Wazua
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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slick wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@slick - He is but one and not always the largest shareholder in many of the listed firms.
The bailouts - I am not justifying them - aren't applicable just to "his" investments. I would assume ALL airlines would benefit from a bailout and not just those he has invested in.
So of the total value of the bailout, WB/BH would benefit from just a small percentage. I do not have the numbers but if you can dig them up then we can discuss them. Well look at Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway ownership of these top 3 US zombie airlines either the top or second largest shareholder.WB will mint billions from the bailouts.Bailout money that will be increased to the US national debt that taxpayers have to pay back.Taxes that Buffet pays lower rate than his secretary     Wonder why Jeff Bezos is the richest guy in the world?Here is your answer  As I said,crony capitalism On Amazon, why didn't they pay federal income tax? Did they make losses? Did they enjoy special tax incentives? Were they involved in tax avoidance schemes? Nevertheless have you considered Amazon's other contributions to the US like State Income Tax, GST (VAT), Customs and Excise Duties, tax on employee salaries and benefits? I think it's intellectual dishonesty on your part to claim that Amazon does not pay federal income tax without considering all the relevant factors. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/1/2017 Posts: 288
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sparkly wrote:slick wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@slick - He is but one and not always the largest shareholder in many of the listed firms.
The bailouts - I am not justifying them - aren't applicable just to "his" investments. I would assume ALL airlines would benefit from a bailout and not just those he has invested in.
So of the total value of the bailout, WB/BH would benefit from just a small percentage. I do not have the numbers but if you can dig them up then we can discuss them. Well look at Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway ownership of these top 3 US zombie airlines either the top or second largest shareholder.WB will mint billions from the bailouts.Bailout money that will be increased to the US national debt that taxpayers have to pay back.Taxes that Buffet pays lower rate than his secretary Wonder why Jeff Bezos is the richest guy in the world?Here is your answer As I said,crony capitalism On Amazon, why didn't they pay federal income tax? Did they make losses? Did they enjoy special tax incentives? Were they involved in tax avoidance schemes? Nevertheless have you considered Amazon's other contributions to the US like State Income Tax, GST (VAT), Customs and Excise Duties, tax on employee salaries and benefits? I think it's intellectual dishonesty on your part to claim that Amazon does not pay federal income tax without considering all the relevant factors. @Sparkly.I never said that Amazon doesnt pay any tax.Yes they do pay other taxes like corporate taxes but why not pay federal income tax?Never did I say they deliberately avoid tax.They are using the tax system lobbied by corporates to avoid federal income tax.Smaller firms pay federal income tax why not the larger Amazon?Actually Amazon does enjoy tax incentives with a rebate of 129 million. Check the CNBC and subsequent ITER article from links below.They state Quote:
The company’s newest corporate filing reveals that, far from paying the statutory 21 percent income tax rate on its U.S. income in 2018, Amazon reported a federal income tax rebate of $129 million. For those who don’t have a pocket calculator handy, that works out to a tax rate of negative 1 percent. The fine print of Amazon’s income tax disclosure shows that this achievement is partly due to various unspecified “tax credits” as well as a tax break for executive stock options.
This isn’t the first year that the cyber-retailing giant has avoided federal taxes. Last year, the company paid no federal corporate income taxes on $5.6 billion in U.S. income.
ITEP has examined the tax-paying habits of corporations for nearly 40 years and has long advocated for closing loopholes and special breaks that allow many profitable corporations to pay zero or single-digit effective tax rates. When Congress in 2017 enacted the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and substantially cut the statutory corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, proponents claimed the rate cut would incentivize better corporate citizenship. However, the tax law failed to broaden the tax base or close a slew of tax loopholes that allow profitable companies to routinely avoid paying federal and state income taxes on almost half of their profits.
Amazon is no stranger to tax controversies.Last year the company, in a staggering act of hubris, engaged in a year-long aggressive push for huge new relocation subsidies for its “HQ2” headquarters. A year later, Amazon appears to have won its two-front battle against fair taxes by continuing to altogether avoid federal taxes and obtaining lucrative packages of local tax breaks for not one but two new HQ2 locations, in New York and Virginia as well breaks for an operations center in Nashville, Tenn.
