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LIFE UNDER ISLAMIC RULE?
AlphDoti
#41 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2012 12:45:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
alustaadh wrote:
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
OK over with the superficial stuff.
what do you think about this stuff? (it is a cut and copy job)

Shame on you Shame on you no no do not change the subject, answer my questions first before we go to other copy paste stuff... Remember what I said before:

Quote:
But if you cannot use your own understanding, and you cannot ask or answer something honesty without going to those sites, then it cannot be a good discussion.

You see if a person is genuine and learns something new, he will say, oh yes, I see this or I didn't know that.
But if that person is a liar, he'll say "what about this one, what about that one" and you end up going round is cycles.
alustaadh
#42 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2012 1:36:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
you are my teacher, remember? if I do not know something, I will not pretend....as for using my own understanding, the Zaburi says 'do not rely on the hand of flesh or your own understanding, but rely on the LORD' Pray
It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
alustaadh
#43 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2012 1:42:36 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
The question I wanted to ask is, Do Muslim preachers perform miracles, or is their religion a dead one, full of empty words?


But if you cannot use your own understanding, and you cannot ask or answer something honesty without going to those sites, then it cannot be a good discussion.

what? are you trying to limit my thinking capacity?


You see if a person is genuine and learns something new, he will say, oh yes, I see this or I didn't know that.
But if that person is a liar, he'll say "what about this one, what about that one" and you end up going round is cycles.



ohhh......common, that is not the KORAN OR THE BIBLE you are quoting....has your opinions become scripture?

COMMON....DO YOU HAVE THE POWER TO CHASE AWAY DEMONS?
It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
AlphDoti
#44 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2012 4:18:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
YesuWangu wrote:
Be that as it may, our God will not lord it over us that certain things do not befit him. The creator of the universe came to earth in a poor home...

@YesuWangu Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you

If Jesus was GOD:
Quote:

1. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

2. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

3. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?

4. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?

5. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

6. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of crucifixion? Also see: Jesus's crucifixion in Islam

7. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?

8. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

9. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?

10. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

11. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

12. If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

13. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?


YesuWangu wrote:
Therefore we can conclude that dictionary definition of blasphemy that you are qouting here is hogwash and irrelevant. Blasphemy is calling yourself God, the Christ/Messiah and saying you can forgive sins.

Do words have meaning in your language?
Now you're saying English dictionary definition is "hogwash"? There are many examples of blasphemy, one of them is what you quoted from Bible.

Quran 5:72-75
They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son Of Mary" But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! Worship God, my Lord And your Lord." Whoever Joins other gods with God,— God will forbid him The Garden, and the Fire Will be his abode. There will For the wrong-doers Be no one to help. (this is the God warning to you christians that you make Jesus a son of God)
tycho
#45 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2012 6:24:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
There is this Muslim mzee I met in the course of my spiritual journey. At that time I had come to full acceptance of the 'idea' that I was indeed, the son of God, and by extension I was the Man God.
,
So the mzee asked for my 'Christian' name. I gave it to him.

'You realize that Allah cannot reproduce like a Man?' He asked. The question took me by surprise. How could one consider God's sonship from that dimension?

'You must declare that Jesus was not and is not the son of God'.

But who was I? This mzee wanted me to surrender myself completely!

'Then you'll become fresh! Like a child!'

That's how I found my clutch straw.

'Whose child?' I asked.
alustaadh
#46 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2012 9:49:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
@ alpha, is Islam a mere talk shop, without the ability to protect its followers from evil spirits? who would want to follow such a religion?Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
tycho
#47 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2012 3:38:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
alustaadh wrote:
@ alpha, is Islam a mere talk shop, without the ability to protect its followers from evil spirits? who would want to follow such a religion?Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Casting evil spirits is something done in many cultures. If Muslims had an empire do you honestly believe that they had no way of 'casting evil spirits'?

Legio Maria, Akorino, and all indigenous religions have this 'facility' yet looking at them I realize that their claims are more of chest thumping and ostracizing 'misfits'.

But just recently, the camel broke it's back when I saw some 'evangelicals' trying to drive evil spirits from a girl and claiming that her kin were to be blamed for her woes.

I was left with the impression that it was the pastor who was injecting evil spirits into the girl.

