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Alcoblow - Is it the solution?
Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Magigi wrote:washiku wrote:1. 3years ago, a guy we grew up with in shags...heavily drunk. Driving along Isiolo-Meru road. At around 2am...crushed with his Toyota Raum n died on the spot.
2. Last year but one...2012. A guy we were in campus with...was working for KCB. They are so drunk, driving along Mombasa road. Kufika Nyayo, they forgot kuna round-about. Drove on top of it. Car crushed. Lives crushed.
3. Mid last year, July specifically. A friend from Nyeri. Guys quite drunk. They decide to road test a new Subaru. Drives along valley road, takes a turn at the Kenyatta avenue round about n drives upwards towards hurlingam. Just at the round about near Total, they forgot to break, hit a car that was already on the round about. Guys rushed to Nairobi hospital. Few days later, the guy is dead...
Those r guys I knew personally. Very young n promising lives lost. There are many more such sad stories. They had driven b4 when drunk but these were just days they either took slightly more, or they were tired, or whatever. Only them could tell the tale, but its too late. Dead gives no stories. If only alcoblow had come, maybe they could have feared on those specific nights n they wud still be with us.
About Govt n EABL, they better have you drink a few bottles n drink for long, than drink 20 bottles n drink for your final night. Your longer live would make more business sense to them.
One more challenge is that you may be OK risking your live like that, but on the way yu hit n kill or maim an innocent guy who was just driving safely. Why now?
Don't drink when drunk. Its not fair to either you or other road users. Am talking of major road accidents..Are they caused by drunk drivers? Mahi Mahiu accident and the rest. If a guy finds himself on top of Nyayo roadabout he should pay the 'beauticians' of that roundabout, even when he is dead! Those that you call major just become major because they were reported n mostly will have involved public vehicles. The small ones esp of private cars all over the country never get reported by the media. Maybe they could even be the majority with the kind of driving we see on roads...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Accidents don't happen because people are drinking and driving. They happen because people's needs aren't being met easily enough to sustain caution in life.
So when police are set to find people who are 'intent' on killing themselves then people will grow more creative in their death wish.
If the government is keen on having the citizenry alive then it should focus on maximizing markets and market efficiency and effectiveness for all. This entails promoting a culture of collaborative innovation, ubiquitous and affordable capital, maximization of ICT and the promotion of fair division of wealth and power among citizens. Then it will be possible for people to drink responsibly, obey laws and generally be mindful of others.
Otherwise people will now taking more of other non alcoholic drugs. And soon we'll have bangi-blow, glue-blow and the like. And policemen would be so greatly encumbered carrying a gun and a dozen other 'blows'.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:Accidents don't happen because people are drinking and driving. They happen because people's needs aren't being met easily enough to sustain caution in life.
So when police are set to find people who are 'intent' on killing themselves then people will grow more creative in their death wish.
If the government is keen on having the citizenry alive then it should focus on maximizing markets and market efficiency and effectiveness for all. This entails promoting a culture of collaborative innovation, ubiquitous and affordable capital, maximization of ICT and the promotion of fair division of wealth and power among citizens. Then it will be possible for people to drink responsibly, obey laws and generally be mindful of others.
Otherwise people will now taking more of other non alcoholic drugs. And soon we'll have bangi-blow, glue-blow and the like. And policemen would be so greatly encumbered carrying a gun and a dozen other 'blows'. Some accidents happen cause of drunken driving. That is an irrefutable fact. If even 5 deaths can be averted, that is progress,...then we will move on to the more comprehensive offerings that you have proposed, if such things are possible.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:Accidents don't happen because people are drinking and driving. They happen because people's needs aren't being met easily enough to sustain caution in life.
So when police are set to find people who are 'intent' on killing themselves then people will grow more creative in their death wish.
If the government is keen on having the citizenry alive then it should focus on maximizing markets and market efficiency and effectiveness for all. This entails promoting a culture of collaborative innovation, ubiquitous and affordable capital, maximization of ICT and the promotion of fair division of wealth and power among citizens. Then it will be possible for people to drink responsibly, obey laws and generally be mindful of others.
Otherwise people will now taking more of other non alcoholic drugs. And soon we'll have bangi-blow, glue-blow and the like. And policemen would be so greatly encumbered carrying a gun and a dozen other 'blows'. Some accidents happen cause of drunken driving. That is an irrefutable fact. If even 5 deaths can be averted, that is progress,...then we will move on to the more comprehensive offerings that you have proposed, if such things are possible. Alcohol is the among most suitable drugs to commit suicide with. Alcohol abuse is a lifestyle problem. So when people lose lives on the road due to a lifestyle problem you look at the root cause otherwise substitutes to restricted habits can always be found. For example, in the last 3 months I have heard of at least two people who fell from the balcony and died while being drunk. Or thugs take alcoholic concoctions before going on their missions. How does one then prevent these deaths? By blaming it on alcohol?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:Accidents don't happen because people are drinking and driving. They happen because people's needs aren't being met easily enough to sustain caution in life.
