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Bob :'Safaricom a bigger, & more trusted, brand than the church'
Rank: Hello Joined: 5/29/2012 Posts: 2
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It's not strange that we have people who were brought up believing in God opting to turn away from theism to embrace atheism. Everyone is allowed to have their own worldview in life but when someone embraces atheism and vehemently denies the existence of God, there is much need to worry because saying "There is no God" is an illogical position. Why?
Has the atheist investigated every claim for the existence of God and refuted it soundly?
Has the atheist investigated every scientific evidence for the existence of God and disproved it?
Has the atheist travelled all over the world, and into outer space, transcended every galaxy to prove that there is no God?
Has the atheist considered all the scientific evidence showing that the universe had a one-time beginning and that every thing that began to exist must have a beginner?
The answer to all these, if there is an atheist out there, is a definite "NO".
So how then can someone boldly declare that "There is no God" when obviously he doesn't have any evidence to refute the existence of God. It is illogical to imagine that this fine-tuned orderly universe came about due to the random assemblage of molecules by accident, and worse still, to believe that the universe came out of nothing. If there is no God, then why do we have something (the universe) instead of nothing?
Either, everything created itself or something created everything.
You do not need a PhD in molecular biology to know which is the most logical conclusion of the two premises because nothing produces nothing. Nothing is exactly that - No thing! We all know that a plant must grow out of a seed, a tuber, a cutting or whatever it is. We all know that a human must come out of a sperm and an ovum fused together, so why should we believe that the universe came out of nothing?
In my interaction with atheists I have realized that they claim not to have faith yet they fearlessly believe that the universe came out of nothing, with no evidence to back them up. There is no evidence to show how life can come out of non-life (read evolution) and such a position must be held entirely on the basis of faith. Remember, faith is believing something to be true even if you don't have all the information about it. so atheists cannot disprove the existence of God - they only try to do it by faith. They have faith that atheism is true, thus defeating logic and the objectivity of science.
People who deny the existence of God do so because they want to live a free life without any rules and do as they like because without God, no one will hold you accountable.
Why should an atheist have an inherent desire to do good to others? And why is this desire shared by the whole human race? Where did he get this desire if there is no moral law? Every law must have a lawgiver and if there is a moral law, there must be a lawgiver.
Denying God's existence is like walking a tight rope and the stakes are very high. And in light of historical philosophical and scientific evidence for the existence of God, one can't help but ask himself: Who needs more faith, the atheist or the theist?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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chavz your post is too long LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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panomaz wrote:
To all you atheist!!! Matthew 16:26 "What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"
Well, the bible also says to murder everybody that works on the Sabbath day..So I guess we should hack everyone that works on Saturday/Sunday to death if we are to follow what the bible says. I don't believe in your bible. Here is what it says about working on the Sabbbath day. The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) What a loving God, always threating murder at every chance he gets.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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martcentre wrote:If you believe that there is devil, then God also exists. the reason why i believe the devil is there is because he is more visible on earth with his evil deeds. How would you explain Vudu, Black Magic, Charm or whatever name you want to call it. and don't tell me it does not exist we all know uchawi exists. And when i talk of black magic am not referring to those jobless Kenyans who have discovered an opportunity to exploit Kenyans by pretending to be Witch doctors. Am talking about the real ones who make men and women of integrity eat grass like goats and those make stolen TV's get stuck on peoples backs.. ref to 2008 PEV in Mombasa.
To me this explains that there is some power beyond what we can see. Witch doctors use the powers of the evil one 'Devil'. and if devil exists then God too is there to protect you and me from the evil one. --------------------------------------------------
Dude, get real, it's 2012 and you are still talking about black magic? Stop being so gullible my friend. I am not a prude, but I just can't justify your post with an answer. C'mon man, black magic? Really? I would like to encourage you to open up your mind and quit being so naive....You would be surprised what an objective mind can do for you, stop believing in uchawi for starters, get real.
