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The Bible (For discussion purposes no religion contest)
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,716
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UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:How the Bible came about is much political. If you know history well and how Christianity was spread by Catholics between 1 A.D and 1500 A.D you will realize that it was so much politics. For instance when Jesus was crucified with a thief and the people asked who should be crucified, they all said Jesus. Wasn't that democracy? which forms part of politics. I think God's things know no democracy or any such a thing.
About the 'kamkunjis' someone talked about, i think that is his assumption and hypothesis. If God wanted something done, he would'nt convene a Kamkunji of any sort. He would just find his supernatural way out.
The Bible is full of controversies and lies as well. Am a Christian but some things that the Bible teaches are strange. The Bible portrays the Jews as the chosen people by God. Throughout the Bible, we see God only protecting Jews and enabling them win wars against others like Egyptians and Palestines. In the Bible, God commands some of his people to kill Palestines and non-Jews!! All along the Bible its like its only Christians who were created by God, but the rest are satanic people!!! Just think of the bible story just like the Gikuyu and Mumbi story only that the Gikuyus did not write theirs down and then go out into the world to conquer other peoples and spread their stories. If they had we would have a worldwide religion called Gikuyunity.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Kusadikika wrote:murchr wrote:Kusadikika wrote:The discussions that eventually led to what was included and not included in the bible were determined in large meetings of the church called ecumenical councils. These meetings were like the Bomas meetings that debated the constitution of Kenya. Delegates (Bishops) would come from all the churches in the Roman Empire and seek to come to a consensus on issues. Just as it happened in Bomas, there were many factions and differing opinions. Each of those meetings produced a set of things that had been agreed upon which the delegates took back to their churches as the truth. Of course for everything that was agreed upon there were dissenters who disagreed and they would form sects that disagreed with the rest. The first council was held in Nicaea in 325 AD under the Emperor Constantine. The Bible is a product of agreements in such Kamukunjis though I cannot tell you which one. There were very many over hundreds of years and of different churches as they split. Was the church in Ethiopia invited to these kamukunjis? What about the Jews and Muslim. Rem the old testament text & the koran dont differ much. Another thing, why did they take off the Gospel of Mary? Is it because they dint want to include women in the church? Remember the first of these meetings was convened by Emperor Constantine in 325 AD so it only included Bishops from within the Roman Empire, Ethiopia was not in the empire. Yet they believe 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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murchr wrote:Kusadikika wrote:The discussions that eventually led to what was included and not included in the bible were determined in large meetings of the church called ecumenical councils. These meetings were like the Bomas meetings that debated the constitution of Kenya. Delegates (Bishops) would come from all the churches in the Roman Empire and seek to come to a consensus on issues. Just as it happened in Bomas, there were many factions and differing opinions. Each of those meetings produced a set of things that had been agreed upon which the delegates took back to their churches as the truth. Of course for everything that was agreed upon there were dissenters who disagreed and they would form sects that disagreed with the rest. The first council was held in Nicaea in 325 AD under the Emperor Constantine. The Bible is a product of agreements in such Kamukunjis though I cannot tell you which one. There were very many over hundreds of years and of different churches as they split. Was the church in Ethiopia invited to these kamukunjis? What about the Jews and Muslim. Rem the old testament text & the koran dont differ much.Another thing, why did they take off the Gospel of Mary? Is it because they dint want to include women in the church? They differ fundamentally! The 2 can't even agree on who between the sons of Abraham was to be offered as sacrifice
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Kusadikika wrote:UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:How the Bible came about is much political. If you know history well and how Christianity was spread by Catholics between 1 A.D and 1500 A.D you will realize that it was so much politics. For instance when Jesus was crucified with a thief and the people asked who should be crucified, they all said Jesus. Wasn't that democracy? which forms part of politics. I think God's things know no democracy or any such a thing.
About the 'kamkunjis' someone talked about, i think that is his assumption and hypothesis. If God wanted something done, he would'nt convene a Kamkunji of any sort. He would just find his supernatural way out.
