@Ham,

BREAKING NEWS

a) there are many families, some large, where the parents afford all
manner of luxuries - trips and all - big families notwithstanding,

b) there are couples with no kids at all but are already suffering
financially and cant afford juicy steaks and vacations to exotic places
which seem very important to you.

You are mixing up personal financial management and parenting, where the latter is not just a monetary undertaking but includes the former and much much more.

Your friends are struggling to balance both and unfortunately they have become your S.I unit of parenting and financial management. Sadly, you have therefore reached this (your) life-defining conclusion (to us it isn't) based on a very narrow population sample of your immediate ecosystem of friends) and little wonder your results are so terribly flawed.

You need to get NEW PEERs, otherwise just by observing this bubble of your close friends you will be caught up in these flawed self-reinforcing conclusions that are peculiar to the group rather applicable to the wider humanity.

Give me a woman who has raised kids and one who hasn't, and don't tell me who is who and after observing how they relate with other people (kindness, patience, tolerance, selflessness,etc) I can tell if she is a parent or a soul whose world revolves around them.

I never said I can't raise kids, I know I have the capability of raising a few kids comfortably if I ever chose to go down that path. But I DONT want any kids. By choice and not because of financial circumstances or any other reason that some people are trying to pass.

There was no fall out with my parents, I love my parents very much but that should not be a basis of getting children. You get children because you want to get children and not to "birth" your mother and father. That is one of the reasons why we end up with people having kids they cannot raise. Because they wanted to "birth" their mother and father even without analyzing their situation to see if they can afford that "luxury".

We are supposed to be an enlightened generation, why are we still clinging to these old fashioned traditions of "birthing" our fathers and mothers even when we can't really afford the said luxury?

What purpose does it serve to have a son named after my father if I can't put food on the table for him?

And my fiance is female, a really really hot woman if you ask me, lol, so no am not gay, am very much heterosexual. I know a few chics from my past who can attest to that.

And even I were gay, why would it really be a problem? Gay people are human beings. They are very bit as human as you and I. It's about time people stopped this homophobia. It's not OK to discriminate against people based on their sexual preference.

Having big heavy balls is actually considered macho so I would rather have big balls.

And where pray tell is this place where people weigh their balls at? Lolest.

There is no relationship between being rich/wealthy and having kids.

@ham, the best piece is this one by @Intelligentsia.

I've been reading your posts and I hope the actions of few sample friends you know, and your own parents mess is not what destroyed your perception of the true image of family. And when you look at them, you think that family is what they are!

You obviously didn't get the point. What am questioning is why seemingly educated people would have kids that they cannot comfortably support.

Nobody contested the fact that well off families can raise over ten kids if they want to. My question is about those people who should know better but due to society's pressure and the need to fit in, decide to have kids that they know very well they will struggle to raise.

Why? So that people on the outside can make comments like "what a beautiful family" while quietly you know very well that you stay up nights worrying about how you will afford to raise those kids?

There are so many people out there like that. For the people who have money and can raise the Brady Bunch, good for them, if they want to have twenty kids they can, they have every right to. But to these guys who want to go to weddings to parade their three kids so that relatives can wax lyrical about their lovely family and how they are "watu wa maana" and yet they are crying every day about their struggles, maybe those people should reevaluate their priorities.

Don't fall into a life of struggle so as to please society. f*** society. Do you, do what's right for you. Society will talk about how good your family looks at that family gathering but that society won't be there when the school fees are due.

Don't be a people pleaser by doing something you know deep down is bad for you and your overall well being.

People seek acknowledgement and acceptance by doing the most detrimental things. Just to please uncle so and so and auntie who and who at that family gathering. Those kids you have there belong to you and you alone. Quit trying to impress people with society's bullshit.

And get off your high horse already. Where does it say that a woman that has kids is more kind more patient and more tolerant than a woman who doesn't have kids? Puhlease. I can show you a million women who have no kids that are kind and tolerant and patient as those mothers you claim. And I can also show you a million mothers who have four or five kids that are complete pieces of shit as well. Having kids doesn't suddenly make you more kind and more tolerant. If a woman was a bitch before she had kids she will still be a bitch even after 5 kids. Fact.

Your argument has absolutely no basis, just a thinly veiled attempt to disrespect women who have chosen not to have kids.

And my circle of friends are my friends no matter what. Everybody goes through rough patches and we all need a helping hand from time to time. To say that my peers are not responsible is very pretentious of you. Which world is this you live in that you have never had to ask someone or someone ask you for a little financial assistance? Who are you, Bill Gates?

It doesn't matter if my friends fall into financial hardships, I will not change my circle just because one of my friends reached out to me for some financial assistance. Am not that disloyal and fake. You are the people who only want to hang out with "friends" who are well off even though deep down you know that those people are not really your friends. Get real.

I have come to the sad realisation that society is the worst dictator we have around.

It forces us to look 'normal'...

...get married!!


..we want to see kids, are you living like siblings??!!!

...be serious, the little one needs a sister/brother!!

Thou MUST obey the Society or else...

Very well.

A kid is me. It is my flesh, my blood, and ultimately, the heir to my wealth.

In that regard, if you do not want a kid, this is because you do not want your flesh, your blood, and you wish to be buried with your wealth.

So what is it that you do not like about your flesh?

Are you suffering from a disease of the flesh, something like Peyronie's disease perhaps? (Link)

what is it that you do not like about your blood?

Are you human immuno-virus positive and would not like to pass it on to your kid?

What would you like to happen to your accumulated wealth if you die tonight?

Play do tell

Life exists only to perpetuate itself. There's no other reason for being alive....careers,fun,politics, religion etc etc is all secondary. We live to procreate. Period.

" What are they for? What value do they add in someone's life? They are expensive, messy, loud, big responsibilities and really don't make anything better in someone's life in my opinion. And did I mention that they are really expensive?"

@Ham, this is how you started a topic on children..... your values as an atheists can show clearly in that paragraph

Everyone here can see who is a fool here...lol