The biggest mistake that atheists make it to blame God for the Mistakes of Human Beings, Human Beings brought Aids unto themselves, Tobacco Companies are selling cancer by stick and beer companies are selling diabetes by bottle. --------------------------------------------------
Did you just blame cancer on cigarette companies and diabetes on beer companies? Unbelievable.
Take time to understand God and what he represents. and you will find true peace.
[b]I Have true peace, I am so much at peace with my life than I have ever been. I even try to make other people's life better with some of the humble philanthropic work that I do for underprivileged kids, so that they too can achieve some degree of peace in their life. Am more at peace now than I ever did when I was religious. So please, stop assuminng that just because one does not believe in your god, they do not have peace in their lives. That's a fallacy that your religions scare you with so as to tighten that noose around your neck. --------------------------------------------------
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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[quote=scout_boy] @hamburglar, Quote:That's why I say, getting out of the shackles of religion gives one a better vision of the reality . That is not necessary true, Mao and Stalin got out of "these shackles" and ended up leading to the death of at least 100 million innocent lives. Mao and Stalin killed because of ideological disagreement, they did not kill because of atheism, they were motivated by communism. Thus, to lay these crimes at the foot of atheism is simply incorrectGod and religion are two different things and might not be directly related as you may think. Religions worship God, I don't see how religion and God can be mutually exclusive. Religion as you have said is a cultural meme.We as subsaharan Africans together with the Norwegians might worship the same God but end up in different religions because of the cultural differences. Only difference is that religion in these industrialized countries such as Norway is almost becoming extinct, and that to some degree explains why these western countries have better living standards than subsaharan Africans. They are choosing to employ logic instead of faith to solve their problems and it's working for them. Quote:Mmarto, thanks for being civil, but I don't need to pray to have faith, I would rather use logic than faith any day. Never rely too much on logic.Not all decisions you will make in this life will be logical.There is a certain species on this earth who along with logic use intuition.You know them. I beg to differ, always rely on logic. Logic teaches you to use your brain, to ask questions, to seek answers, faith teaches you to believe with no questions asked. That's why pastors and priests are fleecing people unabated because theists have been told not to use logic, to rely on faith and ask no questions. Always ask questions, always...
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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[quote=martcentre]If you believe that there is devil, then God also exists. the reason why i believe the devil is there is because he is more visible on earth with his evil deeds. How would you explain Vudu, Black Magic, Charm or whatever name you want to call it. and don't tell me it does not exist we all know uchawi exists. And when i talk of black magic am not referring to those jobless Kenyans who have discovered an opportunity to exploit Kenyans by pretending to be Witch doctors. Am talking about the real ones who make men and women of integrity eat grass like goats and those make stolen TV's get stuck on peoples backs.. ref to 2008 PEV in Mombasa.
To me this explains that there is some power beyond what we can see. Witch doctors use the powers of the evil one 'Devil'. and if devil exists then God too is there to protect you and me from the evil one.
Dude, get real, it's 2012 and you are still talking about black magic? Stop being so gullible my friend. I am not a prude, but I just can't justify your post with an answer. C'mon man, black magic? Really? I would like to encourage you to open up your mind and quit being so naive....You would be surprised what an objective mind can do for you, stop believing in uchawi for starters, get real. Your kind are the ones who are going around the country labeling people wachawi and lynching them due your misguided beliefs.
The biggest mistake that atheists make it to blame God for the Mistakes of Human Beings, Human Beings brought Aids unto themselves, Tobacco Companies are selling cancer by stick and beer companies are selling diabetes by bottle. We all know that but we will still blame God when we finally get lung cancel. We have tampered with and polluted the environment so much that we are to blame for all our problems, If a pastor decides to steal from the congregation that is not God, that is a human being stealing from another human being, if a Father decides to sodomize young boys, those are individual deeds that will be judged individually. Sin in Church has not started today, even when Jesus was around he would find men of God gambling in the house of the Lord. That did not make God a gambler.
Did you just blame cancer on cigarette companies and diabetes on beer companies? Unbelievable.
