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Kenya's economy creating more wealth
Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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MugundaMan wrote:Economic growth is not a joke at all my broda Corruption is bad and we all condemn it, but on a personal level, I have never worked for gava nor benefitted from a single tender my whole life. So it amuses me royally when those who have worked hard to achieve a modest level of success in Kenya are broad brushed as " corrupt/looter/politican crooks!" yet I have not seen a coin of NYS or Goldenberg money since I was born! The opportunities a growing economy provided are what have been my meal ticket. Mugundaman modest level of success in Kenya means you are just a phone call away from poverty the thing they call "middle class" or instagram money and its light years away from the money in that article. Anyway take a closer look at the economy sector by sector and you may understand what is happening. Don't just take the numbers that are thrown from some quarters and IMF they are very subjective.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Obiero, But what about a guy like Cosmas. Is he in the Kiamba category? https://www.the-star.co....rtpesa-jackpot_c1827618
He is one new dollar millionaire that this economy has created (albeit from gamblers). That was my whole point. Out of the new millionaires created by this growing economy each year, a good number of them made their money cleanly! No tenders, no government pilfering, no drug dealing etc. So when closeted communists like aamathenge come here and cry that he is poor because cosmas above is rich and corrupt, I can only SMH in bemusement.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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jamplu wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Economic growth is not a joke at all my broda Corruption is bad and we all condemn it, but on a personal level, I have never worked for gava nor benefitted from a single tender my whole life. So it amuses me royally when those who have worked hard to achieve a modest level of success in Kenya are broad brushed as " corrupt/looter/politican crooks!" yet I have not seen a coin of NYS or Goldenberg money since I was born! The opportunities a growing economy provided are what have been my meal ticket. Mugundaman modest level of success in Kenya means you are just a phone call away from poverty the thing they call "middle class" or instagram money and its light years away from the money in that article. Anyway take a closer look at the economy sector by sector and you may understand what is happening. Don't just take the numbers that are thrown from some quarters and IMF they are very subjective. The economy rocketed in growth to 6.3% in the second quarter as recently announced by the govt. Real Estate in Kenya as a subsector has been growing at well over 9% per annum for as long as I can remember. Jameni what more do you want? Surely even you yourself does not truly believe that all dollar millionaires in Kenya are corrupt!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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MugundaMan wrote:radiomast wrote: 3. Real estate billionaires are old money types who were given valuable tracts of land in and around big towns. Or were able to simply grab this land.
...
How does this negate anything I said?
There are a few real estate billionaires who are NOT old money types and did not grab vast tracts of lands. I posted one story of the kamzee prof who bought hundreds of acres of barren land in Western that is now worth over a billion. He is by no means corrupt nor an old money type who stole vast tracts of land as far as we know. Yes not all are thieves. But the article states that the increase in the number of super-wealthy people is largely amongst politicians or people with political connections. That is troubling.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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radiomast wrote: Yes not all are thieves.
Asante! At last I get a straight answer Quote:But the article states that the increase in the number of super-wealthy people is largely amongst politicians or people with political connections. That is troubling. No it doesn't! Allykhan Satchu may have sort of alluded to it and even then what he exactly said is this: Alkhan wrote:Investment analyst Aly-Khan Satchu said Kenya’s economic performance in recent years only points to the fact that its list of the newly super-rich is likely to be dominated by politicians and the few investors in fast-growing fields such as ICT.
“Certainly news that Kenya is among the top 10 worldwide in ultra high net worth wealth creation with double-digit compound annual growth rate between 2012 and 2017 is an eye-catcher particularly at a time when 'You can’t eat GDP' is the refrain you hear from Kisumu to Mombasa,” said Mr Khan.
“What these reports tell me is, first that there has been a massive skew of wealth accumulation in favour of those at the top of the pyramid, a reverse Robin Hood as it were,” he said, adding that politically exposed persons, investors in ICT and PEs, fintech as well as growth in monopolistic businesses explain the outcome. These are his opinions not facts, and even going by his opinions, he does not say that politically exposed persons are the ONLY category of HNWI's! Knight Frank on the other hand does not make any pretences at knowing what the composition of those numbers are. It simply states facts below: Quote:Wealth-X’s findings are, however, in line with other reports that have ranked Kenya among the hotspots for accumulation of wealth in Africa.
Realtor Knight Frank has, for instance, published a report showing that Kenya created 180 new dollar millionaires in 2017, increasing the number of persons with net-worths of more than Sh500 million to 1,290.
