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Tragedy of Flight KQ507
Spend.thrift
#21 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:35:41 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 302
Ric dees wrote:

..Sad state of events if the report is anything to go by, however i will not put blinders to ignore the obvious the blame lies in KQ not boeing in my opinion. I will not draw views from people in the industry, there is tendancy to same views.

However i got a view from a consultant in boeing a Kenyan mwindi and he told me Boeing for the longest time have been fed up with KQ when it comes to dealing with simple procedures regarding fixing problems etc..KQ simply tend to ignore, while this may be the small faults here and there however the fact cannot be lost KQ is known to cut corners.

I will not go into specifics but clearly there seem to be un underlying problem here,i know it is a cut throat business but the views expressed would defenitely send chill down any frequent traveller.



@ Ric dees and the weekly top 40s, I hope you are not simply posting this because the view was on your top 40 views chart. It's good you talked of views expressed as opposed to facts expressed

Back to stream, KQ's safety audits always return a healthy bill to the carrier, including in the years 2000 and 2007 when we had fatal hull losses. These are safety audits based on applied procedures for maintenance and aircraft operation so go chill yourself with a cold coke. KQ is a safe airline. You think KQ is a skyteam member, entrusted with not only the safety but the confidence of thousands of travellers traveling on tickets issued by carriers like AF and KLM because of the lively livery on the aircraft?

B.Timer
#22 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 4:15:10 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

We in Africa like blaming "the West" for our faults and inadequances.

It is clear that this was Captain error and by extension KQ error.

For starters why did they take off in the absence of clearence to do so!!

How come they quietly compensated the bereaved families.
The panicky shouts of we are crashing and the matter of the Plane tilting horribly(unless we dont believe the data to be authentic) must have been sourced from the ill fated Aircrafts devices.

When it suits us, we blame the West for conspiring against Africa. In other situations we believe the West has better and working systems as compared to what we have.

Case in point is the argument that the ICC is being used by the west to punish certain people and reward others in our political landscape.

I will hear none of that - for it is not true!

PS I am no puppet of anybody's - West or otherwise!!!!


Dunia ni msongamano..
Ash Ock
#23 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:28:12 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
What most people don’t see is the similarity between the 2000 and 2007 crashes. Both of these tragic accidents occurred due to the failure of all four pilots to scan, read, and understand what their instruments were telling them.

In the first case, the plane was descending and then crashed. Both pilots had no idea what the aircraft was doing until it was 10ft above the water, when it hit the captain how precarious their situation was. His desperate yell of “Go up” was captured on the CVR a second before the accident.

In the second case, the non engagement of the auto-pilot was by itself not tragic. What was tragic is that right after take-off, situational awareness was lost. Both pilots did not realize that the plane was not being flown by the autopilot and was dangerously banking. The instruments would have shown them the status of the autopilot and the attitude of the plane. The FDR recorded this information. Both pilots failed to see and therefore could not take the appropriate action until the automated bank warning was set off. The action was then panicky with the captain first banking the plane further to the right, the co-pilot shouting “right captain right” before correcting himself to say left.

Leaving aside the supposed arrogance of the KQ507 captain, note that both of these accidents took place at night. In the first, it was over water and in the second, it was over land during a storm. When such a situation occurs and the pilots do not rely on their instruments, they will become spatially disoriented, with grave consequences.

Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
alma
#24 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:13:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
The problem with this story is that we can identify with it. A captain who is arrogant who doesn't deal with situations as they are supposed to be dealt with.

It's easy to blame the 'WEST' as usual. And have no doubt about it the story is biased....but what isn't even our opinions here are biased to the point where we aren't diapproving the facts but the article writer's "westness".

The questions that need to be asked to prevent the next nairobi-kisumu crash on Kibera slums.

1. Did the pilot follow the right procedures?
2. Did the co-pilot?
3. Was the plane in good condition?
4. If the pilot and co-pilot didn't follow procedure, who's in charge of ensuring they follow right procedure?
5. Is this the first time this has happened at KQ?