From time immemorial human being has always been spiritual and they have always believed in some form of higher power. our great great grand fathers worshiped facing mount Kenya, others worshiped their cows, while their counterparts in India had their idols. How would you explain the fact that Africans believed is some higher power even before they knew the Asians existed or got influences by Europeans with their Christianity.
There is a difference between religion and Spirituality. All the churches that are fighting each other and stealing from the congregation are not mentioned anywhere in the bible. God is interested in your souls not your church. There is a possibility that most of them do not represent God or his interests. but that does not mean God does not exist.
Take time to understand God and what he represents. and you will find true peace
Find true peace? What exactly does that mean? I am so much at peace with my life than I have ever been. I even try to make other people's life better with some of the humble philanthropic work that I do for underprivileged kids, so that they too can achieve some degree of peace in their life. Am more at peace now than I ever did when I was religious. So please, stop assuminng that just because one does not believe in your god, they do not have peace in their lives. That's a fallacy that your religions scare you with so as to tighten that noose around your neck.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:panomaz wrote:
To all you atheist!!! Matthew 16:26 "What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"
Good one! @Humburger, countries that have gained the whole world(the earthly riches, what is seen) tend to lose their soul(what is not seen), their essence, meaning the Africans you call poor(by sight, what your physical eyes show/tell u) are actually the richest. Countries with a poor soul(what can't be seen), your essence, have the highest suicide rates! http://en.wikipedia.org/...untries_by_suicide_rate
Hey, what's the point of praying and worshipping and having this mythical soul you are talking about, while these same Africans that have this "soul" are starving to death by the dozens. No thanks, I prefer to keep my earthly riches and Africans can keep thier souls and their poverty.
I don't get the correlation of suicide to atheism because everybody from every walk of life including theists commit suicide so your point is not very relevant to the subject.
Going by your reasoning, I can also say that countries with the richest soul have the highest genocide rates. But that wouldn't be relevant either. @Humburger, is your soul, your essence at rest/peace? I hope so!
Dude, I am at peace...Always have and I always will, you know why? because I conciously keep myself at peace. I have theists who are in a state of turmoil, praying for god to answer their prayers for things in theri lives, complaining everyday how hard life is. Unlike them, I don't depend on God and that's why I am at peace. Plus you are getting it twisted, you don't have to be religious for you to be a good person. That's hogwash.
You people keep praying to god and he never delivers and then find yourselves in more turmoil because instead of using reason to find solutions in your life, you depend on a god that is more interested in sending people to hell to burn in eternal fire or whatever that crap you believe in is than he is helping his children who are suffering. Maybe you should ask him what his priorities are...Keep praying for help from this god, you will be waiting for a long long time for those prayers to be answered.
In the meantime, some of us understand that we need to use our brains and resources to get solutions to our questions...And as far as am concerned, this system has worked very successfully for me.@Muganda, good points you have raised!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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No sooner had the digital ink about the West and cannibalism dried than Eugene,31,from Miami ate his friend for dinner, literally. Just as i explained before,to me these are after-effects of capitalism without a soul. http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...orld-us-canada-18241494
 Click here to see the horrific pictures of the victim.WARNING-GRAPHIC http://blogs.villagevoic...2/05/miami_cannibal.php
This other man in New Jersey stabbed himself and threw his won intestines to the cops a few days ago http://blogs.villagevoic...05/new_jersey_man_2.php
See the gory pictures here-WARNING-GRAPHIC http://www.barstoolsport...nes-at-police-officers/
mmarto wrote:@ a4architect.com "True..rich countries e.g USA,Australia,Northern Europe usually have very most of these bizzare cases e.g cannibalism.."
I trust that you are not one of those who pick an incident and extrapolate it to all. Cannibalism is a practise in places like papua new guinea, jungles of the amazon and, yes in very few african tribal communities eons ago. Why pick and brand africans as cannibalis when the west is so full of worse evils. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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@hambugler Kindly read through this post by @ chavs and respond to it. chavz wrote:It's not strange that we have people who were brought up believing in God opting to turn away from theism to embrace atheism. Everyone is allowed to have their own worldview in life but when someone embraces atheism and vehemently denies the existence of God, there is much need to worry because saying "There is no God" is an illogical position. Why?