So when police are set to find people who are 'intent' on killing themselves then people will grow more creative in their death wish.
If the government is keen on having the citizenry alive then it should focus on maximizing markets and market efficiency and effectiveness for all. This entails promoting a culture of collaborative innovation, ubiquitous and affordable capital, maximization of ICT and the promotion of fair division of wealth and power among citizens. Then it will be possible for people to drink responsibly, obey laws and generally be mindful of others.
Otherwise people will now taking more of other non alcoholic drugs. And soon we'll have bangi-blow, glue-blow and the like. And policemen would be so greatly encumbered carrying a gun and a dozen other 'blows'. Some accidents happen cause of drunken driving. That is an irrefutable fact. If even 5 deaths can be averted, that is progress,...then we will move on to the more comprehensive offerings that you have proposed, if such things are possible. Alcohol is the among most suitable drugs to commit suicide with. Alcohol abuse is a lifestyle problem. So when people lose lives on the road due to a lifestyle problem you look at the root cause otherwise substitutes to restricted habits can always be found. For example, in the last 3 months I have heard of at least two people who fell from the balcony and died while being drunk. Or thugs take alcoholic concoctions before going on their missions. How does one then prevent these deaths? By blaming it on alcohol? Morality is hard to legislate; But it is easier to say that you cannot interfere with the freedom of others, or place them at risk by your actions. Alcoblow falls within boundaries such as these. Drunk drivers are a danger to all. Alcohol itself is blameless, the desire that leads one to alcohol will likely lead to something else if alcohol is eliminated. Just that alcohol is the most common, legal and cheap way to intoxication and hence a methodology to fight it off the roads cause of its ubiquity has been found - the alcoblow. But the principle remains the same, if you are intoxicated (under the influence of a substance), you shouldnt drive. The other point is sensitization and steering society towards responsible use of alcohol is not the domain of law enforcement. This rests elsewhere, social services, churches, schools and the education system perhaps. Still, punishment for deviation cannot be avoided - actions/consequences is a powerful concept in the human psyche. Without it any positive reinforcements would be hollow. The threat of punishment, regardless of flaws, must remain even while we know there are deeper problems.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/1/2013 Posts: 106
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We need to stop thinking we are invincible and start taking responsibility for our actions. A former BF once told me he was drunk because his friends kept buying him drinks ... then he got into the car and drove his thoroughly drunk self home. Same kind of thinking many people out there have.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/21/2008 Posts: 2,490
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/26/2008 Posts: 2,097
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Magigi wrote:Njung'e wrote:Magigi wrote:Pole...We are talking of responsible drinking. Drinking uji has never made anyone irresponsible. @Timuka, It's 2014  Let us then close down East African Breweries...   LIFE MOVES ON WHEN YOU ARE GONEAnd the EABL Slogan is coincidentally "Celebrating Life"  "Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:Accidents don't happen because people are drinking and driving. They happen because people's needs aren't being met easily enough to sustain caution in life.
So when police are set to find people who are 'intent' on killing themselves then people will grow more creative in their death wish.
If the government is keen on having the citizenry alive then it should focus on maximizing markets and market efficiency and effectiveness for all. This entails promoting a culture of collaborative innovation, ubiquitous and affordable capital, maximization of ICT and the promotion of fair division of wealth and power among citizens. Then it will be possible for people to drink responsibly, obey laws and generally be mindful of others.
Otherwise people will now taking more of other non alcoholic drugs. And soon we'll have bangi-blow, glue-blow and the like. And policemen would be so greatly encumbered carrying a gun and a dozen other 'blows'. Some accidents happen cause of drunken driving. That is an irrefutable fact. If even 5 deaths can be averted, that is progress,...then we will move on to the more comprehensive offerings that you have proposed, if such things are possible. Alcohol is the among most suitable drugs to commit suicide with. Alcohol abuse is a lifestyle problem. So when people lose lives on the road due to a lifestyle problem you look at the root cause otherwise substitutes to restricted habits can always be found. For example, in the last 3 months I have heard of at least two people who fell from the balcony and died while being drunk. Or thugs take alcoholic concoctions before going on their missions. How does one then prevent these deaths? By blaming it on alcohol? Morality is hard to legislate; But it is easier to say that you cannot interfere with the freedom of others, or place them at risk by your actions. Alcoblow falls within boundaries such as these. Drunk drivers are a danger to all. Alcohol itself is blameless, the desire that leads one to alcohol will likely lead to something else if alcohol is eliminated. Just that alcohol is the most common, legal and cheap way to intoxication and hence a methodology to fight it off the roads cause of its ubiquity has been found - the alcoblow. But the principle remains the same, if you are intoxicated (under the influence of a substance), you shouldnt drive. The other point is sensitization and steering society towards responsible use of alcohol is not the domain of law enforcement. This rests elsewhere, social services, churches, schools and the education system perhaps. Still, punishment for deviation cannot be avoided - actions/consequences is a powerful concept in the human psyche. Without it any positive reinforcements would be hollow. The threat of punishment, regardless of flaws, must remain even while we know there are deeper problems. @quicksand, I have found that force doesn't cause change in behavior. Instead costs and revenues rise for the main players. And things remain the same. The pub owner wants to sell as much as possible and client to spend as much as possible on happiness. That's how the market is currently operating. And that's why people are dying. Threat of force can be effective when all aren't law breakers. But what if all are law breakers? Laws backed by force are inadequate and limited.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:Accidents don't happen because people are drinking and driving. They happen because people's needs aren't being met easily enough to sustain caution in life.
