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Konza city Reality.
mnandii
#221 Posted : Tuesday, March 13, 2012 10:11:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
alma wrote:
every baby poos. the parents then figure that in order to stop cleaning after the baby, they need to get a nappy or pampers. But the baby doesn't stop pooing.

It is only when you train the baby to stop pooing ovyo ovyo that you can start getting rid of the pampers.

Konza is like a nappy. You still have not dealt with the underlying problem of manpower, governance and institutions.

smile smile
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
jamplu
#222 Posted : Tuesday, March 13, 2012 10:40:47 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
alma wrote:
every baby poos. the parents then figure that in order to stop cleaning after the baby, they need to get a nappy or pampers. But the baby doesn't stop pooing.

It is only when you train the baby to stop pooing ovyo ovyo that you can start getting rid of the pampers.

Konza is like a nappy. You still have not dealt with the underlying problem of manpower, governance and institutions.



So what should be done?????
a4architect.com
#223 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 1:03:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
jamplu wrote:
alma wrote:
every baby poos. the parents then figure that in order to stop cleaning after the baby, they need to get a nappy or pampers. But the baby doesn't stop pooing.

It is only when you train the baby to stop pooing ovyo ovyo that you can start getting rid of the pampers.

Konza is like a nappy. You still have not dealt with the underlying problem of manpower, governance and institutions.



So what should be done?????


@jamplu..this is what i think should be done..correct me if i am wrong

1.Secure 5000 acres from the 14000 acres belonging to EAPCement next to Konza through ministry of industrialisation/ministry of land/ministry of information deal.

2.Recover the kes 1 billion tax payer money spent on buying the 5000 acre land at konza.

3.use the kes 1 billion to lay infrastructure on the new 5000 acre land.

4.Use local architects/financial advisors as opposed to the current london based architects.

5.Money saved by using local consultants can be used to repair and revamp fibre optic cable throughout kenya.

At the moment fibre optic cable internet in Kenya is slow/broken down. The money saved can renovate/revamp this .
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
jamplu
#224 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 2:54:23 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
a4architect.com wrote:
jamplu wrote:
alma wrote:
every baby poos. the parents then figure that in order to stop cleaning after the baby, they need to get a nappy or pampers. But the baby doesn't stop pooing.

It is only when you train the baby to stop pooing ovyo ovyo that you can start getting rid of the pampers.

Konza is like a nappy. You still have not dealt with the underlying problem of manpower, governance and institutions.



So what should be done?????


@jamplu..this is what i think should be done..correct me if i am wrong

1.Secure 5000 acres from the 14000 acres belonging to EAPCement next to Konza through ministry of industrialisation/ministry of land/ministry of information deal.

2.Recover the kes 1 billion tax payer money spent on buying the 5000 acre land at konza.

3.use the kes 1 billion to lay infrastructure on the new 5000 acre land.

4.Use local architects/financial advisors as opposed to the current london based architects.

5.Money saved by using local consultants can be used to repair and revamp fibre optic cable throughout kenya.

At the moment fibre optic cable internet in Kenya is slow/broken down. The money saved can renovate/revamp this .


If the idea is to sell the land to the middle class so that we can have some more disorganized settlement like kitengela and syokimau the land would rather be under EAPCC and remain bare forever! If they can get investors to setup industries and housing for their staff around there then well and good we need industries where people can work not just housing schemes nyumba si chakula!

Regarding the Architects they would have gone for a consortium both local and international they would all learn from each other.

This fiber optic business is not squarely for the govt to sort. The last mile can be handled by local investors if the cost of internet bandwidth is still high due to govt taxes then the govt should bring the taxes down.
Wendz
#225 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:31:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
a4architect.com wrote:
jamplu wrote:
alma wrote:
every baby poos. the parents then figure that in order to stop cleaning after the baby, they need to get a nappy or pampers. But the baby doesn't stop pooing.

It is only when you train the baby to stop pooing ovyo ovyo that you can start getting rid of the pampers.

Konza is like a nappy. You still have not dealt with the underlying problem of manpower, governance and institutions.



So what should be done?????


@jamplu..this is what i think should be done..correct me if i am wrong

1.Secure 5000 acres from the 14000 acres belonging to EAPCement next to Konza through ministry of industrialisation/ministry of land/ministry of information deal.


How will the government manage to do this given that they had some issues with the majority shareholding of this company? Even if they werent, is it really possible to take some asset of a listed public company without the consent of the shareholders? Wouldn't that dilute the "value" of the share? Just thinking aloud. I could be wrong.

Today on K24 at 9.30pm (i think), there will be a documentary on Konza City.... am not privy to the contents but it could actually clear some of the questions/concerns raised.... or make them worse! Be sure to watch!
a4architect.com
#226 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:15:10 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@jamplu..the idea is to repeat exactly what is proposed at Konza on the neighbouring EAPCement 14000 acre vacant land.
This frees KES 1 B. of tax payers money to go directly into city infrastructure.

@wendz...the EAPCement land 99 year lease expired a few years ago. The land is currently ownerless. Squatters have started to invade the land from behind near the railway.

The front close to 13000 acres is still vacant.

Its within Minister of Lands powers to

1.renew lease with title of 14000 acres intact
2.renew lease and issue new title with less acreage by 5000 acres to go to City.
3.Re-issue title to another Kenyan for the public good e.g ICT City

I wish ICT Board can have such an open forum where we can ask questions on the Konza city..in TV,all we will do is to listen to the monologue
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#227 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:20:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
jamplu wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
jamplu wrote:
alma wrote:
every baby poos. the parents then figure that in order to stop cleaning after the baby, they need to get a nappy or pampers. But the baby doesn't stop pooing.

It is only when you train the baby to stop pooing ovyo ovyo that you can start getting rid of the pampers.

