Wazua
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Just How Big the Universe is
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Wakanyugi wrote:[quote=D32]Some say that there are no absolutes. Certain subjects can have absolutes, while others cannot, e.g. beauty does not absolutes, because it is relative to the eye of the beholder, whereas the answer to the question of the existence of God must have an absolute answer because God either exists or does not. He cannot both exist and not exist at the same time for obvious inconsistencies. Some say that there are no absolutes then someone steals their car, then they go like, "hey that guy just stole my car!", then someone responds "what's wrong with stealing?" He explains that in the paradigm of the thief, theft is relative, it is not wrong if the thief needs to feed his family, so don't complain that your car has been stolen. Relativity. Above is how a relative world view would play out, but in an absolute world view, theft is morally wrong, irrespective, because the moral code has been authored by the creator, and we can use that moral code to discern right from wrong. The next question is, how do we know what is the truth? Which God is the true God, if there is any. Patterns. In this thread, it was correct to arrive to the conclusion that patterns is a method that can be used to identify absolute truth. "Almighty has sufficiently demonstrated His greatness in both the scripture and science. The problem is not the deficiency on Gods part, but rather the dismissal on ours. Prof." Richard A. Swenani(Pls watch these before proceeding)https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1179223142108857/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1087366807961158/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1068838503147322/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1139318906099281/
https://web.facebook.com...deos/10153389535541813/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/981931031838070/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/877539372277237/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875502905814217/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1084660184898487/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/876399292391245/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875827565781751/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/873768822654292/
The truth is that God exists, He created the universe and Earth with humans without sin, but due to man's fall, man was destined to be destroyed because the penalty for sin is death, but God in His mercy and love for Man, decided to let the penalty for sin to fall on himself. God became man in the person of Jesus. Christ's death at the cross was proof that God is who He says that He is - Loving, merciful and a God of justice. His justice was seen at the cross in that someone had to pay the penalty for sin because the wages of sin is death. God cannot say that He is a God of Justice, yet not punishing the sinner. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 The bible is the narration of Gods plan to redeem man, starting with creation, to the fall of man, to the promise of the redeemer in (Gen 3:15), then tracing the history of Christ's lineage from our first parents to the generation that would eventually birth and crucify Christ. Because of the promise of Gen 3:15, Satan knew that that Christ was to come to render Satan powerless over man, it was then Satan's mission to prevent Christ from being birthed by fighting each generation of the lineage from which Christ would come from. After Christ was born, Satan shifted the attack to Christ directly by the decree to kill all babies born at about the expected time of Christ's birth. There was a time in earth's history when the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was prophecy in the old testament that was yet to happen, but today, that prophecy is past history, fulfilled about 2000 years ago. More than 90% of the prophecies in the bible have been fulfilled, only a few are remaining. The biggest one remaining being the end of the world that will be marked be Christ's second coming. If the first more that 90% got fulfilled, why would anyone think that the remaining prophecies will not be fulfilled? https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1133336743364164/[/quote] I could so many holes in your treatise. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is this: 'Arguing with a closed mind (or religion) is a mugs game.' Peace why are you doing this to me? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Swenani wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:[quote=D32]Some say that there are no absolutes. Certain subjects can have absolutes, while others cannot, e.g. beauty does not absolutes, because it is relative to the eye of the beholder, whereas the answer to the question of the existence of God must have an absolute answer because God either exists or does not. He cannot both exist and not exist at the same time for obvious inconsistencies. Some say that there are no absolutes then someone steals their car, then they go like, "hey that guy just stole my car!", then someone responds "what's wrong with stealing?" He explains that in the paradigm of the thief, theft is relative, it is not wrong if the thief needs to feed his family, so don't complain that your car has been stolen. Relativity. Above is how a relative world view would play out, but in an absolute world view, theft is morally wrong, irrespective, because the moral code has been authored by the creator, and we can use that moral code to discern right from wrong. The next question is, how do we know what is the truth? Which God is the true God, if there is any. Patterns. In this thread, it was correct to arrive to the conclusion that patterns is a method that can be used to identify absolute truth. "Almighty has sufficiently demonstrated His greatness in both the scripture and science. The problem is not the deficiency on Gods part, but rather the dismissal on ours. Prof." Richard A. Swenani(Pls watch these before proceeding)https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1179223142108857/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1087366807961158/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1068838503147322/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1139318906099281/