To the credit of local activists, Amazon has had its feet held to the fire for its efforts to pillage local tax bases. Last week Amazon’s leadership ran a gauntlet of public opposition in New York over the scope of the tax giveaways the company has been promised. But allies in Congress have, so far, shown little interest in answering the tough questions about why their new corporate tax law can’t lay a glove on one of the most valuable and profitable corporations in the world. (Crony Capitalism I was talking of) And while the president himself has criticized Amazon for its tax avoidance in the past, the administration has so far displayed no awareness that its own tax package appears to have made the company’s corporate tax avoidance even more rampant than before.
https://www.cnbc.com/201...al-taxes-this-year.html
https://itep.org/amazon-...n-federal-income-taxes/
You think this is fair?I am not the only one questioning this.Major mainstream publications question this too as shown above Contrarian Investor and Trader.Advocate of free markets,limited government interference in the economy and sound money
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,346 Location: Nairobi
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Amazon is being smart. As it should be. They ask different states/countries for tax breaks to locate their warehouses in that state/country. Countries e.g. Kenya, Ethiopia do that as well. We also do so in our private lives. Renters will move when they find cheaper/better lodgings. Some landlords are offering discounts ("tax breaks") to good tenants so they do not move. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/1/2017 Posts: 288
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VituVingiSana wrote:Amazon is being smart. As it should be.
They ask different states/countries for tax breaks to locate their warehouses in that state/country.
Countries e.g. Kenya, Ethiopia do that as well.
We also do so in our private lives.
Renters will move when they find cheaper/better lodgings. Some landlords are offering discounts ("tax breaks") to good tenants so they do not move. Being smart and being fair are two different aspects.Even giant mainstream houses are questioning the fairness of Amazons tax avoidance schemes so I am just not cooking up stuff and being deliberately biased against Amazon.When crony capitalism unfairly bends rules to a corporates favour then they are "smart" to utilize them Contrarian Investor and Trader.Advocate of free markets,limited government interference in the economy and sound money
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,346 Location: Nairobi
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slick wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Amazon is being smart. As it should be.
They ask different states/countries for tax breaks to locate their warehouses in that state/country.
Countries e.g. Kenya, Ethiopia do that as well.
We also do so in our private lives.
Renters will move when they find cheaper/better lodgings. Some landlords are offering discounts ("tax breaks") to good tenants so they do not move. Being smart and being fair are two different aspects.Even giant mainstream houses are questioning the fairness of Amazons tax avoidance schemes so I am just not cooking up stuff and being deliberately biased against Amazon.When crony capitalism unfairly bends rules to a corporates favour then they are "smart" to utilize them Avoidance is legal. Evasion is illegal. Choices have consequences. People should or vote for those who will represent their interests. Capitalism is OK. I am against Cronyism be it in any system including socialism. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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slick wrote:sparkly wrote:slick wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@slick - He is but one and not always the largest shareholder in many of the listed firms.
The bailouts - I am not justifying them - aren't applicable just to "his" investments. I would assume ALL airlines would benefit from a bailout and not just those he has invested in.
So of the total value of the bailout, WB/BH would benefit from just a small percentage. I do not have the numbers but if you can dig them up then we can discuss them. Well look at Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway ownership of these top 3 US zombie airlines either the top or second largest shareholder.WB will mint billions from the bailouts.Bailout money that will be increased to the US national debt that taxpayers have to pay back.Taxes that Buffet pays lower rate than his secretary Wonder why Jeff Bezos is the richest guy in the world?Here is your answer As I said,crony capitalism On Amazon, why didn't they pay federal income tax? Did they make losses? Did they enjoy special tax incentives? Were they involved in tax avoidance schemes? Nevertheless have you considered Amazon's other contributions to the US like State Income Tax, GST (VAT), Customs and Excise Duties, tax on employee salaries and benefits? I think it's intellectual dishonesty on your part to claim that Amazon does not pay federal income tax without considering all the relevant factors. @Sparkly.I never said that Amazon doesnt pay any tax.Yes they do pay other taxes like corporate taxes but why not pay federal income tax?Never did I say they deliberately avoid tax.They are using the tax system lobbied by corporates to avoid federal income tax.Smaller firms pay federal income tax why not the larger Amazon?Actually Amazon does enjoy tax incentives with a rebate of 129 million. Check the CNBC and subsequent ITER article from links below.They state Quote:
The company’s newest corporate filing reveals that, far from paying the statutory 21 percent income tax rate on its U.S. income in 2018, Amazon reported a federal income tax rebate of $129 million. For those who don’t have a pocket calculator handy, that works out to a tax rate of negative 1 percent. The fine print of Amazon’s income tax disclosure shows that this achievement is partly due to various unspecified “tax credits” as well as a tax break for executive stock options.