The Bible is full of controversies and lies as well. Am a Christian but some things that the Bible teaches are strange. The Bible portrays the Jews as the chosen people by God. Throughout the Bible, we see God only protecting Jews and enabling them win wars against others like Egyptians and Palestines. In the Bible, God commands some of his people to kill Palestines and non-Jews!! All along the Bible its like its only Christians who were created by God, but the rest are satanic people!!! Just think of the bible story just like the Gikuyu and Mumbi story only that the Gikuyus did not write theirs down and then go out into the world to conquer other peoples and spread their stories. If they had we would have a worldwide religion called Gikuyunity. Not really. The initial Christians were predominantly of the Jewish ethnicity. They conquered no one. Christianity is not the white man's religion. It was brought to them just like it was brought to us
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:Kusadikika wrote:The discussions that eventually led to what was included and not included in the bible were determined in large meetings of the church called ecumenical councils. These meetings were like the Bomas meetings that debated the constitution of Kenya. Delegates (Bishops) would come from all the churches in the Roman Empire and seek to come to a consensus on issues. Just as it happened in Bomas, there were many factions and differing opinions. Each of those meetings produced a set of things that had been agreed upon which the delegates took back to their churches as the truth. Of course for everything that was agreed upon there were dissenters who disagreed and they would form sects that disagreed with the rest. The first council was held in Nicaea in 325 AD under the Emperor Constantine. The Bible is a product of agreements in such Kamukunjis though I cannot tell you which one. There were very many over hundreds of years and of different churches as they split. Was the church in Ethiopia invited to these kamukunjis? What about the Jews and Muslim. Rem the old testament text & the koran dont differ much.Another thing, why did they take off the Gospel of Mary? Is it because they dint want to include women in the church? They differ fundamentally! The 2 can't even agree on who between the sons of Abraham was to be offered as sacrifice The agree on the creation story and much of what happens after that, remember Abrahams sons form the 2 middle-eastern religions. Islam = Ishmael Jewish = Israel. They agree on Jesus and his teachings. They even honor Mary more than protestants. I havent read the Koran, but would like to know if some accounts of Enoch were adapted. The Ethiopian and Egyptian Orthodox church subscribe to about 46 books of the old Testament. The gospel of Thomas calls for a personal connection with God just like Jesus had and it states that one doesnt need to be in an organized church to have this relation with God. This must have angered the Bishops and indeed it was agreed in that Kamkunji that the Gospel must have been fake "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2014 Posts: 1,420 Location: Bohemian Grove
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murchr wrote:I think the early church wanted to pass a certain story and anything that contradicted it was deleted and called un inspired. This mentality exists even today. The Church rarely changes with changing times.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/20/2015 Posts: 489 Location: Nairobi
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as someone has already pointed above. I think we can summarize it that way. A society got civilized faster than all the other societies in the world. it then decided to document all its religious believes.my issues of contention are as follows: -According to the Bible, God only did good things only to Jews and caused pain and anger among others like Egyptians and Palestines. Is God unjust and unfair only to love others and hate others? -For crude oil to form undeneath the earth's surface, it can take upto 1 million years for plant and animal remains to undergo decomopisition and chemical alterations to become crude oil under extreme temperatures. The Biblical story from Adam to the year 2000 is approximately 5000 years!! How comes? -If going to heaven only happens after you accept Christ Jesus as per the new testament what will happen to Africans who died before Bible things were brought by the white man to Africa? -How comes most Chinese are pagans or worship funny funny gods but they still progress while Nigeria with very many Christians suffer from very many calamities? - I believe that God exists, He surely does exist. But these Bible and Quran things, i find them to be the undoings of men who were influential during those times!! Enjoy every moment of your life, you never know when your time will come.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Society means civilization; so a society can't get civilized faster than others.
God doesn't surely exist; he/she/it must be encountered in mythical space. The Bible, Koran are mythical contexts and they can only be judged or evaluated like any other myths.
So the important questions are:
