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Co-operative Bank fate.. discuss
obiero
#401 Posted : Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:20:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,520
Location: nairobi
Realtreaty wrote:
Spikes wrote:
enyands wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@Realtreaty
Hiyo ni ndoto.
come to reality




A wazuan notorious cook



@RealTreaty sounds like a longterm investor.


Laughing out loudly
@Spikes, are you a guy of few days stand on these things. The best way to be in is to buy more and make more from rewards like Bonuses, dividends, good capital gains etc than banking your cash. assume I bought Kakuzi when it was 60 Kes a few years back compared to how it has climbed past 350 Kes. How rich could I be today if I had accumulated to say 20000 from 5000 shares? Count from 300,000 to 7,000,000. This is what I know Buffet does.smile



On a similar note. Imagine having 200,000 KQ shares bought at avg price of KES 4.4 then the same rises to KES 17 per share or if you are a serious dreamer a revisit of all time high KES 126 per share

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Spikes
#402 Posted : Thursday, May 19, 2016 8:37:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
obiero wrote:
Realtreaty wrote:
Spikes wrote:
enyands wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@Realtreaty
Hiyo ni ndoto.
come to reality




A wazuan notorious cook



@RealTreaty sounds like a longterm investor.


Laughing out loudly
@Spikes, are you a guy of few days stand on these things. The best way to be in is to buy more and make more from rewards like Bonuses, dividends, good capital gains etc than banking your cash. assume I bought Kakuzi when it was 60 Kes a few years back compared to how it has climbed past 350 Kes. How rich could I be today if I had accumulated to say 20000 from 5000 shares? Count from 300,000 to 7,000,000. This is what I know Buffet does.smile



On a similar note. Imagine having 200,000 KQ shares bought at avg price of KES 4.4 then the same rises to KES 17 per share or if you are a serious dreamer a revisit of all time high KES 126 per share



@RealTreaty, @Obiero I can now agree with you that PATIENCE is SUPREME on investments.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
Gatheuzi
#403 Posted : Friday, May 20, 2016 7:11:33 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994
obiero wrote:
Realtreaty wrote:
Spikes wrote:
enyands wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@Realtreaty
Hiyo ni ndoto.
come to reality




A wazuan notorious cook



@RealTreaty sounds like a longterm investor.


Laughing out loudly
@Spikes, are you a guy of few days stand on these things. The best way to be in is to buy more and make more from rewards like Bonuses, dividends, good capital gains etc than banking your cash. assume I bought Kakuzi when it was 60 Kes a few years back compared to how it has climbed past 350 Kes. How rich could I be today if I had accumulated to say 20000 from 5000 shares? Count from 300,000 to 7,000,000. This is what I know Buffet does.smile



On a similar note. Imagine having 200,000 KQ shares bought at avg price of KES 4.4 then the same rises to KES 17 per share or if you are a serious dreamer a revisit of all time high KES 126 per share

Please don't wake up, keep on dreaming.
Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
Realtreaty
#404 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2016 11:16:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
Sad "The end of the Republic has never looked better......" Barack Obama, 44th President of the United States d'oh! d'oh!
We have had only 4 Presidents. To be like USA we need 40 More. So 40 *10 =400 Years assuming each hooks for 2 terms of 5 yrs. This time I will be oil for harvest by the then generation.Pray Pray
Gatheuzi
#405 Posted : Wednesday, May 25, 2016 7:40:29 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994
Realtreaty wrote:
Sad "The end of the Republic has never looked better......" Barack Obama, 44th President of the United States d'oh! d'oh!
We have had only 4 Presidents. To be like USA we need 40 More. So 40 *10 =400 Years assuming each hooks for 2 terms of 5 yrs. This time I will be oil for harvest by the then generation.Pray Pray

Yes @Realtreaty, US first president, George Washington was serving from 1789 or 227 years ago!'
Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
Realtreaty
#406 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 2:07:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
Measures working- Being SMART with goals
http://www.businessdailyafrica....6/-/xnjremz/-/index.htmlCo-op Bank cuts Sh1.2bn stationery costs by half in shift to paperless system
Realtreaty
#407 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 2:10:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
We are even moving out to Ethiopia to catch another 20 Million or so customers
http://www.businessdailyafrica....28/-/ardva4/-/index.html

Applause Applause smile
OKEYO
#408 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 4:42:28 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 5/18/2016
Posts: 5
Location: nairobi
Realtreaty wrote:
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
We are even moving out to Ethiopia to catch another 20 Million or so customers
http://www.businessdailyafrica....28/-/ardva4/-/index.html

Applause Applause smile

so it's ok to sat that the firm has a brighter future despite the argument that the managers have overstayed?
enyands
#409 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 4:44:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
OKEYO wrote:
Realtreaty wrote:
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
We are even moving out to Ethiopia to catch another 20 Million or so customers
http://www.businessdailyafrica....28/-/ardva4/-/index.html

Applause Applause smile

so it's ok to sat that the firm has a brighter future despite the argument that the managers have overstayed?