But where there is light, there is a sound mind and power to heal through speech. And it doesn't have to be incantations, a simple conversation will always do.
essyk
#48 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2012 3:55:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
Casting out devils became very lucrative biz.
We even have the 'Ministry of deliverance' where people pay to have demons cast out.nkt.
Why have preachers turned demon hunters instead of flock hunters?
Preachers shouldn't go on devil hunting/gathering missions.Those leave as you go about serving God.
Lost calling.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Mukiri
#49 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2012 4:10:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
AlphDoti wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:
Be that as it may, our God will not lord it over us that certain things do not befit him. The creator of the universe came to earth in a poor home...

@YesuWangu Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you

If Jesus was GOD:
Quote:

1. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

2. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

3. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?

4. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?

5. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?

6. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of crucifixion? Also see: Jesus's crucifixion in Islam

7. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?

8. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

9. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?

10. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

11. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

12. If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

13. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?


YesuWangu wrote:
Therefore we can conclude that dictionary definition of blasphemy that you are qouting here is hogwash and irrelevant. Blasphemy is calling yourself God, the Christ/Messiah and saying you can forgive sins.

Do words have meaning in your language?
Now you're saying English dictionary definition is "hogwash"? There are many examples of blasphemy, one of them is what you quoted from Bible.

Quran 5:72-75
They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son Of Mary" But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! Worship God, my Lord And your Lord." Whoever Joins other gods with God,— God will forbid him The Garden, and the Fire Will be his abode. There will For the wrong-doers Be no one to help. (this is the God warning to you christians that you make Jesus a son of God)



So many words to ask a simple question with a simple answer. Jesus took the form of man (you and me). When on earth He was not God, but man (you and me). It is why He suffered, was tempted, went through all the motions, to set an example for us.. and more mercifully, to die for our sins, that we (you and me) may not have to die but find salvation.

Pray for the gift of the Holy Spirit, that you may get to understand, that you may get wisdom, for if you cannot create a brain cell in your own head.. then you might be an idiot to think you can use the same brain cells to comprehend. Yes, I said it!

Proverbs 19:21
YesuWangu
#50 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 11:49:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
tycho wrote:
alustaadh wrote:
@ alpha, is Islam a mere talk shop, without the ability to protect its followers from evil spirits? who would want to follow such a religion?Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Casting evil spirits is something done in many cultures. If Muslims had an empire do you honestly believe that they had no way of 'casting evil spirits'?

Legio Maria, Akorino, and all indigenous religions have this 'facility' yet looking at them I realize that their claims are more of chest thumping and ostracizing 'misfits'.

But just recently, the camel broke it's back when I saw some 'evangelicals' trying to drive evil spirits from a girl and claiming that her kin were to be blamed for her woes.

I was left with the impression that it was the pastor who was injecting evil spirits into the girl.

But where there is light, there is a sound mind and power to heal through speech. And it doesn't have to be incantations, a simple conversation will always do.


You are in too deep.

Have you considered an alternative view?
YesuWangu
#51 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 12:25:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
AlphDoti wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:
Be that as it may, our God will not lord it over us that certain things do not befit him. The creator of the universe came to earth in a poor home...

@YesuWangu Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you

If Jesus was GOD:
Quote:



8. If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

9. If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?






Alph Doti, those are nice questions. I hope you dont mind if I summarize my answer by picking on just a couple of verses.

You have made the best case, proving He is God by these two verses. I will tell you why there is folly in your post or shall I call it good tidings?

If you read further down that Isaiah 11, you will read about things you would have rather kept hidden.

Read about Him who after the spirit of the lord has rested on Him smites the earth with the rod of his mouth, whose breath of His lips slay the wicked after which the wolf dwells with the lamb and the lion eat straw like an ox and all sorts of nice things.

Read all about that and wonder how He cannot be God.
YesuWangu
#52 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 12:31:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
There is something there that if you were half keen you would have pointed out as a contradition.

But you are not keen.

In John 5:30 Jesus says '...as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me....'

That appears to contradict Isaiah 11:3 ' .... neither reprove after the hearing of his ears...'

This is what you were supposed to latch on and broadcast to the far reaches of the earth that the bible is contradicting itself.

