@a4a.com wouldnt jkia need infrastructure wherever it will relocate to? Your argument seems to imply that govt institutions do not need infrastructure...

@jagernaut, in developed countries where land use planning is taken seriously, schools in urban areas are taxed heavily to compensate for hoarding developed prime land. Patch n changez, with hundreds of acres, fall in this category. These schools can then expand,upgrade into colleges and universities to compensate. jkia has caused ruai ,utawala and syokimau to have only 2 levels of building height due to flight path. This in turn has caused for nairobi to expand hence using more land and more tax payer money on unnecessary infrastructure. This doesnt sit well with the environment and kenyas budget.

@jamani, i supposed you saw our debate about konza viability in previous posts. My argument then was that konza is not feasible. This argument came to pass sometime early this year on what i had predicted.

http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...spx?g=posts&t=24882

I can predict to you that those glossy pictures of skyscrapers will not stand at konza within the next 40 to 50 years. Konza will be a city in the next 40 to 50 years or so. If Jkia is moved to konza, this is a good area for height restriction since population is still low. In the next 40 to 50 years, architects and planners who will take over after us will advise that jkia is shifted from konza to mtito andei.

Its high time kenyans started to see the bigger picture and move from the self to decisions that benefit the country as a whole. This is how developed countries eg usa, china, russia and europe work. Major decisions are left to professionals who decide for the benefit of the whole country. The lynch mob psychology seen with kenyans will not take us far as a country. Demolisions in syokimau and the threat to demolision in the kevivapi land to me are wrong and not beneficial to our economy.

@Jamani and @jaggernaut, i supposed you also will be happy when your tax payer money doesnt go to duplicate infrastructure, when you can live near nairobi cbd, when land is available for developers near nairobi hence lower rents etc. If such is beneficial to you, you have no choice but to embrace critical thinking/seeing things in new dimensions etc to solve such problems.

For example, beth mugo had suggested that another school be built within lenana school land. She was bombarded by the usual lynch mob and now the lenana school land continues to lie idle. This could have created more jobs etc etc

http://allafrica.com/stories/200612040529.html

Kenya: Minister in Land Dispute With School
BY MBURU MWANGI, 4 DECEMBER 2006
Nairobi — A tussle over land belonging to a top school is brewing after its board of governors declined to give up 40 acres as requested by an assistant minister for Education.

Dagoretti MP Beth Mugo wrote to Nairobi's Lenana School two weeks ago asking it to surrender the land for the establishment of a multi-purpose educational centre.

Jfk has not been moved, heathrow has not been moved, dubai international airport still being expanded in the middle of the city, just to mention but a few.. Your focus is only in nairobi for housing development...open your eyes.....You suggest JKIA be moved to mtito!! aaaih! I rest my case

And to add on to that today we celebrate Thika highway, other east african countries come for case studies....but think about it, if nakumatt and other buildings on the reserve were not demolished would we be celebrating?

@jamani, there is a difference between simple land disputes and land issues that affect national economies. The thika road nakumatt land issue is very minor and has no impact on the economy. The syokimau land was 4000 acres and kevivapi land is 148 acres. The nakumatt land was at most 1 acre.
You still have not gotten my logic. My issue is not about small minor land disputes but huge land masses close to the city that dont fall within the compulsory land acquisition bracket. Lands along roads etc should be compulsorily acquired for national good.

You are just making me not rest my case, none of the airports moved because someone had encrouched. Look at the reasons for moving those airports none is affecting JKIA, we dont have snow, we have enough land infact a second runaway and terminal can be constructed without issue.
Mtito was very far i guess you saw sense and now have moved your thoughts to daystar. But i still insist there are no issues with where JKIA is the issue is encrouchment which you seem to support fully.

The economy of land depends 100% on a working legal system.

The fact is it is land issues that started the whole clamour for laws to protect the poor and the very wealthy.

So when a country such as ours goes ahead and starts dismantling land laws, then the value of the land will diminish over time. If a buyer cannot be assured of true ownership, then why buy land.

That is the reason land law must be followed to the letter. Especially in a country where land has caused a few skirmishes.

So the issue here is not planning, the issue here is law.

If the gov't has been perpetrating illegal moves and even using NSSF to fulfil such illegality, then we have a problem.

You can plan all the good houses you want. but the moment investors start losing heart in the value or validity of a title deed, you can forget your grand plans.

This probably the reason why Kenyans just love ponzi schemes. They can't trust the professionals in land matters.

If the land was acquired illegally, it should be taken back. And it will be taken back if this gov't has a spine.

The owners of such properties can then sue, the city council, the developers, the valuers, the banks, the architects et al for perpetrating a fraud.

If they follow that route, they will make more money than the percieved appreciation of property values.

So I would like to keep this issue clean. No meandering with issues of proper land use. Its an issue of Kenyans trusting a title deed anymore.

Now to answer your question. How would the original owners utilise this land the way you want them to, if they find that their land has already been stolen from them?

What makes you think they would not have built the same houses? Don't behave like the car thief who steals a car because he can drive the car better than the owner.

Let us not confuse everyone here by trying to mix issues.

If the gov't wants to increase the size of a road or increase the length of a runway, that falls under compulsory acquisition. The owner of the land must also agree to such acquisition (check the case of the guy at the bomas highway).

Syokimau and this winners chapel is different.

Someone stole land from someone. Then sold it to someone who was just a bad investor. The bad investor is actually handling stolen property.

Should the bad investor pay for his bad business choices? Yes. He shouldn't bring the issue of his loses to us as he will never bring the issue of his profits to us either.

So yes, burn down those houses.

For the bad investor, this investment is already rotten.

If last week they were sitting on property values of ksh. 18m, those values have dropped significantly even if the houses still stand.

Why?

Because only a dumb fool would go buy those houses knowing that the original title owner is not happy and may come for his property next week, next year, 20yrs after jubilee. But he's coming.

The banks which signed off on these mortgages would never sign of to a second mortgage or use those properties as collateral unless someone wants to be fired.

So what they are sitting on right now is a space sorrounded by stones covered in marble. Not a property and it is losing value every day. They can continue with their habits of bad investing or they can take my advice.

Organise and sue the hell out of everyone involved in this project. And I mean everyone, even the cobbler next door. Only then will they get their values back.

That 16billion being thrown around here is sitting in the pockets of the architects, lawyers, valuers, bankers, developers etc who sold them the land.

They should and can get it back. Not behave like the syokimau fellows who accepted and moved on.

@alma, when the 16 billion is sitting in the pockets of architects, lawyers, valuers etc , there is nothing wrong with it since this is how an economy is created. This means jobs and opportunities have been created for many people. Of course, i would also like to be amongst them but since i cant, i will not feel jealous about it or wish them bad. Its all for the good of the country. NSSF, a govt agency, bought the land from kevevapi, a govt agency. If there was an illegality, then nssf is to blame, not the developers. Am sure if you go to ministry of lands and carry out a search, it will show a clean title withhistory showing land sale from kevevapi to nssf to the developer. How would you expect any kenyan to determine fraud when papers show a clean trail? Its not our business to know how govt transacts its nitty gritty between its agencies.