Konza is like a nappy. You still have not dealt with the underlying problem of manpower, governance and institutions.



So what should be done?????


@jamplu..this is what i think should be done..correct me if i am wrong

1.Secure 5000 acres from the 14000 acres belonging to EAPCement next to Konza through ministry of industrialisation/ministry of land/ministry of information deal.

2.Recover the kes 1 billion tax payer money spent on buying the 5000 acre land at konza.

3.use the kes 1 billion to lay infrastructure on the new 5000 acre land.

4.Use local architects/financial advisors as opposed to the current london based architects.

5.Money saved by using local consultants can be used to repair and revamp fibre optic cable throughout kenya.

At the moment fibre optic cable internet in Kenya is slow/broken down. The money saved can renovate/revamp this .


If the idea is to sell the land to the middle class so that we can have some more disorganized settlement like kitengela and syokimau the land would rather be under EAPCC and remain bare forever! If they can get investors to setup industries and housing for their staff around there then well and good we need industries where people can work not just housing schemes nyumba si chakula!

Regarding the Architects they would have gone for a consortium both local and international they would all learn from each other.

This fiber optic business is not squarely for the govt to sort. The last mile can be handled by local investors if the cost of internet bandwidth is still high due to govt taxes then the govt should bring the taxes down.


@Jamplu..are you in Nairobi? For the last 2 weeks, Internet has been slow and intermittent due to cable breakage at the coast. What i meant is for the saved money to go into ensuring Internet cables are immediately repaired when broken and to make substitutes when cables are broken.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#228 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:08:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@a4architect. TEAMS, the undersea cable is an initiative of the GOK and some private companies(one being safcom) so the govt has done its share of that. The laying of the fiber is the business of those who will reap from the internet business that being either Zuku....Safcom Kenya Power or KDN and the rest. I think asking govt to lay fiber is asking too much and i even think the place has fiber already.
View the network here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com...sm%2B900%2Bcoverage.gif

On the EAPC land.....that company has issues.....they have a loan with the Japs, some people have settled on the land, I even hear the title was stolen from the offices....iko shida hapo. Besides, the Malili farmers were paid.

The cable breakage is/was an accident....accidents are bound to happen.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#229 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:36:46 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@mrchr...or is it muchiri?......if you are in Nairobi at the moment, you will have noticed that for the last 2 weeks, only Safaricom internet has been reliable,most other providers have been down or slow and they say its coz of a cut cable at the coast.

The money saved on Konza can go a long way in ensuring that a country like Kenya aspiring to be a leader in ICT should never go for days without internet.

Again Wazuans can offer their ideas on what Ministry of Info can do to enable redundancy since even on this angle they still require help,judging from the last 2 weeks without internet.

My layman's idea is that The KES 1 Billion saved can go a long way to offer low interest emergency loans to the internet providers in case of cable cut for example-experts in ICT can give their ideas on how redundancy can be ensured...

On the EAPCement 14000 acre land, the title deed 99 year lease expired and is yet to be renewed. After lease expiry, its usually the prerogative of the Minister for Lands to do the following:
1.Renew the title as it is i.e 14,000 acres to EAPCement
2.Renew the title but reduce acreage by 5000 acres for ICT City
3.Re-allocate 14000 acres to public use e.g ICT City.

When a land has an expired title, it can not be encumbered with any loan,let alone the Japanese loan.
People have settled on around only 100 acres out of 14000 acres since the land is ownerless. 99% of the land is unsettled.

The KES 1 Billion that was paid to Malili farmers can be recovered by GOK selling back the land to buyers as per public procurement and disposal act.

As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#230 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:06:56 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
@mrchr...or is it muchiri?......if you are in Nairobi at the moment, you will have noticed that for the last 2 weeks, only Safaricom internet has been reliable,most other providers have been down or slow and they say its coz of a cut cable at the coast.

The money saved on Konza can go a long way in ensuring that a country like Kenya aspiring to be a leader in ICT should never go for days without internet.

Again Wazuans can offer their ideas on what Ministry of Info can do to enable redundancy since even on this angle they still require help,judging from the last 2 weeks without internet.

My layman's idea is that The KES 1 Billion saved can go a long way to offer low interest emergency loans to the internet providers in case of cable cut for example-experts in ICT can give their ideas on how redundancy can be ensured...

On the EAPCement 14000 acre land, the title deed 99 year lease expired and is yet to be renewed. After lease expiry, its usually the prerogative of the Minister for Lands to do the following:
1.Renew the title as it is i.e 14,000 acres to EAPCement
2.Renew the title but reduce acreage by 5000 acres for ICT City
3.Re-allocate 14000 acres to public use e.g ICT City.

When a land has an expired title, it can not be encumbered with any loan,let alone the Japanese loan.
People have settled on around only 100 acres out of 14000 acres since the land is ownerless. 99% of the land is unsettled.

The KES 1 Billion that was paid to Malili farmers can be recovered by GOK selling back the land to buyers as per public procurement and disposal act.



As you say only safcom has reliable internet connection at the moment....the reason is, safcom uses TEAMS and Seacoms cables so when the TEAMS cable went off they migrated their users to SEACOMS, so blame your providers for failing in strategy, accidents and sabotages are bound to happen orgs should be prepared for any.

I agree with u that we could save money from Konza but we have already invested alot in Malili....besides arent we trying to de-congest the city?. The land at EAPC is not an option due to the reasons given above besides i hear the govt wants to put in place a steel plant on that land.....and maybe beneath the surface there is limestone and other minerals which they plan to eventually mine.

Konza is next to Msa road and there is a train station there, the cable passes there on its way to Nrb from Msa so connectivity will not be an issue, i think the place is ideal. I dont know why u are opposed to it

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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