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Why Kenyan economy is doing very well. Informal survey
Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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FRM2011 wrote:
@mugundaman, you really should get a PR job with Jubilee.
Between 2003 and 2013, kitengela created more millionaires per square KM than any other place in Kenya.
Then the jubilee curse happened.
Today, two of our cement manufacturers are down. EAPCC and ARM. And yet, the remaining players are reporting depressed sales. We have recorded the lowest cement consumption in a decade. But maybe the houses you are talking about are utilizing new tech that doesn't need cement.
Sale of land. All those companies that were making money buying and subdividing plots for sale are all in the red. Urithi,optiven, PRC, username. Let's not talk about Gakuyo. Even big saccos like safcom and stima are stuck with land they can't sell. A friend has been trying to sell a plot behind KAG university for a year now.
Houses for sale. Can I take you for a drive tommorow. We start at mlolongo behind the signature mall, then behind tuffoam and London distillers. There are over 2,000 complete houses in this area alone that have remained unsold for several years now. Funny safaricom pension fund is building another 600 units in the same area. Some developers even closed the on-site sales office. Some have been putting curtains on the houses to give a false impression of occupation.
All property developers who thrived under Kibaki are in the red. But in a twisted stroke of luck, the banks can't auction them because there are no buyers. Think of any developer, type their name on Google and chances are you will be reading about a court case with a bank.
@FRM2011, You know opinions are like nywele. Kila mtu ana zake. But facts and statistics are a stubborn thing. 1. Please give us the KNBS construction rate-of-growth figures for 2018, 2017 and further back. Construction is one of the hugest contributors to our sweltering hot 5% plus growth rates of the past 20 years! A few empty houses with "no buyers" do not equate a whole vibrant industry. Perhaps the houses were poorly designed, or the seller lacks marketing skills. Where is that plot that has not moved behind KAG? MulMulwas Mugundaman wants to buy it. 2. Please do not make me laugh on cement companies. The reason why ARM and EAPCC are down is because of THEFT, GRAFT AND MISMANAGEMENT more than anything else, not because of any deteriorating economic fundamentals. In fact companies like Savannah (in DC of course) are BUILDING NEW PLANTS as we speak! Fierce competition as well as ILLEGAL imports from neighbouring countries (which are not captured in official consumption statistics) is what has brought cement prices down as well as the appearance of a consumption decline. The low prices have been a real boon for the consumer. If I can buy cement from Uganda or Dangote Cement for 450 bob vs 600 bob for local cement, surely it is a no brainer where my money will go. 3. "All property developers who thrived under Kibaki are in the red." This is a vicious lie and you know it papa. Pointing out fraudsters like PRC and Gakuyo as representative of the entire industry is quite a stretch. If "Qwetu" of all things has occupancy (ask Wukan), surely more conventional RE investments are doing far better. There are tens of thousands of private RE companies out there. 6 or 7 in the red is not a representative sample. 4. "There are no buyers"  This is the funniest comment ever. I just bought some property juzi juzi. Are you telling me I do not exist? People are buying and selling properties left right and centre, my friend. Have you been to the and registries recently? Or land board meetings. I went to the one in Isinya na tulingoja kama nguruwe for ages as hundreds of people showed up as early as 5.30 am to get ready to be called for their land transfers to be done.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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FRM2011 wrote:
@mugundaman, you really should get a PR job with Jubilee.
Between 2003 and 2013, kitengela created more millionaires per square KM than any other place in Kenya.
Then the jubilee curse happened.
Today, two of our cement manufacturers are down. EAPCC and ARM. And yet, the remaining players are reporting depressed sales. We have recorded the lowest cement consumption in a decade. But maybe the houses you are talking about are utilizing new tech that doesn't need cement.
Sale of land. All those companies that were making money buying and subdividing plots for sale are all in the red. Urithi,optiven, PRC, username. Let's not talk about Gakuyo. Even big saccos like safcom and stima are stuck with land they can't sell. A friend has been trying to sell a plot behind KAG university for a year now.
Houses for sale. Can I take you for a drive tommorow. We start at mlolongo behind the signature mall, then behind tuffoam and London distillers. There are over 2,000 complete houses in this area alone that have remained unsold for several years now. Funny safaricom pension fund is building another 600 units in the same area. Some developers even closed the on-site sales office. Some have been putting curtains on the houses to give a false impression of occupation.
All property developers who thrived under Kibaki are in the red. But in a twisted stroke of luck, the banks can't auction them because there are no buyers. Think of any developer, type their name on Google and chances are you will be reading about a court case with a bank.