Has the atheist investigated every claim for the existence of God and refuted it soundly?
Has the atheist investigated every scientific evidence for the existence of God and disproved it?
Has the atheist travelled all over the world, and into outer space, transcended every galaxy to prove that there is no God?
Has the atheist considered all the scientific evidence showing that the universe had a one-time beginning and that every thing that began to exist must have a beginner?
The answer to all these, if there is an atheist out there, is a definite "NO".
So how then can someone boldly declare that "There is no God" when obviously he doesn't have any evidence to refute the existence of God. It is illogical to imagine that this fine-tuned orderly universe came about due to the random assemblage of molecules by accident, and worse still, to believe that the universe came out of nothing. If there is no God, then why do we have something (the universe) instead of nothing?
Either, everything created itself or something created everything.
You do not need a PhD in molecular biology to know which is the most logical conclusion of the two premises because nothing produces nothing. Nothing is exactly that - No thing! We all know that a plant must grow out of a seed, a tuber, a cutting or whatever it is. We all know that a human must come out of a sperm and an ovum fused together, so why should we believe that the universe came out of nothing?
In my interaction with atheists I have realized that they claim not to have faith yet they fearlessly believe that the universe came out of nothing, with no evidence to back them up. There is no evidence to show how life can come out of non-life (read evolution) and such a position must be held entirely on the basis of faith. Remember, faith is believing something to be true even if you don't have all the information about it. so atheists cannot disprove the existence of God - they only try to do it by faith. They have faith that atheism is true, thus defeating logic and the objectivity of science.
People who deny the existence of God do so because they want to live a free life without any rules and do as they like because without God, no one will hold you accountable.
Why should an atheist have an inherent desire to do good to others? And why is this desire shared by the whole human race? Where did he get this desire if there is no moral law? Every law must have a lawgiver and if there is a moral law, there must be a lawgiver.
Denying God's existence is like walking a tight rope and the stakes are very high. And in light of historical philosophical and scientific evidence for the existence of God, one can't help but ask himself: Who needs more faith, the atheist or the theist?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/24/2011 Posts: 833
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[quote=selah]Apparently Bob collymore decided to take on the church by saying safaricom is bigger& more trusted than the church..which church is he referring to..because to my understanding the church is the body of Christ.... http://conversations.nok...E2%80%99s-mobile-magic/[/quote] if its the kenyan churches that give miracles for a fee, he s right
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/7/2010 Posts: 520 Location: Epicentre - Ngamia 1
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@hamburglar Click HERE to get some answers. Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs - Farrah Gray.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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There is one thing people keep confusing, God and church, I beleive in a supernatural being which I am comfortable calling him God but I don't believe in the institute of Church infact I think church might not be preaching the real God, so lets not confuse that. I haven't been to church for 15 yrs but I have a constant touch with my God. Fundamentally if I am to follow the Bible the summary of everything in that book is-do to other what you'd want to be done to- Thats is the only line I am keeping and I always try to follow everything else in that book is blurry!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2010 Posts: 906 Location: Nairobi
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Sometimes I wish that we could all go the route of the Greeks and Norwegians, who accepted their ancient writings about gods like Zeus, Hades, Thor etc. as fiction, but still maintained them as a respectable field of study.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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Forester wrote:@hamburglar Click HERE to get some answers. Why does it appear that the theory of evolution and the Genesis account of creation are at odds? Simple genealogical math gives us a total of less than 6,000 years since God created Adam and Eve as described in Genesis, yet Science tells us the fossil records go back 3.6 billion years? How can we reconcile this paradox? See History: Life Evolves and Early Man Before Adam.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Kindly read through this post by @ chavs and respond to it. Tha's easy for me to do.. chavz wrote:It's not strange that we have people who were brought up believing in God opting to turn away from theism to embrace atheism. Everyone is allowed to have their own worldview in life but when someone embraces atheism and vehemently denies the existence of God, there is much need to worry because saying "There is no God" is an illogical position. Why?
