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Kikuyus, Please Come (Here)
Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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The Clown wrote:I decided to post on this thread when I saw @seppuku parading his ignorance in public.
FYI there IS a Gikuyu alphabet. Just as there are English, French, Mandarin, Maragoli and Nandi ones.
I am one of those who studied in a native tongue in primary school so I happen to know a little about the language. Forgive my bluntness, but you are the one parading your ignorance, my friend. The Gikuyu language is written using the Latin alphabet, as are many other languages. If you studied language as you claim, I am sure you would know that what is under discussion here is not the alphabet but the orthography of the Gikuyu language. I believe the orthography of Gikuyu was set by Italian Missionaries, and later revised by the Irish and Scottish priests - at least I vaguely recall either Cannon Cagnolo or Whitely writing as much. This could explain how we came to inherit some Mediterranean vowels and consonants, like the bilabial fricative, 'b' in 'baba' - similar to the Spanish 'v' sound in say, Valencia, instead of the more common 'labial dental 'f'. Another example is the 'w' vowel sound as in Wainaina. If the French had done the Gikuyu orthography this would be written Ouainanina. Similarly nasal sounds like 'n' in Njeri, 'm' in Mbuthia, 'ny' as in Nyambura, the soft 'ng' in Ng'ang'a (or its hard variant), would have been lost if say the the Gikuyu orthography had been based on English (they don't have these sounds). As for the Ε© and Δ©, that one I leave to other experts. In fact Kenyatta tried to change this, for 'o' and 'e' respectively as it makes more sense. Clearly it didn't take. Regarding the difference in pronunciation there two Bantu language families, the 'ba' and the 'wa' family (I am plagiarizing Ochieng here) - owing to the influence of past migratory direction, time of arrival and consonant drift. Gikuyu, Kikamba, Swahili ( I think all Bantu languages on the Eastern seaboard) belong to the 'wa' family, which is why the people of Kenya are called, Wakenya, not Bakenya. By the way consonant drift provides persuasive proof that Gikuyu is a derivative of Kikamba. In fact the Gikuyu tribe is a recent creation - as recent as 200 years ago - created for 'political' reasons. (Some of the bigots from Nyumba ya Muumbi and elsewhere need to remember this). We are seeing a similar process of 'political' amalgamation among the Luyia and the Kalenjin today (the reverse process, as with the Miji Kenda, is more common). How this will influence the language remains to be seen. But I digress. @The clown, if you are pissed off, I challenge you to insult me in proto-Bantu. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/1/2010 Posts: 3,024 Location: Hapa
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the title of this thread should have been written in the 'gikuyu alphabet' .......   Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Aliπ
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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tresspassing luopean but eager to learn kyuopean.
who speaks the best kyuk?
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/1/2013 Posts: 106
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Wakanyugi wrote:
By the way consonant drift provides persuasive proof that Gikuyu is a derivative of Kikamba. In fact the Gikuyu tribe is a recent creation - as recent as 200 years ago - created for 'political' reasons. (Some of the bigots from Nyumba ya Muumbi and elsewhere need to remember this
Care to share more on this?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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The Clown wrote:I decided to post on this thread when I saw @seppuku parading his ignorance in public.
FYI there IS a Gikuyu alphabet. Just as there are English, French, Mandarin, Maragoli and Nandi ones.
I am one of those who studied in a native tongue in primary school so I happen to know a little about the language.
The language is Gikuyu. Non-Gikuyus will call it Kikuyu and that's due to the influence of Swahili.
An alphabet is about phonetics, reading and writing so you can't pick one one aspect and disregard the others.
Gikuyu alphabet has 21 letters (no f,l,p,q and x). There are also accents which modify the pronunciations of vowels such as 'i', 'o' and 'u'. Because I'm typing from an office keyboard ya wazungu I can't show you the accents here. But I have enabled them on my home computer.
To answer the OP, the 'f' in 'Kifaki' and 'fafa' is represented by the letter 'b' in writing.
'B' appearing alone is always pronounced as 'f'.
The 'b' sound in mboco (beans) is written as 'mb'. In fact, some Gikuyus wazees from Murang'a and Nyeri pronounce the 'm' in 'mb' like mburi, mbembe etc.
In short, Gikuyu differs from Swahili in that the pronunciation of the words is not literal. I believe the same is true of English, French and many other languages. That is just how they developed.
I do not think Gikuyus will be OK revising the alphabet as it will mean having to reprint all written material such as bibles, books and such. If you want to learn Qyuk, read this post SLOWLY. A perfect summery. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Siringi wrote:Kikuyu alphabet is fine just the way it is. It only happens to have 2 extra vowel sounds, the ì and the ù. So the vowelsare a, e,i , o, u, ì, ù.
To make it easier for non-kikuyu to pronounce names properly, some kikuyus replace the extra vowels with the "e" for ì and "o" for ù. For sxample, Nderitu for Ndìritù, mureithi for mùrìithi, Thuo for Thuù, etc.
