruitment. BRB.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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digitek1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy. "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] to paraphrase einstein Time is relative but it does exist -since the speed of light is finite...hence the future is real, cause and effect is real this would make a great excuse next time you are late for a meeting. I can't possibly be late because alas, time is an illusion!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:digitek1 wrote:masukuma wrote:Culture plays a huge role in making an ethnic group standout from others. Most rich Jews are irreligious they are quite atheistic in nature. Being Jewish is like being a luo or a kyuk.last time I checked...most of all those listed as Jews above are non practising and Israel is 42% irreligious ooh so rothschild is now a like a kiuk? pleez irreligious isn't the same as atheism I was saying it's ethnic... just ethnic! not that Jews are Kyuks or Kyuks are Jews or Luos are Kyuks... being Jewish just means that you are Jewish... born to jewish parents same thing as being Kyuk/Luo/Tutsi... born to Kyuk/Luo/Tutsi parents. and yes 'irreligious isn't the same as atheism' they just identify themselves on forms... ikiandikwa ... RELIGION:........... they fill 'Judaism' and pass through rites of their fathers of those (the *zvah ) - not that they believe like you do. Saying all Jews are Jewish is similar to saying all Kyuks believe in the story of Gikuyu and Mumbi simply because they were named after their parent's parents, circumsized and have a 'keja' or pay dowry or [INSERT SOME CULTURAL ASPECT HERE] The problem is seperating the culture from belief...google founders say they are irreligious jews while zuckerberg claims he is an atheist jew. This has caused great debate in the jewish circles as more and more american jews identify as irreligious, since jewishness is by birth. A kiuk can attend a synagogue, learn a few things and convert to being a jew..but if you are born of jewish parents you are automatically a jew. Dont underestimate the power of ritual and conditioning-What you learn as a child or the rituals you do (eg *zvah, circumcision) have a profound impact on your adult psychology whether you are aware of it or not...which explains why they dont write 'muslim'on those forms I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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digitek1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy. "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] to paraphrase einstein Time is relative but it does exist -since the speed of light is finite...hence the future is real, cause and effect is real Reality isn't existence.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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mv_ufanisi wrote:digitek1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy. "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] to paraphrase einstein Time is relative but it does exist -since the speed of light is finite...hence the future is real, cause and effect is real this would make a great excuse next time you are late for a meeting. I can't possibly be late because alas, time is an illusion! Either a dry joke or lame excuse.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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digitek1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy. "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] to paraphrase einstein Time is relative but it does exist -since the speed of light is finite...hence the future is real, cause and effect is real The implication of this statement is even more strange. To a beam of light, time does not exist.Time and the speed of light have an inverse relationship. The faster you go, the slower time flows. To anything that travels at the speed of light time stops completely. It ceases to exist. What you call 'future' or 'past' is simply our interpretation of the reality of us traveling at sub-luminal speeds. If we could travel at the speed of light, such interpretation would not be necessary, or even noticeable. Time is not real. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:digitek1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy. "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] to paraphrase einstein Time is relative but it does exist -since the speed of light is finite...hence the future is real, cause and effect is real Reality isn't existence. Huh! "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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mv_ufanisi wrote:murchr wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:digitek1 wrote:Jews are disproportionately richer than any other religion and they are very religious as a simple Google search of wealth vs religion shows
capitalism also owes it's spread to the Protestant work ethic
What's the GDP per capita of Israel an almost entirely Jewish country? Not among the top 10 highest in the world. Christians like to tout Jewish exceptionalism as some kind of "god-given" trait while Muslims probably see the oil wealth of the middle east as some evidence of "super-natural" providence. Fuzzy statistics to confuse those who don't cross check stats. Per wikipedia 2013 - GDP -290.6B; PPP - $36,051.15; Size of Israel - 8,019m2 (about 2 Nyanza provinces) Population 8M Jews abroad esp those in Europe and America are real rich..To name a few, the Rothschild; Larry Elison - Oracle, Michael Bloomberg; The google boys - Larry Page and Sergey Brin, George Soros Mark Cuban etc If you want to understand this read Gldwell's "Outliers" Culture plays a very big part in shaping a people Your stats don't discount the FACT that Israel is not among top 10 richest countries in the world on a GDP per Capita basis. Indian-Americans are the richest ethnic group in America yet India which I assume to have the most Hindus in the world is a real laggard in terms of wealth. The fact of the matter is that an Indian tech entrepreneur will have more in common with a Silicon Valley entrepreneur than with a guy pushing a rickshaw in Bangalore.
and thus "culture" is the determining factor! culture is everything... All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Wakanyugi wrote:digitek1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete. How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things? Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn. Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary. In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect. Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience). This revelation process is conditioned on: a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc) b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth Is the universe currently timeless? I think it is. One of the accepted definitions of the Universe says that it contains everything that could possibly exist (Quantum physics, not Metaphysics). This includes all permutations of all things in all forms. In such a scenario, nothing came before anything else. Everything simply IS. The need to order things in linear form is a convention forced on humans by the need to overcome the limitations of 'living' in a 3 dimensional reality. It is no more real than space or gravity, for instance. No time. You need to have a lot of guts to tell people that time doesn't exist. Contrary to their daily experience. Not guts. So long as you have found Einstein, and let him into your personal life, it is easy. "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." [Einstein] to paraphrase einstein Time is relative but it does exist -since the speed of light is finite...hence the future is real, cause and effect is real The implication of this statement is even more strange. To a beam of light, time does not exist.Time and the speed of light have an inverse relationship. The faster you go, the slower time flows. To anything that travels at the speed of light time stops completely. It ceases to exist. What you call 'future' or 'past' is simply our interpretation of the reality of us traveling at sub-luminal speeds. If we could travel at the speed of light, such interpretation would not be necessary, or even noticeable. Time is not real. Light is invisible. For light to be known light has to be reflected off something. Hence, light depends on matter otherwise, there is 'no light', light does not exist. Hence light and it's speed are not a standard because they are relative. Are we sure that the concepts we build around light can stand? Can it then be said for certain for instance that we are not currently travelling at the speed of light through space?
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