Has the atheist investigated every claim for the existence of God and refuted it soundly?
Has the atheist investigated every scientific evidence for the existence of God and disproved it?
Has the atheist travelled all over the world, and into outer space, transcended every galaxy to prove that there is no God?
Has the atheist considered all the scientific evidence showing that the universe had a one-time beginning and that every thing that began to exist must have a beginner?
I don't need to prove that God doesn't exist, you can't prove something that is not there... The burden of proof always lies with whoever is making a positive existential claim - in this case, the theist.
The answer to all these, if there is an atheist out there, is a definite "NO".
So how then can someone boldly declare that "There is no God" when obviously he doesn't have any evidence to refute the existence of God.
Again, you show us the evidence and we will believe you. Has anybody ever seen this god or you just believe that he exists?
It is illogical to imagine that this fine-tuned orderly universe came about due to the random assemblage of molecules by accident, and worse still, to believe that the universe came out of nothing. If there is no God, then why do we have something (the universe) instead of nothing?
Either, everything created itself or something created everything.
This universe is far from fine tuned and orderly...I am not sure if you watch the news...
You do not need a PhD in molecular biology to know which is the most logical conclusion of the two premises because nothing produces nothing. Nothing is exactly that - No thing! We all know that a plant must grow out of a seed, a tuber, a cutting or whatever it is. We all know that a human must come out of a sperm and an ovum fused together, so why should we believe that the universe came out of nothing?
And how do you know that this imaginary god created the universe? Did you actually witness him creating the world in the six days you theists claim it took him to create it?
In my interaction with atheists I have realized that they claim not to have faith yet they fearlessly believe that the universe came out of nothing, with no evidence to back them up. There is no evidence to show how life can come out of non-life (read evolution) and such a position must be held entirely on the basis of faith.
Atheists use logic and reason, we don't use faith, we use our brains to understand what is around us.
People who deny the existence of God do so because they want to live a free life without any rules and do as they like because without God, no one will hold you accountable.
This statement is a bald-face lie...By not believing in a god does not mean that we lack morals...Atheists do right because it's the right thing to do, not because we are afraid that somebody is watching us and holding us accountable..You should try to live your life the right way because that is what's right, don't do right by your brother in hopes that thsi so called god is keeping tabs and will grant you access into this imaginary heaven when you die...In this world, atheists just go on their business without expecting anything in return, unlike theists who live by the quid pro quo philosophy...We are not kids to understand that a moral life if the right way to live, you don't need anybody to hold you accountable, if you are a personof integrity, you hold yourself accountable for what you do in this world. C'mon man.
Why should an atheist have an inherent desire to do good to others?
Because it's common sense...You don't need to be told by a god to do good to others...
And why is this desire shared by the whole human race?
This desire is not shared by the whole human race...If that were the case, the world would be a perfect place to live...Atheists believe in living and let live, theists are killing each other everyday in the name of god, allah or whatever other deity there is. If the desire to just do good to your neighbor regardless of religious background was to be emraced by theists, this world would be much much much more peaceful. Atheists don't care which religion you belong to, to us, everybody belongs to the human religion and that's why you don't hear atheist suicide bombers or atheists persecuting protestants or atheists molesting kids etc..
Where did he get this desire if there is no moral law? Every law must have a lawgiver and if there is a moral law, there must be a lawgiver.
Dude, you need to re-evaluate your stance on morality...You don't need to have a lawgiver or moral police to tell you what to do....
Denying God's existence is like walking a tight rope and the stakes are very high.
Why are the stakes high? Because your god will send us to perish in eternal fire in hell? what hogwash...And even if hell really existed, how evil can your god be to send people there...Hell is an imaginary place created by man to spread fear for their own selfish gains....There is no hell, stop living in fear, life is too short to be scared stiff like you are..
And in light of historical philosophical and scientific evidence for the existence of God, one can't help but ask himself: Who needs more faith, the atheist or the theist?