Knight Frank said that out of the 1,290 dollar millionaires, less than 10 had a net-worth of over Sh50 billion, while 90 were worth Sh5 billion and above. But what about Kunal Ajmera of, CEO of Grant Thorton? Did He say anything different? Let's see for ourselves; Quote:Kunal Ajmera, the chief operating officer at Grant Thornton, a consultancy, said that compared to the wealth generated by the new startups in technology and other emerging sectors in the western world, most of the wealth generated in Kenya still relates to the “old money” and comes from traditional sectors like manufacturing, real estate, and finance.
“Real estate in particular stands out as a sector that has given handsome returns to anyone who had large cache of land in cities like Nairobi,” he said.
“We have also seen increased appetite by the private equity and multinational firms in Kenya looking to buy well-established businesses in agriculture, hospitality, medical and manufacturing sectors and grow their footprints in Africa,” Mr Ajmera said, even as he acknowledged that the report is a painful reminder of the widening gap between the rich and the poor.
“A clear trend emerging from this report is also the sad reality of increasing gap between those who have it all and those who have nothing. Income inequality in Kenya is surely worsening as is evident in our Gini co-efficient, which currently stands at 48.5 per cent ( a Gini index of zero means perfect equality) and has been worsening in last 15 years or so.” He says NOTHING about PEPs dominating the list. Interestingly, he claims the GINI index is going up, yet a few sentences later, this is what the article says; Quote:A recent World Bank report said that poverty rates in Kenya remain relatively high compared to other lower middle-income countries.
This is despite the proportion of Kenyans living on less than the international poverty line of $1.90 or (Sh191.88) per day) declining from 43.6 per cent in 2005/06 to 35.6 per cent in 2015/16.
Kenya’s economy expanded by an estimated 6.3 per cent in the first six months of 2018, offering hope for more jobs. Now which one is it. Is poverty going UP or poverty going DOWN, and are the red hot GDP growth numbers having a POSITIVE or a NEGATIVE impact on poverty reduction? It cannot be both! Bottom line it is laughable to say in an economy growing at 6.3% this quarter, in which poverty numbers are rapidly declining, that "things are getting worse" or that "PEPs alone are getting wealthy" without providing even one iota of evidence besides an opinion which does not even truly say the above things. Numbers never lie and the numbers in this article are very clear; 1. Poverty is going DOWN 2. HNWIs are being created at rapid clip and they are NOT all PEPs 3. The economy is growing rapidly at 6.3% as of the last quarter And this will only get better as more investments in infrastructure and social safety nets to cushion the poor come in place, as well as a sustained war on graft. Not everybody can be "rich" but poverty numbers can be rapidly trimmed if the economy continues to boom as it has been doing the past 16 years (since 2002) There is a bright future ahead in Kenya for the hard working. It is easier today than in any time in our history as a country for an average Joe with financial literacy and a excellent work ethic to get out of poverty and join the swelling HNWI numbers in Kenya in their lifetime and this is an incontrovertible FACT that the numbers in the article above have shown. Shalom.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/8/2018 Posts: 507 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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MugundaMan wrote:jamplu wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Economic growth is not a joke at all my broda Corruption is bad and we all condemn it, but on a personal level, I have never worked for gava nor benefitted from a single tender my whole life. So it amuses me royally when those who have worked hard to achieve a modest level of success in Kenya are broad brushed as " corrupt/looter/politican crooks!" yet I have not seen a coin of NYS or Goldenberg money since I was born! The opportunities a growing economy provided are what have been my meal ticket. Mugundaman modest level of success in Kenya means you are just a phone call away from poverty the thing they call "middle class" or instagram money and its light years away from the money in that article. Anyway take a closer look at the economy sector by sector and you may understand what is happening. Don't just take the numbers that are thrown from some quarters and IMF they are very subjective. The economy rocketed in growth to 6.3% in the second quarter as recently announced by the govt. Real Estate in Kenya as a subsector has been growing at well over 9% per annum for as long as I can remember. Jameni what more do you want? Surely even you yourself does not truly believe that all dollar millionaires in Kenya are corrupt! What you are preaching here is growth delusion... and the problem is you are trying so hard convince yourself and us with certainty that the economy is doing good based on some numbers and worst of it numbers from politicians. Clearly what you are talking about doesn't resonate with the truth of what the majority are experiencing and going through. Its basic economics those numbers are not a real measure of well being even Kuznets knew that.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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jamplu wrote:
What you are preaching here is growth delusion... and the problem is you are trying so hard convince yourself and us with certainty that the economy is doing good based on some numbers and worst of it numbers from politicians. Clearly what you are talking about doesn't resonate with the truth of what the majority are experiencing and going through. Its basic economics those numbers are not a real measure of well beingeven Kuznets knew that.