But you did not, maybe because you have reproduced someones work here without reading it through carefully. Such missteps happen, dont worry, you are not the only one.

But before you ask about those apparent 'contradictions', let me grab the initiative and answer. So you dont have any high ground from which to launch your attacks.

The spirit of the lord shall rest upon him says Isaiah. That happened at his baptism, right?

Thereafter of Jesus's own He could do nothing, He says so Himself. The spirit has already rested on Him by now, remember, right?

Therefore, He, Jesus, is not judging after His own eyes, neither reproving after His own ears but now He, Jesus (after the spirit of the Lord has rested on him), judges in the will of His Father. Not his own.

Therefore, His judgment is just and He judges the poor with righteousness etc.

Thereafter, He will smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, then the wolf shall dwell with the lamb........Oh all those goodie goodies! Heaven!

Tell me again how He cannot be God using these same verses you have accusingly produced as exhibits?

Did you not get the memo that the bible is in complete harmony with itself?

Trying to play one verse against the other is desperate. And it pays to be keen. Please join me woiyee.
alustaadh
#53 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 5:42:41 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
YesuWangu wrote:
There is something there that if you were half keen you would have pointed out as a contradition.

But you are not keen.

In John 5:30 Jesus says '...as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me....'

That appears to contradict Isaiah 11:3 ' .... neither reprove after the hearing of his ears...'

This is what you were supposed to latch on and broadcast to the far reaches of the earth that the bible is contradicting itself.

But you did not, maybe because you have reproduced someones work here without reading it through carefully. Such missteps happen, dont worry, you are not the only one.

But before you ask about those apparent 'contradictions', let me grab the initiative and answer. So you dont have any high ground from which to launch your attacks.

The spirit of the lord shall rest upon him says Isaiah. That happened at his baptism, right?

Thereafter of Jesus's own He could do nothing, He says so Himself. The spirit has already rested on Him by now, remember, right?

Therefore, He, Jesus, is not judging after His own eyes, neither reproving after His own ears but now He, Jesus (after the spirit of the Lord has rested on him), judges in the will of His Father. Not his own.

Therefore, His judgment is just and He judges the poor with righteousness etc.

Thereafter, He will smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, then the wolf shall dwell with the lamb........Oh all those goodie goodies! Heaven!

Tell me again how He cannot be God using these same verses you have accusingly produced as exhibits?

Did you not get the memo that the bible is in complete harmony with itself?

Trying to play one verse against the other is desperate. And it pays to be keen. Please join me woiyee.


apostle John clearly said that any spirit that does not recognize that Jesus is the son of God who came in the flesh, died on the cross and resurrected from the dead isa spirit of the antichrist
It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
tycho
#54 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 7:02:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@YesuWangu, 'In too deep'. 'Alternatives'.

I choose to restrict myself to 'personal experience'. From beginning to now I have met several methods of casting away spirits, and when I look at them in retrospect I see a conversation taking place between me and others, including ancestors, God and I and that kind of thing. . . .Action is conversation. I don't know whether I am making any sense. There's always a word for everything and everything is a conversation.
AlphDoti
#55 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 8:06:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
alustaadh wrote:
apostle John clearly said that any spirit that does not recognize that Jesus is the son of God who came in the flesh, died on the cross and resurrected from the dead isa spirit of the antichrist

You have not quoted the verse correctly. Look for the verse and please says the real words without adding your own.

But it is something close to that
I'm glad to tell you that a Muslim knows about Jesus.

He's mentioned in the Quran many times.
For Example:
"We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit" (Quran 2:87)
"O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary..." (Quran 3:45)
"...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was an apostle of god..." (Quran 4:171)
"...And in their foot steps we sent Jesus the son of Mary..." (Quran 5:46)
"And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous." (Quran 6:85)

He is given Titles too
Besides being mentioned by name in many places in the Quran, he is also addressed with respect as:
- Ibn Maryam, meaning "The son of Mary";
- and as the Maseeh (in Hebrew it is the Messiah), which is translated as "Christ".
- He is also known as Abdullah, "The servant of Allah";
- and as Rasul u Allah, the messenger of Allah.