Atheists don't need faith, we navigate through life using logic and reason...We don't wait for a god to bail us out of situations, if we are faced with a situation and need a solution, we think it through. Theists wait for god to help them..Reason why I call them weak minded. The god that you are waiting for never comes through for you guys, otherwise we would have a cure for cancer and AIDS by now judging by how often you guys pray....Which brings me to my next statement...If god already knows what you need, then why are you still praying and asking for it? Why can't he just make it available for you...If you have cancer and he can see that you are suffering, why doesn't he just heal you? Why isn't he stopping kids from dying in Africa every minutes? I guess he is too busy sending people to hell to burn in eternal fire that he is missing out on what's important...I don't know what his priorities are, sending people to hell and having people thank him everyday and praying (kissing hiss ass) everyday or ending the suffering in this world....If it were me, if I was this god that can do everything, I would make this a perfect world and if anybody decided they did not want to believe in me, I would respect their decision and worry about more important things than vengeance and sending people to hell.
[/quote] It's an inherently futile debate, really. This is because the theist, in contrast to the atheist, does not require proof, but rather faith which is, by it's definition, a belief in something for which proof cannot be supplied.
Thus, there is little proof that the theist would accept and there is little faith that the atheist would accept.
You can replace the word "God" in the above example with ANYTHING you want (pixies, unicorns, chupacabra, leprechauns, superheroes, etc.), which might help you understand where I'm coming from when I say the burden of proof - is on the believer.
What will it take to change my mind about being an atheist? If you are going to ask this, please first ask YOURSELF what it would take to change your mind. If your answer is NOTHING, then consider that other religious folks (Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc; ) will also answer that way. Why are they just as sure of their beliefs as you are? Most of the time it is because of how they were raised and what society they grew up in. 95+% of folks in Saudi Arabia are Muslim ((They actually state 100%)), nearly 95+% of Thais are Buddhist. Your beliefs have nothing to do with truth, but instead are almost entirely dependent on societal influences (your parents' beliefs, society's majority belief).
Nothing fazes me, I don't belive in any of your gods and I live a full life devoid of any fears..Your gods are silly, religions cannot even agree on a single god to worship. Tht's why I say religious people are weak minded and tend to be poorer than non-religious people, because unlike us atheists, religious people are waiting for god's blessing while they continue toiling in poverty...Honestly, I think this god of yours needs to learn conflict management or at least take anger management classes...Whenever he doesn't get his way he throws a temper tantrum by burning cities (Soddom and Gomorrha (sic)) or by drowning people (Noah)....Honestly, how does that resolve anything? how does killing people make it right? This god is responsible for a lot of ills...from telling Abraham to kill his son in sacrifice to sending his only child to die a painful death on the cross, what excatly was he trying to achieve by that other than more bloodshed....It's 2012, we have advanced past the days of beliving that a snake actually talked and told somebody to eat an apple....C'mon man, really????Samson had strength in his hair and lost all the strength after his hair was cut? really, lol, some of these stories are unbelievably inane but once again, only weak minded people believe them.....
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/20/2010 Posts: 412 Location: nairobi
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@hamburglar Your gods are silly, religions cannot even agree on a single god to worship. Tht's why I say religious people are weak minded and tend to be pooreruote than non-religious people, because unlike us atheists, religious people are waiting for god's blessing while they continue toiling in poverty... Do you know that Jews are a very religious society. And do you know that they are the richest community in the world. The two richest men in singapore are strong believers etc, etc. So you need to have your facts right. If you call your God silly, may he be gracious to you. He is slow to anger and abounding in love and wants to draw men to Himself. From the manner you put your arguments i can only quote to you 1 Corinthians 2:14 "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." The only time you should be looking down on others is when you are helping them up.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/13/2011 Posts: 284 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:panomaz wrote:
To all you atheist!!! Matthew 16:26 "What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"
Well, the bible also says to murder everybody that works on the Sabbath day..So I guess we should hack everyone that works on Saturday/Sunday to death if we are to follow what the bible says. I don't believe in your bible. Here is what it says about working on the Sabbbath day. The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) What a loving God, always threating murder at every chance he gets. dude/ chic; Who/ What do u believe in????