This isn’t the first year that the cyber-retailing giant has avoided federal taxes. Last year, the company paid no federal corporate income taxes on $5.6 billion in U.S. income.
ITEP has examined the tax-paying habits of corporations for nearly 40 years and has long advocated for closing loopholes and special breaks that allow many profitable corporations to pay zero or single-digit effective tax rates. When Congress in 2017 enacted the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and substantially cut the statutory corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, proponents claimed the rate cut would incentivize better corporate citizenship. However, the tax law failed to broaden the tax base or close a slew of tax loopholes that allow profitable companies to routinely avoid paying federal and state income taxes on almost half of their profits.
Amazon is no stranger to tax controversies.Last year the company, in a staggering act of hubris, engaged in a year-long aggressive push for huge new relocation subsidies for its “HQ2” headquarters. A year later, Amazon appears to have won its two-front battle against fair taxes by continuing to altogether avoid federal taxes and obtaining lucrative packages of local tax breaks for not one but two new HQ2 locations, in New York and Virginia as well breaks for an operations center in Nashville, Tenn.
To the credit of local activists, Amazon has had its feet held to the fire for its efforts to pillage local tax bases. Last week Amazon’s leadership ran a gauntlet of public opposition in New York over the scope of the tax giveaways the company has been promised. But allies in Congress have, so far, shown little interest in answering the tough questions about why their new corporate tax law can’t lay a glove on one of the most valuable and profitable corporations in the world. (Crony Capitalism I was talking of) And while the president himself has criticized Amazon for its tax avoidance in the past, the administration has so far displayed no awareness that its own tax package appears to have made the company’s corporate tax avoidance even more rampant than before.
https://www.cnbc.com/201...al-taxes-this-year.html
https://itep.org/amazon-...n-federal-income-taxes/
You think this is fair?I am not the only one questioning this.Major mainstream publications question this too as shown above Capital moves to the jurisdiction with the most optimal return. It means corporates and individuals will invest in countries and sectors where they are likely to earn the best return on their investment. Taxes are a major cost of investment. On average 40%-60% of value created by nations go into payment of taxes. As a result of this fact, countries engage in tax competition to attract investments, based on their competitive advantages. Governments give tax incentives and rebates because they are competition for investment capital. In the case of the US, they are in competion with the EU, China, India, Brazil etc. You cannot fault the US for giving tax incentives to keep Amazon fiscally in the US. Neither can you fault Kenya for giving manufacturers up to 150% tax allowances on investment or Mauritius for charging no tax to foreigners or the gulf states for spending more on tourists than what they receive. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/1/2017 Posts: 288
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sparkly wrote:slick wrote:sparkly wrote:slick wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@slick - He is but one and not always the largest shareholder in many of the listed firms.
The bailouts - I am not justifying them - aren't applicable just to "his" investments. I would assume ALL airlines would benefit from a bailout and not just those he has invested in.
So of the total value of the bailout, WB/BH would benefit from just a small percentage. I do not have the numbers but if you can dig them up then we can discuss them. Well look at Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway ownership of these top 3 US zombie airlines either the top or second largest shareholder.WB will mint billions from the bailouts.Bailout money that will be increased to the US national debt that taxpayers have to pay back.Taxes that Buffet pays lower rate than his secretary Wonder why Jeff Bezos is the richest guy in the world?Here is your answer As I said,crony capitalism On Amazon, why didn't they pay federal income tax? Did they make losses? Did they enjoy special tax incentives? Were they involved in tax avoidance schemes? Nevertheless have you considered Amazon's other contributions to the US like State Income Tax, GST (VAT), Customs and Excise Duties, tax on employee salaries and benefits? I think it's intellectual dishonesty on your part to claim that Amazon does not pay federal income tax without considering all the relevant factors. @Sparkly.I never said that Amazon doesnt pay any tax.Yes they do pay other taxes like corporate taxes but why not pay federal income tax?Never did I say they deliberately avoid tax.They are using the tax system lobbied by corporates to avoid federal income tax.Smaller firms pay federal income tax why not the larger Amazon?Actually Amazon does enjoy tax incentives with a rebate of 129 million. Check the CNBC and subsequent ITER article from links below.They state Quote:
The company’s newest corporate filing reveals that, far from paying the statutory 21 percent income tax rate on its U.S. income in 2018, Amazon reported a federal income tax rebate of $129 million. For those who don’t have a pocket calculator handy, that works out to a tax rate of negative 1 percent. The fine print of Amazon’s income tax disclosure shows that this achievement is partly due to various unspecified “tax credits” as well as a tax break for executive stock options.