Other titles
- He is spoken of as "The Word of God",
- as "The Spirit of God",
- as a "Sign of God",
- and numerous other titles of honour over many different chapters

So do you believe now that prophet Muhammad (pbuh) loved Jesus (pbuh) and taught people about Jesus (pbuh)?
He did not mentioned his mother, he did not mention his wives, but he mentioned Mary mother of Jesus (pbuh)!!!
scout_boy
#56 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 11:59:11 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/16/2011
Posts: 59
Alpha,

You did not look into the matters I had raised earlier.





Quote:

Do you know the author of Hebrew? This should make you thinking.


There is no need to actually no the author of any text as long its practical and makes sense.
A case in point are the methali's we quote.We as a society cannot identify the particular mhenga who came up with a certain .

Many quotes we use have anonymous authors.
Many authors including J.K Rowling engage the use of ghost writers.In addition their work is heavily edited by the publishers.But we dont complain because at the end of the day its the quality of the message/text.
Quote:



Anyone who says, not my will but God will is a MuslimMuslim means the one submits his will to the will of God.Jesus Christ says, not my will but God's will.


This is yet another contradictory statement.No individual can do the will of another unless they have the same consciousness.We as human beings are self aware meaning we have our own will.
Quote:

Bearing in mind all the information I gave in previous post, there is no independent source of information about Paul.


Any person claiming that the Romans were in cahoots with the supposed writers of the new testament to meet some ends ,has not read the history of the roman empire.
1.The romans were least bothered by the religions followed by their colonies.King Herod under the authority of Caeser had the temple rebuilt.
2.The romans persecuted the early church ,starting from Emperor Nero.If they had a working relationship why go against them?

Quote:

Acts 11:25-26
- Paul was being looked for.
- They went to Antiokia
- And came up together
- Pagans called them those Christians



The action we take as human beings are driven by motives.What was Paul's motive ,personal gain?if its unclear as you suggest,then you have simply lost the case.
There is no motive,no specific timeline,no independent witnesses and lastly no tangible evidence.

The question can God be Man?I emphatically say ,yes.Can man become one with God?Another emphatic yes.
1.- Maasais have a name for God
- Kalenjins have a name for God
- Kikuyus have a name for God
- Luhyias have a name for God
- Luos have a name for God


All these communities have one thing in common,the worship of ancestors along with another deity.


2.There are many rulers and personalities who have called themselves god.Pharoah's ,Caeser's ,Tycho of this forum.Hundreds of millions of bhudhists think one day they will reach nirvana and become gods.



alustaadh
#57 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:44:03 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
http://mukto-mona.net/Articles/kasem/quran_origin.htm
It is an absolute fact that Muhammad was born of pagan parents. His father, Abdullah and his mother, Amina were both pagans and they used to worship many idols. His entire childhood (probably up to his teen) was spent in paganism. To day, many Muslims will find it extremely hard to digest this fact. However, Muhammad’s pagan origin is disclosed by Hisham ibn al-Kalbi. On page 17 of his important work, Kitab al-Asnam (The Book of Idols) he writes (Hisham al-Kalbi, Kitab al-Asnam, p.17):



‘We have been told that the Apostle of God once mentioned al-Uzza saying, “I have offered a white sheep to al-‘Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people.” ‘



In the statement above Muhammad clearly admits his past adherence to paganism—the then religion of the Quraysh.



Initially, Muhammad even eulogized the important gods (or idols) of the pagans by agreeing with the Quraysh—at some point that these gods were the intercessors of Allah. On the same page Hisham ibn al-Kalbi writes:



The Quraysh were wont to circumambulate the Ka’bah and say:



By Allat and al-‘Uzza,

And Manah, the third idol besides.

Verily they are the most exalted females

Whose intercession is to be sought.