On whose planet? Yours? Which measure is more accurate and please give the data to support your wild and scandalous allegations!
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/22/2009 Posts: 206
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MugundaMan wrote:jamplu wrote:
What you are preaching here is growth delusion... and the problem is you are trying so hard convince yourself and us with certainty that the economy is doing good based on some numbers and worst of it numbers from politicians. Clearly what you are talking about doesn't resonate with the truth of what the majority are experiencing and going through. Its basic economics those numbers are not a real measure of well beingeven Kuznets knew that.
On whose planet? Yours? Which measure is more accurate and please give the data to support your wild and scandalous allegations! https://www.the-star.co....s-ago-says-cma_c1811587
According to that article, Kenya's are about 50% poorer today than they were a decade ago. The sectors that have been responsible for growth over the last 20 years or so including Telcoms, real estate and liberalization of key sectors such as healthcare can no longer support that growth. Worryingly, no other sectors seem capable of replacing real estate and telecoms, especially in regards to employment opportunities, meaning Kenya is in for a rough ride.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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MugundaMan wrote:jamplu wrote:
What you are preaching here is growth delusion... and the problem is you are trying so hard convince yourself and us with certainty that the economy is doing good based on some numbers and worst of it numbers from politicians. Clearly what you are talking about doesn't resonate with the truth of what the majority are experiencing and going through. Its basic economics those numbers are not a real measure of well beingeven Kuznets knew that.
On whose planet? Yours? Which measure is more accurate and please give the data to support your wild and scandalous allegations! in my planet we try to understand what we are talking about. school yourself on basic economics then come to the table!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Quote:https://www.the-star.co....s-ago-says-cma_c1811587
According to that article, Kenya's are about 50% poorer today than they were a decade ago. The sectors that have been responsible for growth over the last 20 years or so including Telcoms, real estate and liberalization of key sectors such as healthcare can no longer support that growth. Worryingly, no other sectors seem capable of replacing real estate and telecoms, especially in regards to employment opportunities, meaning Kenya is in for a rough ride. With all due respect, the article says no such thing! It's talking about the SAVINGS rate of Kenyans and aversion towards the capital markets, which tells us zero about poverty reduction or economic growth!My cousin in the village makes a boatload of money daily brewing muratina but spends it all 'enjoying life'so to measure his poverty via his savings rate is a tricky affair.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Quote: Which measure is more accurate and please give the data to support your wild and scandalous allegations!
Quote:in my planet we try to understand what we are talking about. school yourself on basic economics then come to the table!! Answer the darn question Wacha polojo Mingi!
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/22/2009 Posts: 206
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MugundaMan wrote:Quote:https://www.the-star.co....s-ago-says-cma_c1811587
According to that article, Kenya's are about 50% poorer today than they were a decade ago. The sectors that have been responsible for growth over the last 20 years or so including Telcoms, real estate and liberalization of key sectors such as healthcare can no longer support that growth. Worryingly, no other sectors seem capable of replacing real estate and telecoms, especially in regards to employment opportunities, meaning Kenya is in for a rough ride. With all due respect, the article says no such thing! It's talking about the SAVINGS rate of Kenyans and aversion towards the capital markets, which tells us zero about poverty reduction or economic growth!My cousin in the village makes a boatload of money daily brewing muratina but spends it all 'enjoying life'so to measure his poverty via his savings rate is a tricky affair. Savings = surplus. A decade ago, the average disposable income was so high that Kenyans could afford to YOLO and save at the same time. Anyway, according to you, what sector(s) is currently creating jobs for people, especially the hordes of graduates who are leaving college every year?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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MugundaMan wrote:Quote: Which measure is more accurate and please give the data to support your wild and scandalous allegations!
Quote:in my planet we try to understand what we are talking about. school yourself on basic economics then come to the table!! Answer the darn question Wacha polojo Mingi! Stop looking at only economic variables only the social aspects also matter. Look at your indicators same time with SPI - Now go learn the part you are missing from the works by Michael E. Porter and Scott Stern. Na ujaribu kutulia
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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@mugundaman The section below says that the list of wealthy is DOMINATEDby politicians whereas those who have made money in the ICT sector are FEWAlkhan wrote: Quote:Investment analyst Aly-Khan Satchu said Kenya’s economic performance in recent years only points to the fact that its list of the newly super-rich is likely to be dominated by politicians and the few investors in fast-growing fields such as ICT.
“Certainly news that Kenya is among the top 10 worldwide in ultra high net worth wealth creation with double-digit compound annual growth rate between 2012 and 2017 is an eye-catcher particularly at a time when 'You can’t eat GDP' is the refrain you hear from Kisumu to Mombasa,” said Mr Khan.