MD and chairman ,they need new vibrant blood the likes of Ogina.
Othelo
#410 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 4:56:11 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
enyands wrote:
OKEYO wrote:
Realtreaty wrote:
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
We are even moving out to Ethiopia to catch another 20 Million or so customers
http://www.businessdailyafrica....28/-/ardva4/-/index.html

Applause Applause smile

so it's ok to sat that the firm has a brighter future despite the argument that the managers have overstayed?


MD and chairman ,they need new vibrant blood the likes of Ogina.

Chair and Vice Chair are just puppets!!!
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
Ericsson
#411 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 6:09:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,696
Location: NAIROBI
Chair and Vice Chairman are puppets.The MD lacks new ideas.
You don't grow profits by cost-cutting and then coming to post nonsense news eti reduction in stationery costs contributed to growth in profits.
They need to grow profits via growth in loan book.The bank has never been aggressive in loaning to the retail segment of the population but have been too reliant on SACCOs whose business is now diminishing.Their interest rate to the retail segment is too high compared to its peers and their loan approval process chases away potential customers instead of attracting them.
The good home mortgage business started about 6 years ago hasn't had an impact in the mkt and don't even know their mkt share ni ngapi.
The entry to Ethiopia is just PR;they haven't got the approval from Ethiopia govt to start business.Multinational banks and finance institutions are still barred from engaging in commercial business there.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
enyands
#412 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 7:50:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
Ericsson wrote:
Chair and Vice Chairman are puppets.The MD lacks new ideas.
You don't grow profits by cost-cutting and then coming to post nonsense news eti reduction in stationery costs contributed to growth in profits.
They need to grow profits via growth in loan book.The bank has never been aggressive in loaning to the retail segment of the population but have been too reliant on SACCOs whose business is now diminishing.Their interest rate to the retail segment is too high compared to its peers and their loan approval process chases away potential customers instead of attracting them.
The good home mortgage business started about 6 years ago hasn't had an impact in the mkt and don't even know their mkt share ni ngapi.
The entry to Ethiopia is just PR;they haven't got the approval from Ethiopia govt to start business.Multinational banks and finance institutions are still barred from engaging in commercial business there.


This is desperate move .total desperate . As equity is coming with ideas of growing profits through advance technology like Equitel these guys are working on cost cutting through stationery. Honestly I call this foolish honesty.


Definately there is a problem with management way of thing. Once done with this what cost cutting will they do next . Remember last year cost cutting was reduce the number of staff,this year it's stationery ,next year it will be reducing the number of computers .

What this bank needs is ideas not events.
Realtreaty
#413 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 11:08:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
Ericsson wrote:
Chair and Vice Chairman are puppets.The MD lacks new ideas.
You don't grow profits by cost-cutting and then coming to post nonsense news eti reduction in stationery costs contributed to growth in profits.
They need to grow profits via growth in loan book.The bank has never been aggressive in loaning to the retail segment of the population but have been too reliant on SACCOs whose business is now diminishing.Their interest rate to the retail segment is too high compared to its peers and their loan approval process chases away potential customers instead of attracting them.
The good home mortgage business started about 6 years ago hasn't had an impact in the mkt and don't even know their mkt share ni ngapi.
The entry to Ethiopia is just PR;they haven't got the approval from Ethiopia govt to start business.Multinational banks and finance institutions are still barred from engaging in commercial business there.

Shame on you Liar d'oh!
@ Ericsson, please revise your high school notes. What are profits to you? Its mere simple as 1,2,3
Profit is what remains after expenses, period. The Higher the expenses the lower the profits at fixed Assets.
I won't say more.

enyands
#414 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 11:46:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
Realtreaty wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Chair and Vice Chairman are puppets.The MD lacks new ideas.
You don't grow profits by cost-cutting and then coming to post nonsense news eti reduction in stationery costs contributed to growth in profits.
They need to grow profits via growth in loan book.The bank has never been aggressive in loaning to the retail segment of the population but have been too reliant on SACCOs whose business is now diminishing.Their interest rate to the retail segment is too high compared to its peers and their loan approval process chases away potential customers instead of attracting them.
The good home mortgage business started about 6 years ago hasn't had an impact in the mkt and don't even know their mkt share ni ngapi.
The entry to Ethiopia is just PR;they haven't got the approval from Ethiopia govt to start business.Multinational banks and finance institutions are still barred from engaging in commercial business there.

Shame on you Liar d'oh!
@ Ericsson, please revise your high school notes. What are profits to you? Its mere simple as 1,2,3
Profit is what remains after expenses, period. The Higher the expenses the lower the profits at fixed Assets.
I won't say more.