1. Why and how do humans create myths?
2. How do we evaluate myths?
3. How do myths transition?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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What was the importance of gold in the garden of Eden? Gen 2: 12-13 wrote:The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.… "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:What was the importance of gold in the garden of Eden? Gen 2: 12-13 wrote:The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.… The mythical import of gold is everlasting perfection.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:murchr wrote:What was the importance of gold in the garden of Eden? Gen 2: 12-13 wrote:The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.… The mythical import of gold is everlasting perfection. yeah... the concept of the streets of gold have always baffled me - why? gold is only valuable because it's rare (and noble)! not because it's beautiful having lots of it kinda kills the value of Gold.... it's not the best building material for roads. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:murchr wrote:What was the importance of gold in the garden of Eden? Gen 2: 12-13 wrote:The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.… The mythical import of gold is everlasting perfection. yeah... the concept of the streets of gold have always baffled me - why? gold is only valuable because it's rare (and noble)! not because it's beautiful having lots of it kinda kills the value of Gold.... it's not the best building material for roads. The meaning we give to symbols in the deepest areas of mythical space contrasts greatly with the normal day to day meanings. Like 'road' isn't a construction like Uhuru highway, but a basis for being. A golden road is a perfect and noble basis for being.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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tycho wrote:masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:murchr wrote:What was the importance of gold in the garden of Eden? Gen 2: 12-13 wrote:The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.… The mythical import of gold is everlasting perfection. yeah... the concept of the streets of gold have always baffled me - why? gold is only valuable because it's rare (and noble)! not because it's beautiful having lots of it kinda kills the value of Gold.... it's not the best building material for roads. The meaning we give to symbols in the deepest areas of mythical space contrasts greatly with the normal day to day meanings. Like 'road' isn't a construction like Uhuru highway, but a basis for being. A golden road is a perfect and noble basis for being. Ant known gold deposits in the middle east? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:tycho wrote:masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:murchr wrote:What was the importance of gold in the garden of Eden? Gen 2: 12-13 wrote:The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.… The mythical import of gold is everlasting perfection. yeah... the concept of the streets of gold have always baffled me - why? gold is only valuable because it's rare (and noble)! not because it's beautiful having lots of it kinda kills the value of Gold.... it's not the best building material for roads. The meaning we give to symbols in the deepest areas of mythical space contrasts greatly with the normal day to day meanings. Like 'road' isn't a construction like Uhuru highway, but a basis for being. A golden road is a perfect and noble basis for being. Ant known gold deposits in the middle east? I don't know if there are or there have been gold deposits in the ME. But their actual or physical existence is unnecessary in issues regarding myth. Only knowledge of it's symbolism is sufficient.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2013 Posts: 1,977 Location: Here
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UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:as someone has already pointed above. I think we can summarize it that way. A society got civilized faster than all the other societies in the world. it then decided to document all its religious believes.my issues of contention are as follows:
-According to the Bible, God only did good things only to Jews and caused pain and anger among others like Egyptians and Palestines. Is God unjust and unfair only to love others and hate others?
-For crude oil to form undeneath the earth's surface, it can take upto 1 million years for plant and animal remains to undergo decomopisition and chemical alterations to become crude oil under extreme temperatures. The Biblical story from Adam to the year 2000 is approximately 5000 years!! How comes?
-If going to heaven only happens after you accept Christ Jesus as per the new testament what will happen to Africans who died before Bible things were brought by the white man to Africa?
-How comes most Chinese are pagans or worship funny funny gods but they still progress while Nigeria with very many Christians suffer from very many calamities?
- I believe that God exists, He surely does exist. But these Bible and Quran things, i find them to be the undoings of men who were influential during those times!! Interesting! The oil formed before God decided to create man maybe. Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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tycho wrote:murchr wrote:tycho wrote:masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:murchr wrote:What was the importance of gold in the garden of Eden? Gen 2: 12-13 wrote:The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.… The mythical import of gold is everlasting perfection. yeah... the concept of the streets of gold have always baffled me - why? gold is only valuable because it's rare (and noble)! not because it's beautiful having lots of it kinda kills the value of Gold.... it's not the best building material for roads. The meaning we give to symbols in the deepest areas of mythical space contrasts greatly with the normal day to day meanings. Like 'road' isn't a construction like Uhuru highway, but a basis for being. A golden road is a perfect and noble basis for being. Ant known gold deposits in the middle east? I don't know if there are or there have been gold deposits in the ME. But their actual or physical existence is unnecessary in issues regarding myth. Only knowledge of it's symbolism is sufficient. If its a myth then it should have been inspired by the surroundings. If there are no gold deposits then the middle-easterners must have envied other societies that had gold......the land of cush may be? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2015 Posts: 681 Location: Kenya
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UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:as someone has already pointed above. I think we can summarize it that way. A society got civilized faster than all the other societies in the world. it then decided to document all its religious believes.my issues of contention are as follows:
-According to the Bible, God only did good things only to Jews and caused pain and anger among others like Egyptians and Palestines. Is God unjust and unfair only to love others and hate others?
-For crude oil to form undeneath the earth's surface, it can take upto 1 million years for plant and animal remains to undergo decomopisition and chemical alterations to become crude oil under extreme temperatures. The Biblical story from Adam to the year 2000 is approximately 5000 years!! How comes?
-If going to heaven only happens after you accept Christ Jesus as per the new testament what will happen to Africans who died before Bible things were brought by the white man to Africa?