These were also called “the Daughters of Allah,” and were supposed to intercede before God. When the Apostle of God was sent god revealed unto him [concerning them] the following:



053.019 Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
053.020 And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

053.021 What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
053.022 Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

053.023 These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! (Hisham ibn al-Kalbi, ‘Kitab al-Asnam,’ p.17)



When Muhammad became an adult and started to attend the annual assembly of poets at Ukaz he was deeply impressed and moved by the thoughts, eloquence, sentiment, freethinking and humanism expounded by many of those poets. He started questioning the idol-worshipping and began to start preaching a new concept of one God, the creator—similar to the concepts of the Jews and the Christians of that time. Nonetheless, he was confused as to which God ought to be his God. Allah, a deity (a moon god--that is why the symbols placed at every mosque is a crescent moon) at that time, was the supreme God of the pagans. Their only fault was that besides Allah, they used to worship as the intercessors for Allah, the supreme other smaller gods/goddesses like: Hubal, Al-lat, Al-Uzza, Manat…etc. So, in the beginning of his new concept of an almighty creator Allah was out of his mind. Besides, at that time the magicians, the soothsayers, the sorcerers, and even the Satan worshippers used to vow by Allah. Thus, Muhammad found it utterly despicable to make Allah his God (ilah).



During those pagan days the people of Yemen used to worship another deity whose name was Ar-Rahman. Muhammad, for a while, adopted the name Ar-Rahman for God in place of Allah. Coincidentally, Ar-Rahman was also the Jewish word Rahmana which was a name for God in the Talmudic period (Noldeke: The Koran, The Origins of the Koran, p.53). Muhammad cleverly thought that by using the word Ar-Rahman he ought to be able to attract to his new ‘religion’, the Jews as well as some pagans.



However, when he declared himself to be the messenger of Ar-Rahman, the Meccans, too, were at a loss and confused. The Meccans did not know of any Ar-Rahman other than the Ar-Rahman of al-Yamamah (some writers say Ar-Rahman was at Yemen). To verify Muhammad’s claim the Quraysh sent a delegation to Medina Jews, as they thought that Ar-Rahman, truly, was a deity in Yemen or Yamamah. Islamic Historian Ibn Sa’d (Ibn Sa’d, vol.i, pp.189-190) writes:



“The Quraysh sent al-Nadr Ibn al-Harith Ibn ‘Alaqamah and ‘Uqbah Ibn abi Mu’ayt and others to the Jews of Yathrib and told them to ask them (Jews) about Muhammad. They came to Medinah and said to them (Jews): We have come to you because a great affair has taken place amidst us. There is a humble orphan who makes a big claim, considering himself to be the messenger of al-Rahman, while we do not know any al-Rahman except the Rahman of al-Yamamah. They said: Give the description before us. They gave his description, on which they asked them who were his followers. They said: The lowly people among us. Thereupon a scholar of from them laughed and said: he is the Prophet whose attributes we find mentioned in our Scriptures; we also know that his people will be most inimical to him.”



When we read, with an unbiased mind, the first 50 Suras (in chronological order) of the Qur’an we note Muhammad’s confusion regrading Lord, Allah and Ar-Rahman. He was quite unsure of whom he should consider as his God (ilah). Here is a summary of the first 50 Suras regarding Muhammad’s idea of his God:



Only Lord—68, 92, 89, 94, 100, 108, 105, 114, 97, 106, 75 (11 Suras)

Ar-Rahman, Lord—55, 36 (2 Suras)

Ar-Rahman, Allah, Lord—20

Allah, Lord—96, 73, 74, 81, 87, 53, 85, 50, 38, 7, 72, 25, 35, 56, 26, 27, 28, 17 (18 Suras)



This demonstrates Muhammad’s initial vacillation, confusion and ignorance of the affairs of his God (ilah).



The Qur’an also confirms that when he started to preach his brand of faith Muhammad was lost, confused and did not know much of religion. Here is what the Qur’an writes:



Muhammad was lost, then Allah guided him 93:7

093.007 And He found thee wandering, and He gave thee guidance.



In the past Muhammad was heedless 12:3, 42:52

012.003 We do relate unto thee the most beautiful of stories, in that We reveal to thee this (portion of the) Qur'an: before this, thou too was among those who knew it not.
042.052 And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,-



So, how did Muhammad learn the basics of his new religion? Enter Imrul Qais and Zayd Ibn Amr.

It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
King G
#58 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:50:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
smile Sad ?
Thieves
majimaji
#59 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:02:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

What are you really saying???
tycho
#60 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:21:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
majimaji wrote:

What are you really saying???


He is saying that Mohammed was a mythologist and is now inviting us into mythology.
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