Therein lies your answers. Forget the mzungu issues and the west and the they hate us.

If there is a problem in KQ that this article has brought up, deal with it now or expect worse.

I've just read some of the comments here so I want to ask based on the comments

1. Are KQ pilots arrogant to a fault? Do they really call clients, f***ers?
2. Is it true that some of them have a brown probox before they board those planes?
3. Is it true that a huge percentage of the pilots come from well off families who go into piloting for prestige rather than being the best the country can offer?

If any of these are true then KQ has institutional problems rather than pilot errors. So expect more of these "accidents".

Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about. I've never even entered a plane.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Impunity
#25 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:10:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
@alma wewe ni malenge.
Ha hahahahahahah..
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

alma
#26 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:30:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Impunity wrote:
@alma wewe ni malenge.
Ha hahahahahahah..


sasa nimefanya nini?

By the way I took the advice from Mcregae and bought a bond 7 from a supermarket. It tastes better than the one from kalocal.

It makes me see things in question form.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
McReggae
#27 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:15:47 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@alma,
In this partcular, the pilots are also suffering from what the west suffers in terms of blame.......arrogance!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Gordon Gekko
#28 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 9:26:22 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Ric dees wrote:

..Sad state of events if the report is anything to go by, however i will not put blinders to ignore the obvious the blame lies in KQ not boeing in my opinion. I will not draw views from people in the industry, there is tendancy to same views.

However i got a view from a consultant in boeing a Kenyan mwindi and he told me Boeing for the longest time have been fed up with KQ when it comes to dealing with simple procedures regarding fixing problems etc..KQ simply tend to ignore, while this may be the small faults here and there however the fact cannot be lost KQ is known to cut corners.

I will not go into specifics but clearly there seem to be un underlying problem here,i know it is a cut throat business but the views expressed would defenitely send chill down any frequent traveller.



This might be true, but that plane was 6 months old....it must have been ok even without ever having been maintained.

@Spend.thrift "I'm always edgy when the aircraft takes that right bank at JKIA especially at night." It banks and rises at the same time, no chance of ploughing into the ground....ama unaogopa iko brick wall hapo juu?
quicksand
#29 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:31:50 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:

3. Is it true that a huge percentage of the pilots come from well off families who go into piloting for prestige rather than being the best the country can offer?


....you (or your parents) need to be super loaded for you to acquire a CPL/ATPL ...Na kuingia hiyo ab initio training ya KQ ...Shame on you boss ... you would have better luck convincing a mean banker to hand over 10 million as a gift.

I tried thrice (with good grades, and the final time I had a BSc under my belt) ..didn't make it
Kirika
#30 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:46:22 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/26/2011
Posts: 211
Location: Nairobi
Ash Ock wrote:
What most people don’t see is the similarity between the 2000 and 2007 crashes. Both of these tragic accidents occurred due to the failure of all four pilots to scan, read, and understand what their instruments were telling them.

In the first case, the plane was descending and then crashed. Both pilots had no idea what the aircraft was doing until it was 10ft above the water, when it hit the captain how precarious their situation was. His desperate yell of “Go up” was captured on the CVR a second before the accident.

In the second case, the non engagement of the auto-pilot was by itself not tragic. What was tragic is that right after take-off, situational awareness was lost. Both pilots did not realize that the plane was not being flown by the autopilot and was dangerously banking. The instruments would have shown them the status of the autopilot and the attitude of the plane. The FDR recorded this information. Both pilots failed to see and therefore could not take the appropriate action until the automated bank warning was set off. The action was then panicky with the captain first banking the plane further to the right, the co-pilot shouting “right captain right” before correcting himself to say left.

Leaving aside the supposed arrogance of the KQ507 captain, note that both of these accidents took place at night. In the first, it was over water and in the second, it was over land during a storm. When such a situation occurs and the pilots do not rely on their instruments, they will become spatially disoriented, with grave consequences.



Well put !

Couldnt have put it better.
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