https://web.facebook.com...deos/10153389535541813/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/981931031838070/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/877539372277237/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875502905814217/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1084660184898487/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/876399292391245/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875827565781751/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/873768822654292/
The truth is that God exists, He created the universe and Earth with humans without sin, but due to man's fall, man was destined to be destroyed because the penalty for sin is death, but God in His mercy and love for Man, decided to let the penalty for sin to fall on himself. God became man in the person of Jesus. Christ's death at the cross was proof that God is who He says that He is - Loving, merciful and a God of justice. His justice was seen at the cross in that someone had to pay the penalty for sin because the wages of sin is death. God cannot say that He is a God of Justice, yet not punishing the sinner. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 The bible is the narration of Gods plan to redeem man, starting with creation, to the fall of man, to the promise of the redeemer in (Gen 3:15), then tracing the history of Christ's lineage from our first parents to the generation that would eventually birth and crucify Christ. Because of the promise of Gen 3:15, Satan knew that that Christ was to come to render Satan powerless over man, it was then Satan's mission to prevent Christ from being birthed by fighting each generation of the lineage from which Christ would come from. After Christ was born, Satan shifted the attack to Christ directly by the decree to kill all babies born at about the expected time of Christ's birth. There was a time in earth's history when the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was prophecy in the old testament that was yet to happen, but today, that prophecy is past history, fulfilled about 2000 years ago. More than 90% of the prophecies in the bible have been fulfilled, only a few are remaining. The biggest one remaining being the end of the world that will be marked be Christ's second coming. If the first more that 90% got fulfilled, why would anyone think that the remaining prophecies will not be fulfilled? https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1133336743364164/[/quote] I could so many holes in your treatise. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is this: 'Arguing with a closed mind (or religion) is a mugs game.' Peace why are you doing this to me? Doing what? Your are not R2D32, are you? I simply invoked my constitutional right, not to engage. Surely it is still permitted to walk away? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Anti_Burglar wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:[quote=D32]Some say that there are no absolutes. Certain subjects can have absolutes, while others cannot, e.g. beauty does not absolutes, because it is relative to the eye of the beholder, whereas the answer to the question of the existence of God must have an absolute answer because God either exists or does not. He cannot both exist and not exist at the same time for obvious inconsistencies. Some say that there are no absolutes then someone steals their car, then they go like, "hey that guy just stole my car!", then someone responds "what's wrong with stealing?" He explains that in the paradigm of the thief, theft is relative, it is not wrong if the thief needs to feed his family, so don't complain that your car has been stolen. Relativity. Above is how a relative world view would play out, but in an absolute world view, theft is morally wrong, irrespective, because the moral code has been authored by the creator, and we can use that moral code to discern right from wrong. The next question is, how do we know what is the truth? Which God is the true God, if there is any. Patterns. In this thread, it was correct to arrive to the conclusion that patterns is a method that can be used to identify absolute truth. "Almighty has sufficiently demonstrated His greatness in both the scripture and science. The problem is not the deficiency on Gods part, but rather the dismissal on ours. Prof." Richard A. Swenson (Pls watch these before proceeding)https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1179223142108857/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1087366807961158/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1068838503147322/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1139318906099281/
https://web.facebook.com...deos/10153389535541813/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/981931031838070/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/877539372277237/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875502905814217/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1084660184898487/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/876399292391245/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875827565781751/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/873768822654292/
The truth is that God exists, He created the universe and Earth with humans without sin, but due to man's fall, man was destined to be destroyed because the penalty for sin is death, but God in His mercy and love for Man, decided to let the penalty for sin to fall on himself. God became man in the person of Jesus. Christ's death at the cross was proof that God is who He says that He is - Loving, merciful and a God of justice. His justice was seen at the cross in that someone had to pay the penalty for sin because the wages of sin is death. God cannot say that He is a God of Justice, yet not punishing the sinner. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 The bible is the narration of Gods plan to redeem man, starting with creation, to the fall of man, to the promise of the redeemer in (Gen 3:15), then tracing the history of Christ's lineage from our first parents to the generation that would eventually birth and crucify Christ. Because of the promise of Gen 3:15, Satan knew that that Christ was to come to render Satan powerless over man, it was then Satan's mission to prevent Christ from being birthed by fighting each generation of the lineage from which Christ would come from. After Christ was born, Satan shifted the attack to Christ directly by the decree to kill all babies born at about the expected time of Christ's birth. There was a time in earth's history when the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was prophecy in the old testament that was yet to happen, but today, that prophecy is past history, fulfilled about 2000 years ago. More than 90% of the prophecies in the bible have been fulfilled, only a few are remaining. The biggest one remaining being the end of the world that will be marked be Christ's second coming. If the first more that 90% got fulfilled, why would anyone think that the remaining prophecies will not be fulfilled? https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1133336743364164/ I could poke so many holes in your treatise. