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The Revolution of Consciusness
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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 .. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Any revolution is also a result of humans working hard to understand and 'control' nature. We must realize that our philosophy and culture must be studied and questioned with respect to our daily experiences.
We must embrace humiliation. Tycho; why do we need to embrace humiliation? Surely when our beliefs are proved wrong, all we need is to accept the lesson learned and move on? Knowledge is protected by the self. To learn, the self must lose. Against the Self.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote:Hmm...
Of oneness and separateness and drawing from the double slit experiment...
At what level am i conscious ? at sub atomic level?atomic level? molecular? tissue level ? my organs ? all levels simultaneously ?
If consciousness exists at say molecular level.. it would explain 2 things.
1. Spontaneous healing (Where it has occurred)
2. Cancer (The rogue cells decide to go rogue)
My questions are drawn in part from recordings of a certain 'madman' on youtube.
So where is my consciousness ?
Your consciousness is in the distinction of two or more states, or 'things'. @Muriel, to distinguish you must unite. We are both seperate and one. What's the proportion of 'matter' to 'dark matter'? Not perceiving doesn't imply inexistence.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Mtu Biz wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:Hmm...
Of oneness and separateness and drawing from the double slit experiment...
At what level am i conscious ? at sub atomic level?atomic level? molecular? tissue level ? my organs ? all levels simultaneously ?
If consciousness exists at say molecular level.. it would explain 2 things.
1. Spontaneous healing (Where it has occurred)
2. Cancer (The rogue cells decide to go rogue)
My questions are drawn in part from recordings of a certain 'madman' on youtube.
So where is my consciousness ?
This is a tough question. I believe consciousness exists at cellular level. But you could also argue that it exists at sub atomic level, which would explain weird Quantum science events like entanglement or even matter/wave duality. Which would mean that all things are conscious.....mhhhhm. Do you think say plants are conscious ? ! There is plenty of research that proves plants feel pain, react to different stimuli and even communicate - all qualities that we associate with consciousness. In fact I would argue that, if consciousness is molecular, all living things are conscious. The question I struggle with is whether 'inanimate' objects, like rocks, chairs, cars etc, are cosncius. These days I am becoming persuaded that they are. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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simonkabz wrote:.. I can see Schrodingers cat is confused too  "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness?
I foresee chains and bonds for the separated ones. That all may be one. The maxim. There are some things you wouldn't want to be one with. Maybe so. But the question is, are there any things that we are not one with? We are all one with something. The question is what. Allow me to rephrase: ' We are all one with everything. The question is, why do we chose to be one with things that we do not like?' Let me borrow from what @Muriel wrote before.Physically we are not one.Why can't it extend to consciousness? Being similar or having the capacity to affect each other doesn't make us one. How now? Your arms and legs and nose etc all 'different.' Does that make You separate? Similarly you and I may look different but, genetically speaking we are not. If you shine a light through a prism it splits into many different colors. Does that make the light separate? In the same way all 'things' that comprise the Universe only seem separate. They are not. There is a reason why we create this illusion of separateness, but it is not real. The scientific, religious, philosophical evidence in this regard is overwhelming. But of course it is hard to let go of a favored illusion. What shall happen to us then? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Any revolution is also a result of humans working hard to understand and 'control' nature. We must realize that our philosophy and culture must be studied and questioned with respect to our daily experiences.
We must embrace humiliation. Tycho; why do we need to embrace humiliation? Surely when our beliefs are proved wrong, all we need is to accept the lesson learned and move on? Knowledge is protected by the self. To learn, the self must lose. Against the Self. But why would we chose humiliation? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Mtu Biz wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness? Why does this sound familiar? May I invite you to consider this: Separateness is not the same as 'uniqueness'; 'autonomy'; 'freedom' even 'individualism' which are all things we fear losing if we lose our separateness. If you stood by a street corner and watched human beings pass by, you would think they are all different. Yet scientists now tell us that, according to DNA, (the basic code that defines who we are) we are 99.9% similar.In other words, as 'un-seprate' as makes no difference. Ms. Williamson accepts that "on the level of bodies, we're all separate of course." Why then are the scientists contradicting her by saying that we are 99.9% similar? This is dissonance. Wewe! Read what wakanyugi has said and what you are saying.... slowly. Your response to him is dissonance. I was certain. Now I think I am. laugh.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Any revolution is also a result of humans working hard to understand and 'control' nature. We must realize that our philosophy and culture must be studied and questioned with respect to our daily experiences.
We must embrace humiliation. Tycho; why do we need to embrace humiliation? Surely when our beliefs are proved wrong, all we need is to accept the lesson learned and move on? Knowledge is protected by the self. To learn, the self must lose. Against the Self. But why would we chose humiliation? Everything has a cost. To be better the ego must pay. Look at initiation rites. Or how we look at past civilizations as backward.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness?
I foresee chains and bonds for the separated ones. That all may be one. The maxim. There are some things you wouldn't want to be one with. Maybe so. But the question is, are there any things that we are not one with? We are all one with something. The question is what. Allow me to rephrase: ' We are all one with everything. The question is, why do we chose to be one with things that we do not like?' Let me borrow from what @Muriel wrote before.Physically we are not one.Why can't it extend to consciousness? Being similar or having the capacity to affect each other doesn't make us one. How now? Your arms and legs and nose etc all 'different.' Does that make You separate? Similarly you and I may look different but, genetically speaking we are not. If you shine a light through a prism it splits into many different colors. Does that make the light separate? In the same way all 'things' that comprise the Universe only seem separate. They are not. There is a reason why we create this illusion of separateness, but it is not real. The scientific, religious, philosophical evidence in this regard is overwhelming. But of course it is hard to let go of a favored illusion. What shall happen to us then? If I have two plastic chairs,are they one because they are similar? Are you saying that we are like the body? What is the scientific,religious and philosophical evidence?
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