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This is purely Assault ,is it worth persuing in court
mnandii
#41 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:30:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
alma wrote:
mawinder wrote:

At least he has been given an option of cash bail.@alma the complainant i suppose you are referring to is a mere witness and cannot withdraw the case for the fake currency.About your views on magistrates and lawyers,I disagree.


I'm really hoping that you aren't one of the ones I have mentioned. As twice in this post you have got it wrong.

Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
jguru
#42 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:31:25 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
jjred, just settle, pay the cash if need be, have the case discontinued, walk away and forget about all this. Tough luck, your friend got conned and beaten. Courts and lawyers in Kenya are for politicians and rich people. Justice is a ridiculous sham.
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
bkismat
#43 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:40:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
jjred wrote:
Jesus Christ,the Magistrate is now asking for Ksh.40,000 for the guy to be released.Its so sad

Is there anyway that this case can get before the Judges and Magistrates Vetting Board?
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
mnandii
#44 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:40:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
Proving a criminal case, as @Elder states is not an easy matter. Most of us assume that just because a cop has arrested you then you are already guilty. The circumstances to this case at least show that the police do not have a tight case.

I believe the lawyer should be able to transfer the matter to a high court. This is grounded on the fact that the case is not merely criminal but has aspects creating doubt on the sincerity of the police who made the arrest.

Years of misrule in Kenya have made people to fear those in 'authority'. Our new judiciary should be able to correct this.

@jred should also consider reporting this case to the ombudsman since some public officers (police) are getting involved in 'criminal activity'.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mnandii
#45 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:44:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
bkismat wrote:
jjred wrote:
Jesus Christ,the Magistrate is now asking for Ksh.40,000 for the guy to be released.Its so sad

Is there anyway that this case can get before the Judges and Magistrates Vetting Board?


As much as @jjred is seeking assistance I think he should also provide accurate information. This Ksh 40,000 is it a bribe or isn't it simply cash bail? In principle cash bail will be returned to you once you win your case and should not be seen as something 'bad'.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mawinder
#46 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:52:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
bkismat wrote:
jjred wrote:
Jesus Christ,the Magistrate is now asking for Ksh.40,000 for the guy to be released.Its so sad

Is there anyway that this case can get before the Judges and Magistrates Vetting Board?
If the magistrate is asking for 40k as a bribe which I highly doubt,yes you can take the case to the vetting board but if it is for cash bail,in all fairness he has done nothing wrong but has merely followed the law,the 40k is security to ensure he turns up in court for hearing.
jjred
#47 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:54:21 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
@tycho,i wish it was that easy.Some of us were brought up in a very tight Christian culture to an extend that it cant cross our mind to visit a witchdoctor...."two wrongs does not make a right"

@Alma,the same applies,infact,when you suggested that,i tried to propose for him since am already down financially,the cash i sent him were some loan i had taken to register my dota in school but i couldnt wait to see my innocent brother being jailed,but he said a big NO.At the point of breaking down,he just requested me to help him out by doing whatever i have to do,he shall refund.

@mnandii,thanks,we shall try as much as possible to talk to whoever can give as a listening ear.He personally went to anti-corruption authority but they told him that they dont deal with such cases since its a crimainal case
jjred
#48 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 12:01:38 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
Atleast now i can breath,this friend to my brother has mannaged to pay the cash bail.I shall keep you people updated
alma
#49 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 12:10:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@jjred my advice is only offered since you need to see reality first in order to deal with such an issue.

Do not take it lightly.

I'm of the view that if he's innocent, he will walk. How he walks is the issue. There are two ways:

1. Settle out of court. In which case you will hate the fellow and possibly yourself. But it is an option based on the realities of the magistrate courts in Kenya.

Don't for one minute trust anyone that says that the judiciary is reformed. His freedom is too important to be grounded on here-say.

But it is an option you should sit down and think very soberly about. Talk to your pastor if you have to. But think about it.

2. Go the full hog and challenge it. This option is best for the spirit but full of many holes in your finances.

Mnandii has some good suggestions. I like the one of moving the case to a higher court. And the ombudsman. Even cops are afraid of being interrogated.

I would suggest you take your time a look for an honest hard working lawyer. You will need him/her. Please don't go for the cheap lawyer who promised you sure success. Go for one who's good and understands the system.

In this case, simama kidete and let the cops have to prove their case.

The truth of the matter is, its a he says, she says case so your lawyer had better be damn good.

My experience is that most lawyers I've seen in those court rooms should be hanged.

I'm for not bribing and sticking to honesty and integrity. But that's just me. I have stood in those court rooms and told a cop in his face that he's a liar and his children should be ashamed.

It is not easy going through the process for a minimum of 1 year when they will do anything to delay the process.

Those are just the facts.

It's up to you to figure out what is best for yourselves.

But don't swallow the cool aid that there is anything easy about your situation. God just handed you another card. Play it wisely and shrewdly.

I can give you horror stories in those magistrates courts so be wise and everything should be fine in the end.

Do keep us updated.

Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
jjred
#50 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 12:23:37 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
@mnadnii,i have looked at ombudsman,but what i can see is that we need to lodge a complain that the officers are compromising which full proof we dont have even though i still dont understand why they did not check the Cashier's drawer to ensure that there were no genuine notes inside before arresting the guy if at all they wanted to be fair to both parties

Currently they have provided the serial number of the fake notes as their evidence and next hearing will be on 21st jan.How i wish the finger print of those who touched the fake 10k notes could be established to sort this issue since this guy only touched 1k when he was told the notes were fake,which means the 9k notes does not have his finger prints
jjred
#51 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 12:40:02 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
I now have a feeling that we can lodge complain on Incompetency(manifest of injustice) of Public officer,as stated;-

Article 59(2) (i) of the Constitution further requires the Commission to investigate complaints on;

•Abuse of power
•Manifest injustice and;
•Unlawful, oppressive, unfair or unresponsive official conduct

Let me discuss this with my guy,i will give him CAJ contact to lodge complain himself since he has full details ....
mawinder
#52 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 1:08:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
jjred wrote:
I now have a feeling that we can lodge complain on Incompetency(manifest of injustice) of Public officer,as stated;-

Article 59(2) (i) of the Constitution further requires the Commission to investigate complaints on;

•Abuse of power
•Manifest injustice and;
•Unlawful, oppressive, unfair or unresponsive official conduct

Let me discuss this with my guy,i will give him CAJ contact to lodge complain himself since he has full details ....

Don't waste time with lodging complaints without adequate evidence to back you up.Get a good advocate and let him do his work or know how to talk to people,this is a small matter which obviously lacks credible witnesses.As for 21st,that day is for mention i.e to confirm if he has been released on bail or not,nothing else.
CaptainGG
#53 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:41:15 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/13/2011
Posts: 67
Location: Kenya
@Jired, the magistrate is just following the law. If your guy pleads not guilty, he has to buy his freedom through cash bail which is a normal court procedure. You are making it appear like the magistrate asked you for 40k. The court must follow its due process. If you were not ready for it, then you should have forfeited the police bond coz I do not think anyone would have come looking for your guy.

How sure are you your guy did not have the fake notes, could be true also.
tycho
#54 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2013 7:14:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@jjred, you have done well to remind me of God. For ultimately, the laws depend on Him.

This is also a moment for prayer, that justice may prevail. I cannot imagine justice without prayer anymore!
jjred
#55 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2013 8:53:46 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
@thanks tycho,at the moment personally am powerless,May the God of heavens who allows everything to happen and knows the truth intervene.

Fot those who didnt understand what the 40k is all about,once again its a cash bail.I didnt mention bribe anywhere....infact so far nobody including the poice has asked for bribe.Since the incidence,its only the Agent who has been pushing the tenant to Pay rent or face eviction.Infact,they were telling him why he had to pay the first police bond instead of using that money to pay rent.
sky5
#56 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2013 9:31:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
@jjred, it seems your guy has been put on the defensive. Did your guy ever prefer the assault charges against the agent?

You are at war and need all the ammunition you can gather. You may need to put the agent on the defensive even if before a different court.
jjred
#57 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2013 10:08:18 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 63
@sky5,he has a medical report but his lawyer told him that its a bit tricky since he has got no witness when he was being beaten so it might not succeed for luck of evidence.
How can we put the agent on the defensive,it it by sueing him differantly?please share
Ngong
#58 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:09:43 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 1,461
Location: Ngong Forest
jguru wrote:
jjred, just settle, pay the cash if need be, have the case discontinued, walk away and forget about all this. Tough luck, your friend got conned and beaten. Courts and lawyers in Kenya are for politicians and rich people. Justice is a ridiculous sham.


Kweri kabisa! umesahau hardcore criminals they always win.
KenSaf
#59 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:51:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/4/2008
Posts: 394
alma wrote:
@jjred my advice is only offered since you need to see reality first in order to deal with such an issue.

Do not take it lightly.

I'm of the view that if he's innocent, he will walk. How he walks is the issue. There are two ways:

1. Settle out of court. In which case you will hate the fellow and possibly yourself. But it is an option based on the realities of the magistrate courts in Kenya.

Don't for one minute trust anyone that says that the judiciary is reformed. His freedom is too important to be grounded on here-say.

But it is an option you should sit down and think very soberly about. Talk to your pastor if you have to. But think about it.

2. Go the full hog and challenge it. This option is best for the spirit but full of many holes in your finances.

Mnandii has some good suggestions. I like the one of moving the case to a higher court. And the ombudsman. Even cops are afraid of being interrogated.

I would suggest you take your time a look for an honest hard working lawyer. You will need him/her. Please don't go for the cheap lawyer who promised you sure success. Go for one who's good and understands the system.

In this case, simama kidete and let the cops have to prove their case.

The truth of the matter is, its a he says, she says case so your lawyer had better be damn good.

My experience is that most lawyers I've seen in those court rooms should be hanged.

I'm for not bribing and sticking to honesty and integrity. But that's just me. I have stood in those court rooms and told a cop in his face that he's a liar and his children should be ashamed.

It is not easy going through the process for a minimum of 1 year when they will do anything to delay the process.

Those are just the facts.

It's up to you to figure out what is best for yourselves.

But don't swallow the cool aid that there is anything easy about your situation. God just handed you another card. Play it wisely and shrewdly.

I can give you horror stories in those magistrates courts so be wise and everything should be fine in the end.

Do keep us updated.



@ Alma, how do you settle such case out of court. I belief the complainant is the state
Doors of opportunity don't just open , they have to be unlocked & it's up to you to turn the knob.
premio
#60 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:13:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/31/2009
Posts: 226
this should have been settled before it got to the courts and the thieving clerk(if true) dealt with na jeshi ya mzee Gumo style but now u must challenge it in court. Have no fear because no case can succed without witnesses actualy it should never have made it to the police charge sheet. If the magistrate is good it should be dropped soon for lack of evidence unless ni defilement where the victim identifies the attacker and semen collected or pieces of clothing at scene
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