This isn’t the first year that the cyber-retailing giant has avoided federal taxes. Last year, the company paid no federal corporate income taxes on $5.6 billion in U.S. income.
ITEP has examined the tax-paying habits of corporations for nearly 40 years and has long advocated for closing loopholes and special breaks that allow many profitable corporations to pay zero or single-digit effective tax rates. When Congress in 2017 enacted the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and substantially cut the statutory corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, proponents claimed the rate cut would incentivize better corporate citizenship. However, the tax law failed to broaden the tax base or close a slew of tax loopholes that allow profitable companies to routinely avoid paying federal and state income taxes on almost half of their profits.
Amazon is no stranger to tax controversies.Last year the company, in a staggering act of hubris, engaged in a year-long aggressive push for huge new relocation subsidies for its “HQ2” headquarters. A year later, Amazon appears to have won its two-front battle against fair taxes by continuing to altogether avoid federal taxes and obtaining lucrative packages of local tax breaks for not one but two new HQ2 locations, in New York and Virginia as well breaks for an operations center in Nashville, Tenn.
To the credit of local activists, Amazon has had its feet held to the fire for its efforts to pillage local tax bases. Last week Amazon’s leadership ran a gauntlet of public opposition in New York over the scope of the tax giveaways the company has been promised. But allies in Congress have, so far, shown little interest in answering the tough questions about why their new corporate tax law can’t lay a glove on one of the most valuable and profitable corporations in the world. (Crony Capitalism I was talking of) And while the president himself has criticized Amazon for its tax avoidance in the past, the administration has so far displayed no awareness that its own tax package appears to have made the company’s corporate tax avoidance even more rampant than before.
https://www.cnbc.com/201...al-taxes-this-year.html
https://itep.org/amazon-...n-federal-income-taxes/
You think this is fair?I am not the only one questioning this.Major mainstream publications question this too as shown above Capital moves to the jurisdiction with the most optimal return. It means corporates and individuals will invest in countries and sectors where they are likely to earn the best return on their investment. Taxes are a major cost of investment. On average 40%-60% of value created by nations go into payment of taxes. As a result of this fact, countries engage in tax competition to attract investments, based on their competitive advantages. Governments give tax incentives and rebates because they are competition for investment capital. In the case of the US, they are in competion with the EU, China, India, Brazil etc. You cannot fault the US for giving tax incentives to keep Amazon fiscally in the US. Neither can you fault Kenya for giving manufacturers up to 150% tax allowances on investment or Mauritius for charging no tax to foreigners or the gulf states for spending more on tourists than what they receive. @Sparkly.What you have said is true.Tax incentives,tax rebates do spur organizations to keep their operations in countries that offer these tax relief programs.I had indicated in an earlier post that I am of the free-market,limited government Austrian school where government involvement in the economy and private business should be as limited as possible and taxation should be low as possible to allow firms keep as much revenue as possible and plough back into their businesses for greater productivity.In principle I agree to this.I normally see government as a major hindrance to economic activity and the free market should be allowed to produce and retain as much capital as possible.Free markets will always prevail in allocating capital more optimally than government that deploys taxation revenue into malinvestments like bloated militaries (look at US over 700 billion USD military budget-utterly ridiculous and US can survive on a 200 billion or less military budget and still be the largest defence spender in the world) or China's ghost cities. Thus my ideal situation is what I have described above.However,since the Western governments have committed themselves into running a debt based monetary system and a welfare state (both of which I disagree with) that require debt to exponentially grow to maintain the system and social programs to provide for the less priviledged then high taxation is an inevitable reality in maintaining both these systems.Since they have chosen this route,then to obtain this high tax revenue in a fair manner then those with more capital and resources should pay a higher tax rate than those with less capital.To have Warren Buffet pay a lesser tax rate than his secretary is ridiculous.To have Amazon not pay federal income tax is also an abomination where the middle class is paying a higher tax rate relative to their income than the billionaires.Its such shenanigans that keeps expanding the wealth gap between the rich and poor.To have a situation where corporations take advantage of tax relief to pump up their own stock in stock buybacks and grotesque executive bonuses then when a black swan pops up they want Fed money printed bailouts that eventually the taxpayer has to payback is asinine. In conclusion,if the US wants to give tax incentives to large corporations to maintain their business activities within their borders then they should not pass the tax burden to the middle class where the middle strata pays a higher tax rate relative to income than the mega businesses and the mega rich. Contrarian Investor and Trader.Advocate of free markets,limited government interference in the economy and sound money
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,346 Location: Nairobi
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How about bringing the conversation back to NSE/Kenya? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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VituVingiSana wrote:How about bringing the conversation back to NSE/Kenya? Very Well. Here you go. Quote:NSE Reports A Net Loss Of 58% On Reduced Trading Activity In 2019
The Nairobi Securities Exchange has reported a profit before tax of Kes.104 Million for the financial year 2019 as compared to Kes 241 Million recorded in the year 2018.