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is this: 'Arguing with a closed mind (or religion) is a mugs game.' Peace Occasionally, we come across impossible questions that we cannot refute for the life us. It is ok to feel incompetent in the face of such questions. It is also ok to walk away from them. It is also ok to accept there are other valid perspectives out there. You are terribly right...  "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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Wakanyugi wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:[quote=D32]Some say that there are no absolutes. Certain subjects can have absolutes, while others cannot, e.g. beauty does not absolutes, because it is relative to the eye of the beholder, whereas the answer to the question of the existence of God must have an absolute answer because God either exists or does not. He cannot both exist and not exist at the same time for obvious inconsistencies. Some say that there are no absolutes then someone steals their car, then they go like, "hey that guy just stole my car!", then someone responds "what's wrong with stealing?" He explains that in the paradigm of the thief, theft is relative, it is not wrong if the thief needs to feed his family, so don't complain that your car has been stolen. Relativity. Above is how a relative world view would play out, but in an absolute world view, theft is morally wrong, irrespective, because the moral code has been authored by the creator, and we can use that moral code to discern right from wrong. The next question is, how do we know what is the truth? Which God is the true God, if there is any. Patterns. In this thread, it was correct to arrive to the conclusion that patterns is a method that can be used to identify absolute truth. "Almighty has sufficiently demonstrated His greatness in both the scripture and science. The problem is not the deficiency on Gods part, but rather the dismissal on ours. Prof." Richard A. Swenson (Pls watch these before proceeding)https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1179223142108857/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1087366807961158/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1068838503147322/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1139318906099281/
https://web.facebook.com...deos/10153389535541813/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/981931031838070/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/877539372277237/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875502905814217/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1084660184898487/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/876399292391245/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875827565781751/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/873768822654292/
The truth is that God exists, He created the universe and Earth with humans without sin, but due to man's fall, man was destined to be destroyed because the penalty for sin is death, but God in His mercy and love for Man, decided to let the penalty for sin to fall on himself. God became man in the person of Jesus. Christ's death at the cross was proof that God is who He says that He is - Loving, merciful and a God of justice. His justice was seen at the cross in that someone had to pay the penalty for sin because the wages of sin is death. God cannot say that He is a God of Justice, yet not punishing the sinner. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 The bible is the narration of Gods plan to redeem man, starting with creation, to the fall of man, to the promise of the redeemer in (Gen 3:15), then tracing the history of Christ's lineage from our first parents to the generation that would eventually birth and crucify Christ. Because of the promise of Gen 3:15, Satan knew that that Christ was to come to render Satan powerless over man, it was then Satan's mission to prevent Christ from being birthed by fighting each generation of the lineage from which Christ would come from. After Christ was born, Satan shifted the attack to Christ directly by the decree to kill all babies born at about the expected time of Christ's birth. There was a time in earth's history when the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was prophecy in the old testament that was yet to happen, but today, that prophecy is past history, fulfilled about 2000 years ago. More than 90% of the prophecies in the bible have been fulfilled, only a few are remaining. The biggest one remaining being the end of the world that will be marked be Christ's second coming. If the first more that 90% got fulfilled, why would anyone think that the remaining prophecies will not be fulfilled? https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1133336743364164/ I could poke so many holes in your treatise. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is this: 'Arguing with a closed mind (or religion) is a mugs game.' Peace Occasionally, we come across impossible questions that we cannot refute for the life us. It is ok to feel incompetent in the face of such questions. It is also ok to walk away from them. It is also ok to accept there are other valid perspectives out there. You are terribly right... I am utterly shocked and seriously perturbed by your embrace! Why have you said the thing you have said? Why did you threaten another but embrace me? By that, what are you up to?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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I'm finding this topic to be so difficult. Not just to think about and form an opinion, but even studying on it to be more hard work than a layman can probably bear.
So, how can a 'lay person' live wisely, or is it intelligently under these circumstances? Or even, how can the studied relate with the unstudied?
Maybe all these theories and ideas aren't as important as we suppose them to be. Or the mystery of life and existence isn't meant to be answered in literal terms as science would appear to demand.
In my opinion the most reasonable way to go is to supply a myth that can meet the most basic needs of a people within a culture.