“What these reports tell me is, first that there has been a massive skew of wealth accumulation in favour of those at the top of the pyramid, a reverse Robin Hood as it were,” he said, adding that politically exposed persons, investors in ICT and PEs, fintech as well as growth in monopolistic businesses explain the outcome.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
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We have people like Mailu, Waiguru and Mucheru who gave up jobs that were paying millions for a government appointment. Businessmen like Uhuru and Buzeki who despite founding billion shilling businesses still went in hammer and tongs for political positions. Meanwhile Mugundaman wants to play dumb about the situation
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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TNT wrote:
Savings = surplus. A decade ago, the average disposable income was so high that Kenyans could afford to YOLO and save at the same time.
Where is your data on this, baba? Give us the numbers and the source and maybe we can take you seriously! Quote:Anyway, according to you, what sector(s) is currently creating jobs for people, especially the hordes of graduates who are leaving college every year? Now we are getting to substance! According to Deloitte (2017): 1. Financial services - banking, insurance, pensions, capital markets 3. Public Sector - Security, women and youth empowerment, devolution, health education, Energy and resources 4. ICT 5. Agriculture 6. Manufacturing 7. Transport and Logistics 8. Tourism and they left out the red hot real estate sector! All growing! Jameni this is not rocket science; a sector grows, jobs are created, employment goes down, standards of living improve for everybady. Only an insane person cannot see this!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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jamplu wrote: Stop looking at only economic variables only the social aspects also matter. Look at your indicators same time with SPI - Now go learn the part you are missing from the works by Michael E. Porter and Scott Stern. Na ujaribu kutulia
Hakuna kitu umetuambia hapa papa. Go bring all your unique metrics and indicators and show us how everything (standards of living, health etc) went DOWN in an inverse relationship with GDP based on your wild unsubstantiated allegations! Until you do so you are just wasting key strokes.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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radiomast wrote:@mugundaman The section below says that the list of wealthy is DOMINATEDby politicians whereas those who have made money in the ICT sector are FEW
But that is just a wild conjecture in the peculiar style of jamplu by Mr Satchu! Where is his data to prove that PEPs dominate the dollar millionaire category? Please do not mistake a wild guess for fact! Remember there are a lot of industrialists, pseudo-businessmen, legit business people, real estate company owners, service industry moguls, tourism company owners and so much more in virtually every sector of the economy. So until Mr Satchu gives us concrete data, he cannot claim as fact that the list is dominated by PEPs alone.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/22/2009 Posts: 206
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MugundaMan wrote:TNT wrote:
Savings = surplus. A decade ago, the average disposable income was so high that Kenyans could afford to YOLO and save at the same time.
Where is your data on this, baba? Give us the numbers and the source and maybe we can take you seriously! Quote:Anyway, according to you, what sector(s) is currently creating jobs for people, especially the hordes of graduates who are leaving college every year? Now we are getting to substance! According to Deloitte (2017): 1. Financial services - banking, insurance, pensions, capital markets 3. Public Sector - Security, women and youth empowerment, devolution, health education, Energy and resources 4. ICT 5. Agriculture 6. Manufacturing 7. Transport and Logistics 8. Tourism and they left out the red hot real estate sector! All growing! Jameni this is not rocket science; a sector grows, jobs are created, employment goes down, standards of living improve for everybady. Only an insane person cannot see this! Give a fool enough rope and he'll hang himself. A few excerpts from the report you've referenced: Insurance: According to the IRA, the growth in insurance premiums declined to 7.3% in Q3 2016 compared to a 12.8% growth in Q3 2015. Financial Services: The KNBS reported that the Financial Services Industry (FSI) which contributes approximately 6.8% to the country’s GDP, withstood a turbulent year to post a growth of 6.1% in the third quarter (Q3) 2016 compared to a growth of 10.3% registered in Q3 2015. Capital Markets: The securities market’s performance declined in the fourth quarter (Q4) 2016. Agriculture: The agriculture industry in Kenya remains the most prominent, important and dominant industry. As of 2016, the industry accounted for over 26% of the total GDP, 20% of employment, 75% of the labour force, and over 50% of revenue from exports. According to the KNBS, the agriculture sector grew by 3.9% in Q3 2016 compared to a growth of 5.5% in the Q3 2015. KNBS attributed this decline in growth to poor performance Conclusion: Seems you cannot read and comprehend. You reference a report yet you fail to note the keyword "declined" [/size]that appears prominently throughout the report. And since you don't get it, [size=7]real estate is the past, not the future. The next bunch of millionaires and billionaires won't come from the real estate sector.
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