There's no "ch", "sh" in kikuyu. Names such as Macharia are supposed to be spelt as macaria, cege for chege, wacira for wachira, etc. This also has got to do with people wanting to simplify pronunciation for non-kikuyu speakers, imagine one pronouncing macaria as makaria, like in kambas kyalo, most non-kambas will say kyalo instead of chalo. And this one too. Mark n record. I did vernacular in my formative years. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/19/2010 Posts: 1,308 Location: nairobi metropolitan
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Mukiri wrote:Wish I had anything of substance to contribute, sadly I'm 'born town' and speak pidgin Kikuyu. But 'Reminisce' with Mike Murimi(Not pronounced as written) makes for good practice... when they sing 'Gospel'  Of interest, is the difference between the pronounciation of 'No' Asha asa. And other similar words. Is it personal differences or is it regional, Kiambu Nyeri? I think, the pronunciation also depends on where? In Nakuru, it's not maxaria, it's masharia, cucu is shushu not xuxu. Democracy does not belong to the dead
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/7/2010 Posts: 728 Location: Wazuaville
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Zanze wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:
By the way consonant drift provides persuasive proof that Gikuyu is a derivative of Kikamba. In fact the Gikuyu tribe is a recent creation - as recent as 200 years ago - created for 'political' reasons. (Some of the bigots from Nyumba ya Muumbi and elsewhere need to remember this
Care to share more on this? @Wakanyugi, good thesis I see you paid attention in your linguistics class. However that assertion that Gikuyu is a recent dialect of Kikamba disturbs me. anthropological linguists (I think that's what they are called) claim that Gikuyu (and Kimeru among others) is one of the root dialects of Bantu, in other words the original Bantu from which other Bantu languages emerged and got 'diluted' through interaction with other languages. These scholars demonstrate this position by the fact that some words in Gikuyu are extinct in other Bantu languages e.g the word Magego for teeth is archaic almost extinct n Swahili and other Bantu languages but is the current Gikuyu word for teeth. Sorry can't give the references now its been long since I did linguistics, I veered off into a different world "Money never sleeps"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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Lolest! wrote:Mtublack wrote:Lolest! wrote:Money Whisperer wrote:The f in Kikuyu is not pronounced like the normal F. You place your lips as if to say B (a bilabial plosive) but allow air to flow through as you do with fricatives such as f hence baba not fafa. I still remember my Linguistics 101 class makofi kwangu  I dont get it. Kikuyus write baba but then read it as 'fafa' what came first the sounds or the alphabets na hakuna kikuyu its gikuyu(language) and Agikuyu( tribe or community) so don't know where kikuyus came from if you did your Gikuyu lessons well you know there is no F,L Q, S,V X and Z in the written language blame it on the people who introduced the written language some are actually absent from spoken Gikuyu. like V, Z and L! Avai wee!! Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/9/2009 Posts: 2,003
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Mukiri wrote:Wish I had anything of substance to contribute, sadly I'm 'born town' and speak pidgin Kikuyu. But 'Reminisce' with Mike Murimi(Not pronounced as written) makes for good practice... when they sing 'Gospel' Of interest, is the difference between the pronounciation of 'No' Asha asa. And other similar words. Is it personal differences or is it regional, Kiambu Nyeri? Aca is pronounced differently between Kiambu & Nyeri Agîkûyû. Those from Kiambu say ASA while the ones from Nyeri ASHA. Same applies to Cai- tea.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/24/2013 Posts: 185 Location: Diaspora
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@ Wakanyungi, sorry but I haven't understood your lengthy post.
The original poster (@nesta) asked: "Who came up with the Kikuyu alphabet?".
That's the question that I responded to and I think that's what this discussion is all about- the Gikuyu alphabet. I didn't see the word 'orthography' anywhere.
I studied the language in primary school and that much is clear in my first post. I'm quite happy to parade my ignorance, thank you.
I speak as a user of Gikuyu while you seem to have more of an academic interest in the tongue. So I can't find an appropriate insult in proto-Bantu, whatever that is.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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simonkabz wrote:Siringi wrote:Kikuyu alphabet is fine just the way it is. It only happens to have 2 extra vowel sounds, the ì and the ù. So the vowelsare a, e,i , o, u, ì, ù.
To make it easier for non-kikuyu to pronounce names properly, some kikuyus replace the extra vowels with the "e" for ì and "o" for ù. For sxample, Nderitu for Ndìritù, mureithi for mùrìithi, Thuo for Thuù, etc.
There's no "ch", "sh" in kikuyu. Names such as Macharia are supposed to be spelt as macaria, cege for chege, wacira for wachira, etc. This also has got to do with people wanting to simplify pronunciation for non-kikuyu speakers, imagine one pronouncing macaria as makaria, like in kambas kyalo, most non-kambas will say kyalo instead of chalo. And this one too. Mark n record. I did vernacular in my formative years. Why should southern kikuyu(note, not Kiambu but southern as Murang'a does same) pronounce Cege as Shege? It is Sege and Masaria!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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The Clown wrote:@ Wakanyungi, sorry but I haven't understood your lengthy post.
The original poster (@nesta) asked: "Who came up with the Kikuyu alphabet?".
That's the question that I responded to and I think that's what this discussion is all about- the Gikuyu alphabet. I didn't see the word 'orthography' anywhere.