Thus the question of how big the universe is may be a mythical question requiring a mythical answer.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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what if there is another universe out there expanding towards us? What will happen when the two universe expansion collide/meet? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:what if there is another universe out there expanding towards us? What will happen when the two universe expansion collide/meet? We'd not notice the difference for one, and, spacetime itself is 'highly illusionary' that is, it's best not to attempt to define it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:what if there is another universe out there expanding towards us? What will happen when the two universe expansion collide/meet? This question, may not be about science or rather may not be amenable to scientific discourse.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Anti_Burglar wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:[quote=D32]Some say that there are no absolutes. Certain subjects can have absolutes, while others cannot, e.g. beauty does not absolutes, because it is relative to the eye of the beholder, whereas the answer to the question of the existence of God must have an absolute answer because God either exists or does not. He cannot both exist and not exist at the same time for obvious inconsistencies. Some say that there are no absolutes then someone steals their car, then they go like, "hey that guy just stole my car!", then someone responds "what's wrong with stealing?" He explains that in the paradigm of the thief, theft is relative, it is not wrong if the thief needs to feed his family, so don't complain that your car has been stolen. Relativity. Above is how a relative world view would play out, but in an absolute world view, theft is morally wrong, irrespective, because the moral code has been authored by the creator, and we can use that moral code to discern right from wrong. The next question is, how do we know what is the truth? Which God is the true God, if there is any. Patterns. In this thread, it was correct to arrive to the conclusion that patterns is a method that can be used to identify absolute truth. "Almighty has sufficiently demonstrated His greatness in both the scripture and science. The problem is not the deficiency on Gods part, but rather the dismissal on ours. Prof." Richard A. Swenson (Pls watch these before proceeding)https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1179223142108857/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1087366807961158/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1068838503147322/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1139318906099281/
https://web.facebook.com...deos/10153389535541813/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/981931031838070/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/877539372277237/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875502905814217/
https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1084660184898487/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/876399292391245/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/875827565781751/
https://web.facebook.com...videos/873768822654292/
The truth is that God exists, He created the universe and Earth with humans without sin, but due to man's fall, man was destined to be destroyed because the penalty for sin is death, but God in His mercy and love for Man, decided to let the penalty for sin to fall on himself. God became man in the person of Jesus. Christ's death at the cross was proof that God is who He says that He is - Loving, merciful and a God of justice. His justice was seen at the cross in that someone had to pay the penalty for sin because the wages of sin is death. God cannot say that He is a God of Justice, yet not punishing the sinner. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 The bible is the narration of Gods plan to redeem man, starting with creation, to the fall of man, to the promise of the redeemer in (Gen 3:15), then tracing the history of Christ's lineage from our first parents to the generation that would eventually birth and crucify Christ. Because of the promise of Gen 3:15, Satan knew that that Christ was to come to render Satan powerless over man, it was then Satan's mission to prevent Christ from being birthed by fighting each generation of the lineage from which Christ would come from. After Christ was born, Satan shifted the attack to Christ directly by the decree to kill all babies born at about the expected time of Christ's birth. There was a time in earth's history when the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was prophecy in the old testament that was yet to happen, but today, that prophecy is past history, fulfilled about 2000 years ago. More than 90% of the prophecies in the bible have been fulfilled, only a few are remaining. The biggest one remaining being the end of the world that will be marked be Christ's second coming. If the first more that 90% got fulfilled, why would anyone think that the remaining prophecies will not be fulfilled? https://web.facebook.com...ideos/1133336743364164/ I could poke so many holes in your treatise. But if there is one thing I have learned in life it is this: 'Arguing with a closed mind (or religion) is a mugs game.' Peace Occasionally, we come across impossible questions that we cannot refute for the life us. It is ok to feel incompetent in the face of such questions. It is also ok to walk away from them. It is also ok to accept there are other valid perspectives out there. You are terribly right... I am utterly shocked and seriously perturbed by your embrace! Why have you said the thing you have said? Why did you threaten another but embrace me? By that, what are you up to? What is wrong with agreeing with you? Is it illegal? And I did not threaten R2D32. I simply declined to engage. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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tycho wrote:I'm finding this topic to be so difficult. Not just to think about and form an opinion, but even studying on it to be more hard work than a layman can probably bear.
So, how can a 'lay person' live wisely, or is it intelligently under these circumstances? Or even, how can the studied relate with the unstudied?
Maybe all these theories and ideas aren't as important as we suppose them to be. Or the mystery of life and existence isn't meant to be answered in literal terms as science would appear to demand.
In my opinion the most reasonable way to go is to supply a myth that can meet the most basic needs of a people within a culture.
Thus the question of how big the universe is may be a mythical question requiring a mythical answer. I define myth as simply a consensus description of reality - one shared by many people. It is a lens that we all agree to look through in order to perceive and understand a portion of reality in a similar way. Science is a myth, as is religion. What we are discussing here is myth - any evidence we may cite notwithstanding. Can you propose a myth that most of us can agree on? I have done mine. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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