-How comes most Chinese are pagans or worship funny funny gods but they still progress while Nigeria with very many Christians suffer from very many calamities?
- I believe that God exists, He surely does exist. But these Bible and Quran things, i find them to be the undoings of men who were influential during those times!!
60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Boris Boyka wrote:UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:as someone has already pointed above. I think we can summarize it that way. A society got civilized faster than all the other societies in the world. it then decided to document all its religious believes.my issues of contention are as follows:
-According to the Bible, God only did good things only to Jews and caused pain and anger among others like Egyptians and Palestines. Is God unjust and unfair only to love others and hate others?
-For crude oil to form undeneath the earth's surface, it can take upto 1 million years for plant and animal remains to undergo decomopisition and chemical alterations to become crude oil under extreme temperatures. The Biblical story from Adam to the year 2000 is approximately 5000 years!! How comes?
-If going to heaven only happens after you accept Christ Jesus as per the new testament what will happen to Africans who died before Bible things were brought by the white man to Africa?
-How comes most Chinese are pagans or worship funny funny gods but they still progress while Nigeria with very many Christians suffer from very many calamities?
- I believe that God exists, He surely does exist. But these Bible and Quran things, i find them to be the undoings of men who were influential during those times!! Interesting! The oil formed before God decided to create man maybe. Picture a child/toddler, trying to take in an adult's explanation... I bet this is what God, Alpha and Omega, sees when we try 'defining' Him. Is God's one day, similar to our one day? If man can be made in a split second... when sperm gets to ovum, what is crude oil?
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/27/2010 Posts: 266 Location: Nairobi
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UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:How the Bible came about is much political. If you know history well and how Christianity was spread by Catholics between 1 A.D and 1500 A.D you will realize that it was so much politics. For instance when Jesus was crucified with a thief and the people asked who should be crucified, they all said Jesus. Wasn't that democracy? which forms part of politics. I think God's things know no democracy or any such a thing.
About the 'kamkunjis' someone talked about, i think that is his assumption and hypothesis. If God wanted something done, he would'nt convene a Kamkunji of any sort. He would just find his supernatural way out.
The Bible is full of controversies and lies as well. Am a Christian but some things that the Bible teaches are strange. The Bible portrays the Jews as the chosen people by God. Throughout the Bible, we see God only protecting Jews and enabling them win wars against others like Egyptians and Palestines. In the Bible, God commands some of his people to kill Palestines and non-Jews!! All along the Bible its like its only Christians who were created by God, but the rest are satanic people!!! Those were scientifically advanced flesh and blood beings(Elohim): They travelled in flying crafts (Chariots) They demanded fresh food from their worshippers (Sacrifice) They feared contracting diseases from humans (Priests had to cleanse themselves before entering their temples/Lepers were kept out) Leviticus 21: 17 One of them fought with Jacob They had a wicked sense of humor (Abraham's test) They perpetrated genocide (The firstborns of Egypt, Jericho, Sodom/Gomorrah) And the clincher: The" fish" that swallowed Jonah
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Boris Boyka wrote:UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:as someone has already pointed above. I think we can summarize it that way. A society got civilized faster than all the other societies in the world. it then decided to document all its religious believes.my issues of contention are as follows:
-According to the Bible, God only did good things only to Jews and caused pain and anger among others like Egyptians and Palestines. Is God unjust and unfair only to love others and hate others?
-For crude oil to form undeneath the earth's surface, it can take upto 1 million years for plant and animal remains to undergo decomopisition and chemical alterations to become crude oil under extreme temperatures. The Biblical story from Adam to the year 2000 is approximately 5000 years!! How comes?
-If going to heaven only happens after you accept Christ Jesus as per the new testament what will happen to Africans who died before Bible things were brought by the white man to Africa?
-How comes most Chinese are pagans or worship funny funny gods but they still progress while Nigeria with very many Christians suffer from very many calamities?
- I believe that God exists, He surely does exist. But these Bible and Quran things, i find them to be the undoings of men who were influential during those times!! Interesting! The oil formed before God decided to create man maybe. From my understanding before man was created, there were other beings the bible calls them the "giants". Compared to them man was like a grasshopper. Whenever a generation went wrong with God, he cleared them. Even the African mythology explains there being giants existing. That can explain the fossil fuel (remember even plants etc form fossils). As for millions of years, no one has lived that long to prove that it takes a million years for crude to form. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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