@RealTreaty we know how expenses eat into PL. Ericson wanted to know of these guys have another ideas for growing profits like come up with new technology "cooptel" that can rival equitel. I think I just gave them a hint for free .."cooptel "
Ericsson
#415 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2016 11:57:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,696
Location: NAIROBI
@Realtreaty
Information is in the detail.Enyands has clarified what my statement meant.
Going forward take time to read keenly and understand the statement before commenting.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
alotoftalk
#416 Posted : Tuesday, May 31, 2016 12:13:06 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2015
Posts: 138
Location: Harare
Realtreaty wrote:
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
We are even moving out to Ethiopia to catch another 20 Million or so customers
http://www.businessdailyafrica....28/-/ardva4/-/index.html

Applause Applause smile


This idea that Kenyan banks will walk into Ethiopia and magically start minting profits is one of the biggest fallacies. They'll have to consider all the following which don't bode well for profit:

1. Minimum paid up capital required of KES 2 Billion; while the KE banks don't have sufficient capital as it is they'll need atleast KES 15 Billion to ably compete with the biggest ET banks.

2. 18 other commercial banks already existing in the country with CBE, the government controlled bank controlling ~70% of the market.

3. The language barrier - setting up a greenfield retail banking operation will be almost impossible because Amharic is the working language.

4. The policy and regulatory environment is very different from that in KE e.g. requirement that banks buy zero coupon government infrastructure bonds, no floating forex, to reptriate profits you have to get approval of the NBE etc

5. The financial reporting, taxation reporting etc are much different in ET so the profits and ROE they currently see in ET banks maybe much lower in IFRS terms.

The bright side is that there is room on the technological side that can be exploited. ET banks are still in the age of brick and mortar mostly.
Investment philosophy development in progress...
Realtreaty
#417 Posted : Tuesday, May 31, 2016 12:32:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
Ericsson wrote:
@Realtreaty
Information is in the detail.Enyands has clarified what my statement meant.
Going forward take time to read keenly and understand the statement before commenting.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Never try to copy in business. Never shave for mere seeing others shaved. Coop I tell you is more diversified through Coop saccos, agri-business, transport industries and is doing great. Coop we know used its Money gram to transfer money worldwide ages before Equity was born. Equity is a kid grown big with fast foods but still look healthy.d'oh! We know Barclays and Coop have massive land reserves in Kenya as fixed assets. Check on other or what Coop is involved in. They are already in Mobile banking through Co-op Money. smile
enyands
#418 Posted : Tuesday, May 31, 2016 1:07:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
Realtreaty wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@Realtreaty
Information is in the detail.Enyands has clarified what my statement meant.
Going forward take time to read keenly and understand the statement before commenting.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Never try to copy in business. Never shave for mere seeing others shaved. Coop I tell you is more diversified through Coop saccos, agri-business, transport industries and is doing great. Coop we know used its Money gram to transfer money worldwide ages before Equity was born. Equity is a kid grown big with fast foods but still look healthy.d'oh! We know Barclays and Coop have massive land reserves in Kenya as fixed assets. Check on other or what Coop is involved in. They are already in Mobile banking through Co-op Money. smile



Do you know that saccos have been given licenses to operate like banks like lending each other ? This is a huge threat for coop bank core business structure-saccos
VituVingiSana
#419 Posted : Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:24:03 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,105
Location: Nairobi
alotoftalk wrote:
Realtreaty wrote:
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
We are even moving out to Ethiopia to catch another 20 Million or so customers
http://www.businessdailyafrica....28/-/ardva4/-/index.html

Applause Applause smile


This idea that Kenyan banks will walk into Ethiopia and magically start minting profits is one of the biggest fallacies. They'll have to consider all the following which don't bode well for profit:

1. Minimum paid up capital required of KES 2 Billion; while the KE banks don't have sufficient capital as it is they'll need atleast KES 15 Billion to ably compete with the biggest ET banks.

2. 18 other commercial banks already existing in the country with CBE, the government controlled bank controlling ~70% of the market.

3. The language barrier - setting up a greenfield retail banking operation will be almost impossible because Amharic is the working language.

4. The policy and regulatory environment is very different from that in KE e.g. requirement that banks buy zero coupon government infrastructure bonds, no floating forex, to reptriate profits you have to get approval of the NBE etc

5. The financial reporting, taxation reporting etc are much different in ET so the profits and ROE they currently see in ET banks maybe much lower in IFRS terms.

The bright side is that there is room on the technological side that can be exploited. ET banks are still in the age of brick and mortar mostly.


Any Kenyan bank entering Ethiopia has to plan to lose money for a few years. Plus the single Ethiopian Telecom Company is 100% government owned so they have ZERO incentive to be innovative. There is no chance of an Equitel or Mobile Money like product that provides competition to Ethioptel or government banks.

All businesses are expected to place a certain minimum % of funds in zero or low-yielding Ethiopian government bonds. These bonds do not even earn enough to cover costs of acquiring the deposits.

Even KenolKobil has to place money in these bonds which earn a sub-par return. KK Ethiopia has not paid KK Kenya a dividend in years.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#420 Posted : Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:58:46 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,105
Location: Nairobi
The Ethiopian Birr is tightly controlled thus the parallel rate is much higher like the South Sudanese Pound was but not as bad. We saw how the profits and investment of KCB and Equity was severely diminished when the SSP was floated.

So anyone investing in Ethiopia by taking money INTO Ethiopia needs to write-down part of the investment since you get a lousy low rate for the Birr. Repatriating profits is very difficult so one cannot assume there will be cashflow from the investment. It is locked in Ethiopia.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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