Net profit declined by 58% to Kes. 80 Million over the same period in 2018.
This was occasioned by a 9% decrease in revenues mainly as a result of a decline in equity trading turnover which declined by 12% from Kes.351 Billion in 2018 to
Kes.307 Billion in 2019.
Equity trading levies equally declined by 12% from Kes.421.6 Million for the year ended 31 December 2018 to Kes.369.1 Million over the same period in 2019. The NSE attributes reduced trading activity to a weak local demand side which did not complement the inter- national activity.
Bonds turnover however edged up 15.80% to settle at Kes.1.3 Trillion for the year 2019 as compared to Kes.1.1 Trillion recorded in 2018.
Interest income in the review period decreased by 23% to Kes.89.1 Million from Kes.116.3 Million recorded over a similar period in 2018 due to utilization of cash deposits on acquisition of strategic investments.
Administrative expenses increased by 12% from Kes.560 Million in 2018 to Kes. 625 Million in 2019 mainly arising from a one off staff restructuring cost of Kes.52 Million in 2019.
This is not expected to recur in 2020.
The ATS system upgrade and the derivatives market were launched in the year.
Both ATS and derivatives systems were capitalized in 2019 resulting in an increase in amortization and depreciation expenses by Kes.11.7 Million. Source: https://tradingroom.co.k...rading-activity-in-2019/
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/6/2018 Posts: 175 Location: Kinshasa
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aemathenge wrote:[quote=VituVingiSana]How about bringing the conversation back to NSE/Kenya? Very Well. Here you go. Net loss? Really? Some of these reporters don't understand the basics of the subject matter they're reporting on. Quote:NSE Reports A Net Loss Of 58% On Reduced Trading Activity In 2019
The Nairobi Securities Exchange has reported a profit before tax of Kes.104 Million for the financial year 2019 as compared to Kes 241 Million recorded in the year 2018.
Net profit declined by 58% to Kes. 80 Million over the same period in 2018.
This was occasioned by a 9% decrease in revenues mainly as a result of a decline in equity trading turnover which declined by 12% from Kes.351 Billion in 2018 to
Kes.307 Billion in 2019.
Equity trading levies equally declined by 12% from Kes.421.6 Million for the year ended 31 December 2018 to Kes.369.1 Million over the same period in 2019. The NSE attributes reduced trading activity to a weak local demand side which did not complement the inter- national activity.
Bonds turnover however edged up 15.80% to settle at Kes.1.3 Trillion for the year 2019 as compared to Kes.1.1 Trillion recorded in 2018.
Interest income in the review period decreased by 23% to Kes.89.1 Million from Kes.116.3 Million recorded over a similar period in 2018 due to utilization of cash deposits on acquisition of strategic investments.
Administrative expenses increased by 12% from Kes.560 Million in 2018 to Kes. 625 Million in 2019 mainly arising from a one off staff restructuring cost of Kes.52 Million in 2019.
This is not expected to recur in 2020.
The ATS system upgrade and the derivatives market were launched in the year.
Both ATS and derivatives systems were capitalized in 2019 resulting in an increase in amortization and depreciation expenses by Kes.11.7 Million. Source: https://tradingroom.co.k...ading-activity-in-2019/[/quote] If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense
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