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The Tale of 2 Countries Kenya & Singapore
Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/28/2015 Posts: 10
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murchr wrote:Torio wrote:
[quote=Torio]Kibaki may appear to have grown the economy when you look at the GDP, but when you factor in inflation, and the impact of population growth his "accomplishments" are unimpressive. Per capita output in Kenya rose from ~1000 to 1500 between 1964 and 2012. During Kibaki's tenure, the rise was barely $200. Very unimpressive given the inflation.
Now this ^^^^ is total yap...are you the only wazuan who doesnt know that the Kenyan economy esp the per capita regressed? Before you yap here do some research please Guess I might be the only one unaware ... which would be surprising as Kibaki seems to be highly regraded here.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/28/2015 Posts: 10
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nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio]
But back to the point, would you care to elaborate what is this specific human capital that you have made reference to several times, lacking in Africa in particular Kenya but available among the tiger chaps especially Singapore. Nothing but the Wikipedia definition: the stock of knowledge, habits, social and personality attributes, including creativity, embodied in the ability to perform labor so as to produce economic value. First, our scientific (technical) knowledge base is weak, and we seem to have a poor drive to change this. Cases in point: non-mechanized/un-scientific agriculture, the jua kali sector and a regressing tertiary education system. Extreme religiosity and a host of isms compound the problem.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio]
But back to the point, would you care to elaborate what is this specific human capital that you have made reference to several times, lacking in Africa in particular Kenya but available among the tiger chaps especially Singapore. Nothing but the Wikipedia definition: the stock of knowledge, habits, social and personality attributes, including creativity, embodied in the ability to perform labor so as to produce economic value. First, our scientific (technical) knowledge base is weak, and we seem to have a poor drive to change this. Cases in point: non-mechanized/un-scientific agriculture, the jua kali sector and a regressing tertiary education system. Extreme religiosity and a host of isms compound the problem. Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/28/2015 Posts: 10
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nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2015 Posts: 681 Location: Kenya
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Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. Tario I support.
60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it.  so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. 
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 8/23/2013 Posts: 34
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nakujua wrote:murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow. Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow. Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997 Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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nakujua wrote:Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. you people never fail to surprise me. So... is IQ a factor of skin color? presence of melanin or lack there of? is melanin abundance a causal factor or a correlational factor? Lazy brains tend to draw up conclusions like this! is IQ a factor of birth, diet, environment? Does the weight a mother pick up during her pregnancy affect the IQ of the child she is bearing? Does talking to your child while in the womb and after they are born (way before they can give your any kind of feedback) affect the IQ of the child? What about having elder siblings? Are there other factors? are they causal or correlational? What are the causal not correlational factors that actually make IQ tests differ among groups of people?Don't be a lazy thinker!! In my well considered opinion it's all down to 2 things... CULTURE and DIET amongst other factors! even such things as height are to a large extent having a dietary correlation. Has anyone looked up the Flynn effect? by the way... how come the Japanese or the chineses (that are supposed to have higher IQs) don't go around reminding everyone that they are in the front of the bell curve and yet it's the people in the middle that do? Don't consume hate science and look at your kids any differently! your kids are not damned to be low IQed just because their folks had black skins... priss! synthesising the causality of IQ or any other trait of the human race to just 1 or 2 variables is incredibly lazy... FAGA!! DON'T BE A LAZY THINKER! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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nakujua wrote:timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow. Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997 Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. 
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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nakujua wrote:timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow. Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997 Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. Can we therefore conclude that the more black you are the lower you IQ is? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:nakujua wrote:Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. you people never fail to surprise me. So... is IQ a factor of skin color? presence of melanin or lack there of? is melanin abundance a causal factor or a correlational factor? Lazy brains tend to draw up conclusions like this! is IQ a factor of birth, diet, environment? Does the weight a mother pick up during her pregnancy affect the IQ of the child she is bearing? Does talking to your child while in the womb and after they are born (way before they can give your any kind of feedback) affect the IQ of the child? What about having elder siblings? Are there other factors? are they causal or correlational? What are the causal not correlational factors that actually make IQ tests differ among groups of people?Don't be a lazy thinker!! In my well considered opinion it's all down to 2 things... CULTURE and DIET amongst other factors! even such things as height are to a large extent having a dietary correlation. Has anyone looked up the Flynn effect? by the way... how come the Japanese or the chineses (that are supposed to have higher IQs) don't go around reminding everyone that they are in the front of the bell curve and yet it's the people in the middle that do? Don't consume hate science and look at your kids any differently! your kids are not damned to be low IQed just because their folks had black skins... priss! synthesising the causality of IQ or any other trait of the human race to just 1 or 2 variables is incredibly lazy... FAGA!! DON'T BE A LAZY THINKER! sasa @ma-sukuma, si @ti-mbosho amesema bell curve ni ukweli wa maisha - how is one supposed to discuss with one who believes that the color of your skin is a determinant of ones intelligence, si unakubaliana tu na yeye - sasa utamwambia nini, na tayari anajua yeye na wewe na mimi tulizaliwa na ujinga.