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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Gatheuzi
#2681 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 7:48:22 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Business Daily wrote:
Add new roots
“Our introduction of the two Bombardier Q400 aircraft made it possible to add new routes
Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
Cde Monomotapa
#2682 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 11:10:08 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
@vvs, we're still awaiting a response.

Cde Monomotapa wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Negative Shareholders Equity of 33bn. Let's put that into perspective. KQ needs to make PAT of 3.3bn/year for 10 years before it gets to positive territory. 10 years.

What was the PAT for the BEST year that KQ had?

If you invest 5/- in KQ by buying shares of KQ vs 5/- in 13% (net of tax) IFB ... the IFB interest for 10 years = 7.50 (compounded interest) + 5/- principal = 12.50

Anyway, off to KK & KenRe I go.


Laughing out loudly No. 1 fan. Shore up yourself and tell the children the Truth. As you are a holder of KK, how long did KK take to get out of doldrums? What did KK do as well? You make winning sweet..!


VituVingiSana
#2683 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 11:14:29 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,368
Location: Nairobi
Kausha wrote:
Just surprised lenders especially local ones have not moved to recall their debt. -33B equity suggests they are tottering on collapse. They will very soon be unable to meet basic obligations like salaries.
KQ is already in the doldrums. The bills are piling up. Ngunze even said they borrowed to pay salaries. Pilots even said, at one point, some of their loan obligations were not being met when KQ hadn't forwarded the monies deducted. GoK stepped in with 4bn which went back to GoK [KRA, etc].
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#2684 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 11:46:24 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,368
Location: Nairobi
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Negative Shareholders Equity of 33bn. Let's put that into perspective. KQ needs to make PAT of 3.3bn/year for 10 years before it gets to positive territory. 10 years.

What was the PAT for the BEST year that KQ had?

If you invest 5/- in KQ by buying shares of KQ vs 5/- in 13% (net of tax) IFB ... the IFB interest for 10 years = 7.50 (compounded interest) + 5/- principal = 12.50

Anyway, off to KK & KenRe I go.


Laughing out loudly No. 1 fan. Shore up yourself and tell the children the Truth. As you are a holder of KK, how long did KK take to get out of doldrums? What did KK do as well? You make winning sweet..!


Kabisa!
In 2011-12 I was all gung-ho about KK. Segman whispered sweet nothings to us. He even shouted on top the rooftops. Press releases every month. I bought into it. Puma showed up and we (VVS included) went crazy. @VVS was in love.

Then came out the truth. Segman had entered into forwards at 100+ and the KES went from 82 to 107 to 84. And those forwards had to be paid.
When oil prices were rising, Segman bought hedges on oil too! Oil prices rose to $140 then fell to $90-ish. KK was effectively buying oil at $110+ when spot prices were much lower. A loss of 6bn. Almost wiped out the Revenue Reserves. Segman had jilted @VVS.

Exit Segman. Enter Ohana.

Ohana started selling properties (nice capital gains when revalued) among other assets. Employees (excess, thieves, lazy) were fired. Capex (stations looked old, etc) was reduced to save cash. Inventories (no more speculation) were trimmed down. OTS participation was reduced. No more fighting for unprofitable market share. Credit terms to customers and dealers were reduced. Dealers that didn't pay were cut off leading to dry-outs. Some dealers were kicked out. Some customers were cut off. Market share dropped. Debt was reduced. Dividends were eliminated.

Ohana stabilized KK through the above actions. Tough renegotiations to restructure loans with the banks. The hedges were 'burnt off' [expired & paid off] and a board decision was made NOT to enter into new hedges. KK borrowed KES to pay down USD debt not related to working capital. All subsidiaries were told that HQ will not bail them out. Subsidiaries were told to borrow locally and pay off USD debt. Some were told to pay back HQ.

KES debt was reduced in line with the reduction in inventories. Lucky for Ohana, lower oil prices ($40-60) meant USD 1mn could buy 2x the petrol vs 2011-12.

2014: The turnaround was happening. A profit was declared. A small token dividend was paid.

2015: Debt is significantly lower. 1H 2015 results were very good. And 2H is expected to be better. Subsidiaries have started Capex spend. Rwanda has added stations. KK is planning to build an office complex in 2016-18 which will provide rental income. Castrol-BP agreement means KK will expand its production and distribution of Castrol products.