So when police are set to find people who are 'intent' on killing themselves then people will grow more creative in their death wish.
If the government is keen on having the citizenry alive then it should focus on maximizing markets and market efficiency and effectiveness for all. This entails promoting a culture of collaborative innovation, ubiquitous and affordable capital, maximization of ICT and the promotion of fair division of wealth and power among citizens. Then it will be possible for people to drink responsibly, obey laws and generally be mindful of others.
Otherwise people will now taking more of other non alcoholic drugs. And soon we'll have bangi-blow, glue-blow and the like. And policemen would be so greatly encumbered carrying a gun and a dozen other 'blows'. Some accidents happen cause of drunken driving. That is an irrefutable fact. If even 5 deaths can be averted, that is progress,...then we will move on to the more comprehensive offerings that you have proposed, if such things are possible. Alcohol is the among most suitable drugs to commit suicide with. Alcohol abuse is a lifestyle problem. So when people lose lives on the road due to a lifestyle problem you look at the root cause otherwise substitutes to restricted habits can always be found. For example, in the last 3 months I have heard of at least two people who fell from the balcony and died while being drunk. Or thugs take alcoholic concoctions before going on their missions. How does one then prevent these deaths? By blaming it on alcohol? Morality is hard to legislate; But it is easier to say that you cannot interfere with the freedom of others, or place them at risk by your actions. Alcoblow falls within boundaries such as these. Drunk drivers are a danger to all. Alcohol itself is blameless, the desire that leads one to alcohol will likely lead to something else if alcohol is eliminated. Just that alcohol is the most common, legal and cheap way to intoxication and hence a methodology to fight it off the roads cause of its ubiquity has been found - the alcoblow. But the principle remains the same, if you are intoxicated (under the influence of a substance), you shouldnt drive. The other point is sensitization and steering society towards responsible use of alcohol is not the domain of law enforcement. This rests elsewhere, social services, churches, schools and the education system perhaps. Still, punishment for deviation cannot be avoided - actions/consequences is a powerful concept in the human psyche. Without it any positive reinforcements would be hollow. The threat of punishment, regardless of flaws, must remain even while we know there are deeper problems. @quicksand, I have found that force doesn't cause change in behavior. Instead costs and revenues rise for the main players. And things remain the same. The pub owner wants to sell as much as possible and client to spend as much as possible on happiness. That's how the market is currently operating. And that's why people are dying. Threat of force can be effective when all aren't law breakers. But what if all are law breakers? Laws backed by force are inadequate and limited. @tycho: All true but what is the substitute? In an ideal situation, such as you find in rich, developed economies, they throw different solutions at the problem, all at once or in some order of sorts. But force is still there, its the last resort but they have this luxury ..thats why have rehab, cautions, being stripped of licenses to operate businesses or drive etc etc with frameworks in place to operate these smoothly. What do we have? Much as force is ineffective, removing it would lead to anarchy. Also why all governments, even the most civilized and peaceful have police and armed forces. God Himself promises a fiery hell and eternal torment for those who disobey him. See? It really can't be helped. Do not place your hopes on enlightment of society. Left to its own devices, it wouldn't exist. Our little discussion here is digressing the thread. Apologies.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,909
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Are the units there every day of the week or only on Fridays & weekeds? If only for 3 days then is is a hopeless effort doomed to fail. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Allegedly, the trick to beating the Alcoblow is garlic. After a night out at the club, chew a whole bulb (or two) of garlic and Alcoblow will not detect the Tusker/Smirnoff fumes. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Alco-Blow is on THIKA ROAD! Watu wa phombe avoid Thika Road! Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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jguru wrote:Alco-Blow is on THIKA ROAD!
Watu wa phombe avoid Thika Road! There is an easier way to avoid all this... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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Mututho clears The Boss of links to drug trade.War of attritionLife is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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