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Do you know that Jews are a very religious society. And do you know that they are the richest community in the world. The two richest men in singapore are strong believers etc, etc. So you need to have your facts right.
If you call your God silly, may he be gracious to you. He is slow to anger and abounding in love and wants to draw men to Himself.
Slow to anger????This god of yours must really have anger issues...Why is he always getting angry? There is no reason ever to get angry unless you are weak. If he is abounding in love, then maybe it's time he started loving the kids that are dying in Somalia. I might be a better person than your god because I know how to control my temper, I never get angry, your god might need to work on his temper.... And yes, I know the Jews are the richest people on earth, but they were born into money so that's not news...The point is, you can continue waiting for your god to "bless" you with success and "to open" doors for you, I on the other hand will do it by myself, I don't need a god to help me because he does not exist.
From the manner you put your arguments i can only quote to you
1 Corinthians 2:14
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."[/quote]
[b]Good for you that you have a spirit, I prefer to use my brain to navigate through life and my brain tells me that believing in a god is absurd...Look, I have seen people do stupid stuff while waiting on this god to bail them out. A friend of mine lost his job and threw his whole life to god and literally spent everyday in church instead of looking for a new gig and guess what? He ended up homeless after his house was foreclosed on by the bank..All the people in his church acted like they didn't know him when he called them for help....I paid for his down payment and first month rent because I understood his situation...I told him to keep it between us as I din't think it was anybody's business to know who saved him....I have always had a helping heart, and I have been smart enough to make money in my life and I know what really matters in life....The pastors from this guy's church acted like they forgot him and yet they are the first ones to send mass emails everyday inviting people to their curch and quoting useless scriptures while they can't even help one of their own...I stand on the sidelines and watch all the shit that these so called people of god do and it's sad. Scandals galore...A prominent Kenyan pastor in my city was caught having an affair, and yet he is the one who prays at every function acting like he is filled with this spirit that you are talking about and yet he is slyly eyeing the girls at the function...Useless people if you ask me....As for my friend, where was this god when he needed him????
Another person was flying to Kenya and did not have enough money for extra luggage. I was supposed to give her a ride to the airport and asked her repeatedly how she intended to sort the financial issue out...She told me that she had faith that God will help her....So I shook my head and decided to see what will happen the next day when I took her to the airport..I had a feeling she was going to run into trouble so instead of just dropping her off and leaving the airport, I parked my car and went to the check in counter with her...Lo and behold, she did not have money to bring her extra baggage....I shook my head, took out my wallet and paid $150 for the extra luggage and just understood that theists are weak minded and that is why they find themselves in compromising situations because instead of using reason and logic, they depend on faith from a non-existent god to help them out....But oh well, like I said, to each their own....I will continue to do good by my neighbor, I will continue to pay school fees for underpriviledged kids for as much as I can, and I will do my best to build a homeless shelter in Athi river, but unlike you, I am not doing it to please a god, I am doing it coz it's the right thing to do....If your god needs to be pleased then he has another thing coming...What an egomaniac god he is.
And to Mmarto, since we are quoting bible scriptures, I will leave you with a few scriptures from your loving god for you to ponder.
1) Capital Punishment Crimes:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/29/2008 Posts: 571
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ROLLOUT:If you haven't been to church in 15yrs and you don't believe in the bible,then the supernatural being you believe in is not God,but the devil and your religion is illuminati....
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Hamburglar you are confusing God and religion. Most of your rants are against religion which is manmade, and I do agree there is alot of fakeness in the Church. But God is real. I have noticed that most atheists are usually well educated and well to do people living in the diaspora. I wonder if you would hold these same views if you were struggling in a slum with 5 children and no food on the table? Affluence has a way of making one feel invincible and you thus start challenging everything. Be careful not to measure your self worth by how much you have coz its all an illusion, at any moment the carpet can be pulled from underneath you.
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