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Is Kenya a Failed State
mali ya nguvu
#21 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:33:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/7/2009
Posts: 115
Kenya is failed state just sustained to stay afloat by some few good ordinary kenyans...

How many people have we arrested and prosecuted since the PEV?

A failed state can not administer justice and respect of basic human rights for its citizens,kenya scores zero on this end.

A failed state can not guarantee sovereignty and pride for its citizens,where is pride for this beloved country?

@ obi
dont compare Kenya and Rwanda.....the latter has a focussed vision and in less than a decade you may see why Rwanda is a darling of the west in the region.

Our difference with Somalia and Afaghanistan is that we are not in active war but a passive one yes!!!



Peace to all men of Goodwill
The Real Shaft
#22 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:38:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
i beg to differ...

kenya is not a state...

to begin with...

we are a conglomerate....

of barbaric tribesmen.....

hammering at each with clubs,machetes,stones,et cetera.....

in the hammering...

we are quite successful....

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
VituVingiSana
#23 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:00:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,371
Location: Nairobi
Kenya has DROPPED in its standard of living since 1963 versus most Asian countries. These include S. Korea (which went through a brutal civil war),Singapore (race riots early on),Thailand (lots of problems yet they are far better off than us),India (where do i start with their problems yet #1 in BPO & huge presence in Silicon Valley),China (did you watch the olympics? The new superpower),etc

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
willin2learn
#24 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:15:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 1,178
Some people here have vehemently refused to open their eyes to the following truths;

1. That we do not have a working executive. Actually we are not sure if we have an executive or how many we have.

2. Our Legislature is made of largely what has been agreed here at SK as Mpigs. They can't even pass a simple Tribunal law. Maize and iol brokers

3. The Judiciary has been ailing,was scheduled for Radical surgery but our Health insitutions are worse so no help there. Kenyans only resort to them as a last resort.

My question; if the above is what constitutes the 3 Arms of the Government yet Kenyans do not trust in any of them nor do the 3 Arms trust each other,aren't we a failed state?


adept
#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:34:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/8/2008
Posts: 359
In case you had not seen it,the full 2009 list is here:
http://www.fundforpeace....si/fsi2009/fsi_2009.xls

and for insight on how the scores are arrived at,see the analysis for 2008 here:

http://www.fundforpeace....p;id=342&Itemid=503
There maybe substance in what the report says tho I do not agree with everything stated therein. Alot of the info seems to have been picked directly from media reports as opposed to independent research. I find it interesting that we lag way behind a country like Sierra Leone. Many of the perceptions on Kenya could be as a result of a vocal (sometimes overzealous) civil society that does not hesitate to present reports on state wrongdoing (whether real or imaginary) to everyone that cares to listen in Geneva,New York etc.
Kesh money
#26 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:53:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/10/2009
Posts: 13
@Obi 1 Kanobi
i have 2 agree with you. I believe that one of our main short comings as kenyans is letting others define us and dictate our every step. It seems that many have not heard or do not conform to the saying 'kelele za chura hazimkatazi ng'ombe kunywa maji'. I believe that as kenya we undoubtedly have our many challenges. Whether we have the political will and focus to solve our problems is the subject of another long discussion. Having said that i think it would be a disservice,to the patriots and the hardworking kenyans,if we were to call kenya a failed state. Kenya is at a crucial point,which some may call the make-or-break point but which i would rather call the make-or-make point. Reforms may be taking long but atleast they are taking place. I don't think that kenya has ever invested this heavily on roads before and i also consider the landing of the fibre optic cable as an important milestone. I know and agree that much more could have been done but remember kenyans that this will only be a reality if we appreciated our weaknesses (e.g our court system,transport systems,food and water system among others ) got focused and stopped paying too much attention to the 'frogs' of this world. We know our problems lets now fix them. The main reason why kenya looks like a failed state is arguably because we are a relevant country and our failures get twice as much mention (sadly from some of our own 'patriotic' press) as our successes. So i beg all of you,my fellow kenyans,do not loose hope. Despite the noise hata kesho,wednesday,we'll have a better coutry than today,tuesday! Alluta continua!

Stash Inc.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:54:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
When Kenya becomes a failed state,we will not be able to debate whether its a failed state or not.

In the meantime,lets keep debating.

After an accident,running around screeming and wailing is fine to attract attention,but when the attendants are only keen to pronounce you dead,then you are better off slapping yourself in the face,calming down and bandaging your wounds as best as you can.

Most of the African countries will still have to go through the political awakening that kenya,Zimbabwe,Ivory Coast and Ghana went through and which only Ghana made it unscathed. I hope the success rate improves as they learn from our mistakes. We shall see but all those stable countries will be rocked once citizens demand more openness,looked at Madagascar. Rwanda is a success but everything is under the thumb of Kagame,take him out and the country would fall to pieces in record time.

We may be a failed state but we can still put together a rugby team to beat the US,UK and Australia at will,our athletes still dominate the olympics,our airline still gives BA and Virgin a run for their money,we are still the worlds largest exporters of Horticulture and tea which by the way requires a high degree of organized farming.

If you all want to keep running back to our politics to judge the entire country,then good luck,politics and good governance is important and crucial for growth,but to ignore the rest of Kenya because of political failures is ridiculous. Yes please lets keep agitating for political changes,but on our terms,not on the terms of foreign governments who serve their own interests.


I've noticed the youth in particular coming in to a workplace with a completely outsized notion of their own value and importance... just a thinly-veiled arrogance. May be the credit crunch induced recession is whats needed to remind us all about the value of hard work.... By Anonymous
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
The General
#28 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:08:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/3/2006
Posts: 553
@ Obi,i couldnt have put it better. you are spot on.

The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
Brewer
#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:16:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
The ODM brigade have done a full circle on this issue of failed state especially immediately after the elections and the place reserved for Koffi Annan in the management of our affairs. Remember also the ODM position on the extrajudicial killings. Why are we surprised when the rest of the world takes us seriously?
Djinn
#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:17:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@Obi Wan and SimonKabz - you have nailed it. I am also pretty fed up with people making such assertions yet when you ask what they are doing to help matters,they draw blanks. I personally HATED it when PEV was highlighted in the western media,and at some point likened to the Rwanda genocide. Unlike some countries like Iran,Zimbabwe,China,you did not hear of press getting gagged (and the furore about Media bill was another great LAUGH...what a$$holes). In recent days the Basiji in Iran (akin to Hitler's SS or Gestapo) in Iran have been clobbering the living daylights out of people. In China in recent days also,there have been ethnic/religious clashes with people karate-ing the bejesus out of each other - women or children - and in the middle of big cities. Other day some Austrian was found to have locked up HIS daughter for decades and fathered many kids with her (and we are likened to barbarians because of some civil unrest)....so now we have these BRIGHT MINDS keen to tell us that ours is a failed state and the mere fact that they are able to say so freely in a democratic state,without going missing,is telling in itself. Here's 30 bob - go buy a rope and hang yourself. What Kenya needs is positive thinkers - people who will be part of the solution - not spectators to their OWN destiny.




Failed state my ass! OK we have let the water towers disappear but can we control the weather? Fuel/Food has gone up and the general cost of living - can we control how fast China and the sub-continent propagate (thus putting a strain on food and fuel demand)? get real.

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
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