Outstanding Issues: GoK has acknowledged but not settled the Yield Shift losses on behalf on KPRL. It's about if not when. That's cash waiting to be collected. Not in 2015 but in future years.
KPC has been told they owe money to KK. Not a question of if but how much. One day the court cases will come to a logical conclusion. That's extra cash whenever it comes.

And KK has turned from a brash teenager to a more mature firm. Shareholders (@VVS et al) will be more careful this time around. We will question management more aggressively.

2011: KK 16/- KQ: 38/- [I think]
2012: KK 15/- KQ 14/- [Rights]
2015: KK 8.50 KQ: 4/-

KK's NAV is around 7 today without accounting for revaluation gains + KPRL + KPC.
KQ's NAV is negative 22-ish. I doubt there's anything left to revalue!

Should I have sold KK at 16 in 2012? YES. d'oh!
Did I sell KK at 16 in 2012? NO. d'oh!
Did I buy KK at 10? YES Sad
did I buy Kk at 9? YES Sad
Did I buy Kk at 8? YES Applause
Did I buy KK at 7+? YES Applause

Did I sell KQ at 14-ish in 2012? YES. Applause Applause Applause [Proceeds went into KenRe & KK]

Looking Forward:
I see KK adding KES 1-2 in PAT EPS annually. That's 12% per year. IFBs offer 13%.
I do not really care about KQ but for my taxes being used to bail it out. It needs to make (or raise) 33bn to get it to positive NAV. Dream on.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Cde Monomotapa
#2685 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2015 7:38:54 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Great trial @vvs, but not good enough. To avoid the bailout being machinated about, then we introduce the so called deep pocketed middle Eastern partners - union drama free.

There is a working relationship with Etihad.

Etihad deepens cooperation with Air France-KLM

http://themalaysianreser...t&utm_medium=twitter
Spikes
#2686 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2015 7:50:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
@VVS I am inspired by your analysis. This is what I need to make a valid decision! Thumbs up!
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
VituVingiSana
#2687 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2015 8:07:04 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,368
Location: Nairobi
[quote=Cde Monomotapa]Great trial @vvs, but not good enough. To avoid the bailout being machinated about, then we introduce the so called deep pocketed middle Eastern partners - union drama free.

There is a working relationship with Etihad.

Etihad deepens cooperation with Air France-KLM

http://themalaysianreser...&utm_medium=twitter[/quote]

Matters naught to me. Good luck. Cheers.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Cde Monomotapa
#2688 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2015 8:24:58 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
VituVingiSana wrote:
[quote=Cde Monomotapa]Great trial @vvs, but not good enough. To avoid the bailout being machinated about, then we introduce the so called deep pocketed middle Eastern partners - union drama free.

There is a working relationship with Etihad.

Etihad deepens cooperation with Air France-KLM

http://themalaysianreser...&utm_medium=twitter[/quote]

Matters naught to me. Good luck. Cheers.


smile
Aguytrying
#2689 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:19:04 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
[quote=Cde Monomotapa]Great trial @vvs, but not good enough. To avoid the bailout being machinated about, then we introduce the so called deep pocketed middle Eastern partners - union drama free.

There is a working relationship with Etihad.

Etihad deepens cooperation with Air France-KLM

http://themalaysianreser...&utm_medium=twitter[/quote]

Matters naught to me. Good luck. Cheers.


smile


@cde. When a company makes a 8bn loss and does nothing about it run away. Makes another >10bn loss the next year and still does nothing run!!!

KK and KQ made ground breaking multibillion shilling losses in the same year. KK reacted swiflty, decisively and brutally. KQ did not. even three years later they have not.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
Cde Monomotapa
#2690 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:22:36 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Aguytrying wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
[quote=Cde Monomotapa]Great trial @vvs, but not good enough. To avoid the bailout being machinated about, then we introduce the so called deep pocketed middle Eastern partners - union drama free.

There is a working relationship with Etihad.

Etihad deepens cooperation with Air France-KLM

http://themalaysianreser...&utm_medium=twitter[/quote]

Matters naught to me. Good luck. Cheers.


smile


@cde. When a company makes a 8bn loss and does nothing about it run away. Makes another >10bn loss the next year and still does nothing run!!!

KK and KQ made ground breaking multibillion shilling losses in the same year. KK reacted swiflty, decisively and brutally. KQ did not. even three years later they have not.


smile
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