@FRM2011, There is a certain category of housing, those between 4.5-6.5m, IMHO, that are still moving very fast, indicator that there is a category of buyers who are still buying. In my hood ( within the greater DC), a developer snapped half an acre at a bargain of 12 m and developed 6 units and all were taken at circa 5.5m each. Then bought another portion double the size and put up some more and they all went. His limitation now is space which is now all gone. This category of housing is still moving fast. Most of the plots are still over-prized especially the ones without any infrastructural development. Land going for around 500k per eight in most DC locations, not far from amenities, are still going fast "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/28/2018 Posts: 70 Location: Helsingborg, Sweden
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Kenya has a true potential for growth and development. There are a lot of resources to utilize, and whther human, natural or whatever. I however disagree with those saying that the economy is so doing very well. I mean, does borrowing to pay debts and harrassing innocent citizens by harsh taxes constitute a good economy?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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2Czar wrote:Kenya has a true potential for growth and development. There are a lot of resources to utilize, and whther human, natural or whatever. I however disagree with those saying that the economy is so doing very well. I mean, does borrowing to pay debts and harrassing innocent citizens by harsh taxes constitute a good economy? Debts is one thing, taxes are another, a red hawwtt economy growing at 5%+ for the past 17 years is yet another. Such blistering growth rates aint no joke bruh. GDP growth rate is the FORMAL gold standard in measuring whether an economy is hawtt or not. If we measured economic vibrancy by how much "harsh taxes" are charged, countries like Canada would be the least developed and least economically viable countries in the world.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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https://youtu.be/B__SMl13LIQ
https://youtu.be/ERX7xr-5Wlg
I want to hear wazua's only remaining jubilee spinmaster, @mugundaman. A shop that was attracting goodwill of 2M in 2012 is now being offered without goodwill and nobody is interested. I try to understand and rationalize jubilee's insatiable greed. It's evil and demonic but it's human nature. That I can understand. What I can't understand, is this deep hatred they have for kenyans. That which they can't steal, they must destroy to make sure it doesn't work. Public health system, education system, bad fertilizers to farmers. Now they have their guns trained on the small traders in the informal sector.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,655
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FRM2011 wrote:https://youtu.be/B__SMl13LIQ https://youtu.be/ERX7xr-5Wlg
I want to hear wazua's only remaining jubilee spinmaster, @mugundaman. A shop that was attracting goodwill of 2M in 2012 is now being offered without goodwill and nobody is interested. I try to understand and rationalize jubilee's insatiable greed. It's evil and demonic but it's human nature. That I can understand. What I can't understand, is this deep hatred they have for kenyans. That which they can't steal, they must destroy to make sure it doesn't work. Public health system, education system, bad fertilizers to farmers. Now they have their guns trained on the small traders in the informal sector. You should provide a summary of what is being said in the videos. Not everyone on wazua speaks Kikuyu. I only understand part of it because of spending time with Okuyus
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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wukan wrote:FRM2011 wrote:https://youtu.be/B__SMl13LIQ https://youtu.be/ERX7xr-5Wlg
I want to hear wazua's only remaining jubilee spinmaster, @mugundaman. A shop that was attracting goodwill of 2M in 2012 is now being offered without goodwill and nobody is interested. I try to understand and rationalize jubilee's insatiable greed. It's evil and demonic but it's human nature. That I can understand. What I can't understand, is this deep hatred they have for kenyans. That which they can't steal, they must destroy to make sure it doesn't work. Public health system, education system, bad fertilizers to farmers. Now they have their guns trained on the small traders in the informal sector. You should provide a summary of what is being said in the videos. Not everyone on wazua speaks Kikuyu. I only understand part of it because of spending time with Okuyus The two kikuyu tv stations both ran this feature over the weekend. Here is a summary. The businesspeople in Nairobi downtown have been through hell from 2017. Immediately after elections, the govt came after their businesses. First it was on the excuse of evading taxes. Funny because it's KRA that clears all the goods. Then KEBS joined in accusing them of bringing in sub-standard goods. The anti-counterfeit authority jumped in as well. They formed an animal called multi-agency to clear all the goods coming in. This brought in DCI and NIS as well. They banned consolidation as well. To be fair, the govt had benign intentions. But the sheer incompetence and laziness meant poor businesspeople would pay the consequences. A case in point. When the operation started, the agencies didn't even have storage for the impounded goods awaiting verification. In 2017, goods worth 100s of millions were destroyed by rains in a yard owned by kebs. As the importers were busy looking for the certificate of comformity from the agency subcontracted by kebs, their goods got destroyed. So now it's hell getting goods into Kenya. And when they come, the prices are outrageous and the time taken beats business sense. That is how the shops get closed. But wait, how comes there is no shortage of chinese merchadise ? A miracle really. The same goods which kenyans can't import, Chinese are bringing them everyday. No questions asked. Hard to understand why they hate the people who voted for them this much.
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Why Kenyan economy is doing very well. Informal survey
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