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow. Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997 Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. Can we therefore conclude that the more black you are the lower you IQ is? nyakati fulani zilizopita kulikuwa na mzalendo, ambaye hakufurahishwa hata kidogo na matamshi ambayo yalilenga kuzua utatanishi katika mshikamano wetu kama wakenya. nitaepuka swali lako la balagha, ili nisijipate mashakani.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow. Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997 Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. Can we therefore conclude that the more black you are the lower you IQ is? nyakati fulani zilizopita kulikuwa na mzalendo, ambaye hakufurahishwa hata kidogo na matamshi ambayo yalilenga kuzua utatanishi katika mshikamano wetu kama wakenya. nitaepuka swali lako la balagha, ili nisijipate mashakani. Bwana nakujua, kiswahili kiako, ni kisuri sana. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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FRM2011 wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Torio wrote:nakujua wrote:[quote=Torio][quote=nakujua][quote=Torio]
Hapo sawa, so its basically poor leadership that pulled Kenya back as compared to Singapore
Hapana si sawa. Leadership is just one small bit of it. so human capital (as defined on Wikipedia) is number one, the port number two, some other stuff then, Lee yee/ arap moi just a tinny little bit. hapo ni sawa. In simple terms he's saying that the "African" IQ is lower that that of the Asian thus the difference. Hapo sawa, I guess then we africans especially kenyans were not born with the creative capacity nor the ability to perform meaningful labor to produce economic value. The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more … the Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow. Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997 Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. Can we therefore conclude that the more black you are the lower you IQ is? nyakati fulani zilizopita kulikuwa na mzalendo, ambaye hakufurahishwa hata kidogo na matamshi ambayo yalilenga kuzua utatanishi katika mshikamano wetu kama wakenya. nitaepuka swali lako la balagha, ili nisijipate mashakani. Bwana nakujua, kiswahili kiako, ni kisuri sana. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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@Torio, Welcome aboard, I like the way you are thinking and arguing. Your argument makes a lot of sense. I have always argued that human capital surpasses all other resources in the world. That it why the average Kenyan as you correctly put it in 1964 had no chance of competing with the Singaporean (who is basically a chinese immigrant) in commerce and investment growth. The chinese have been engaged in organised nation building and trade since recorded history while the african/kenyan remains organised upto the clan level and probably went to school simply because the local missionary was insistent on getting anyone to learn to read and as they were the youngest (or weakest) child in a family and were not fit to herd cattle their father had no problem getting rid of them by sending them to school. Given the same tools, the performance of the Kenyan leader would be dragged down by the collective mediocrity of the led while the Singaporean leader's performance will be raised by the high knowledge and expectations of the led. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:@Torio,
Welcome aboard, I like the way you are thinking and arguing.
Your argument makes a lot of sense. I have always argued that human capital surpasses all other resources in the world. That it why the average Kenyan as you correctly put it in 1964 had no chance of competing with the Singaporean (who is basically a chinese immigrant) in commerce and investment growth.
The chinese have been engaged in organised nation building and trade since recorded history while the african/kenyan remains organised upto the clan level and probably went to school simply because the local missionary was insistent on getting anyone to learn to read and as they were the youngest (or weakest) child in a family and were not fit to herd cattle their father had no problem getting rid of them by sending them to school.
Given the same tools, the performance of the Kenyan leader would be dragged down by the collective mediocrity of the led while the Singaporean leader's performance will be raised by the high knowledge and expectations of the led. sawa, lets ask mr google to aid us in this human capital discussion. Quote:
As foreign investment poured in, Singapore began focusing on developing its human resources, in addition to its infrastructure. The country set up many technical schools and paid international corporations to train their unskilled workers in information technology, petrochemicals, and electronics. For those who could not get industrial jobs, the government enrolled them in labor intensive un-tradable services, such as tourism and transportation...
The leadership huko invested in human capital, its not that ati they had experts just waiting for favorable conditions. while our focus was on getting a few hundred rich kids into national schools, some other guys were already thinking of universal training and transfer of knowledge.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:@Torio,
Welcome aboard, I like the way you are thinking and arguing.
Your argument makes a lot of sense. I have always argued that human capital surpasses all other resources in the world. That it why the average Kenyan as you correctly put it in 1964 had no chance of competing with the Singaporean (who is basically a chinese immigrant) in commerce and investment growth.
The chinese have been engaged in organised nation building and trade since recorded history while the african/kenyan remains organised upto the clan level and probably went to school simply because the local missionary was insistent on getting anyone to learn to read and as they were the youngest (or weakest) child in a family and were not fit to herd cattle their father had no problem getting rid of them by sending them to school.
Given the same tools, the performance of the Kenyan leader would be dragged down by the collective mediocrity of the led while the Singaporean leader's performance will be raised by the high knowledge and expectations of the led. Are you saying that the Chinese had "formal" education before the white man? Excuses! The African was as educated as the avg Singaporean in the 60s uzembe plus lack of a defined focus is what made us lag behind "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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