I studied the language in primary school and that much is clear in my first post. I'm quite happy to parade my ignorance, thank you.
I speak as a user of Gikuyu while you seem to have more of an academic interest in the tongue. So I can't find an appropriate insult in proto-Bantu, whatever that is.
speaking of insults why is ngombe such a bad insult to wasaps I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Lolest! wrote:simonkabz wrote:Siringi wrote:Kikuyu alphabet is fine just the way it is. It only happens to have 2 extra vowel sounds, the ì and the ù. So the vowelsare a, e,i , o, u, ì, ù.
To make it easier for non-kikuyu to pronounce names properly, some kikuyus replace the extra vowels with the "e" for ì and "o" for ù. For sxample, Nderitu for Ndìritù, mureithi for mùrìithi, Thuo for Thuù, etc.
There's no "ch", "sh" in kikuyu. Names such as Macharia are supposed to be spelt as macaria, cege for chege, wacira for wachira, etc. This also has got to do with people wanting to simplify pronunciation for non-kikuyu speakers, imagine one pronouncing macaria as makaria, like in kambas kyalo, most non-kambas will say kyalo instead of chalo. And this one too. Mark n record. I did vernacular in my formative years. Why should southern kikuyu(note, not Kiambu but southern as Murang'a does same) pronounce Cege as Shege? It is Sege and Masaria! The large separation distance between different Gikuyu groups had some effect on accent. Indeed, when the white man set foot in Kenia around 1840s, the Gikuyu had already grown so large and could not be effectively governed from one center of power due to distance, thick vegetation in between and wild animals, etc thus limiting interaction Hence you hear of gaki, metumi and kabete. These were already growing into splinter sub-tribes just the same way embu, meru and all other Bantu had separated eons earlier. I stand to be collected.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/18/2007 Posts: 159 Location: Kenya
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Pidgin Kikuyu, let Njoro read this for us; ' Muturi alivyoona dog ana-bark, akaamua kubaki nyuma. ' Admin, Luckily; age will one day transform me into an Elder.
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Rank: User Joined: 9/6/2013 Posts: 1,446 Location: In a house
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kysse wrote:tresspassing luopean but eager to learn kyuopean.
who speaks the best kyuk?
 That's new to me.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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@ still,
kyuopean belongs to the dot.digital,mpesa,mpork,madvd generation.eg
kids be like' we live in 'ga-charage' #read'sharage'in english#
but we all know it 'GACHARAGE'.
Luopean is multiplying/icing/dressing spoken words especially where value is concerned.
sorry i just coined those.
ok lets move on with learning real kyuk.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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Lolest! wrote:simonkabz wrote:Siringi wrote:Kikuyu alphabet is fine just the way it is. It only happens to have 2 extra vowel sounds, the ì and the ù. So the vowelsare a, e,i , o, u, ì, ù.
To make it easier for non-kikuyu to pronounce names properly, some kikuyus replace the extra vowels with the "e" for ì and "o" for ù. For sxample, Nderitu for Ndìritù, mureithi for mùrìithi, Thuo for Thuù, etc.
There's no "ch", "sh" in kikuyu. Names such as Macharia are supposed to be spelt as macaria, cege for chege, wacira for wachira, etc. This also has got to do with people wanting to simplify pronunciation for non-kikuyu speakers, imagine one pronouncing macaria as makaria, like in kambas kyalo, most non-kambas will say kyalo instead of chalo. And this one too. Mark n record. I did vernacular in my formative years. Why should southern kikuyu(note, not Kiambu but southern as Murang'a does same) pronounce Cege as Shege? It is Sege and Masaria! Cege is not pronounced as sege. the c has a distinct pronunciation from s, I don't know how wakanyuhi would describe the sound...maybe dentohiss..he he B is also not pronounced as an f. In the b the teeth are not involved ,only the lips, but in f, both lips and teeth are involved.... Alphabets that don't exist in kikuyu are: f,l,p,q,s,v,x,z. Others that don't ever exist on their own are: D....exists only with n as in "nd" J.....exists only with n as in "nj" Hii ndio maana huwa inaleta shinda kwa shida na kushida shinda.
Na kunjaza tumbo ukiwa na jaa. "ππ‘KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder ππ " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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Lolest! wrote:simonkabz wrote:Siringi wrote:Kikuyu alphabet is fine just the way it is. It only happens to have 2 extra vowel sounds, the ì and the ù. So the vowelsare a, e,i , o, u, ì, ù.
To make it easier for non-kikuyu to pronounce names properly, some kikuyus replace the extra vowels with the "e" for ì and "o" for ù. For sxample, Nderitu for Ndìritù, mureithi for mùrìithi, Thuo for Thuù, etc.
There's no "ch", "sh" in kikuyu. Names such as Macharia are supposed to be spelt as macaria, cege for chege, wacira for wachira, etc. This also has got to do with people wanting to simplify pronunciation for non-kikuyu speakers, imagine one pronouncing macaria as makaria, like in kambas kyalo, most non-kambas will say kyalo instead of chalo. And this one too. Mark n record. I did vernacular in my formative years. Why should southern kikuyu(note, not Kiambu but southern as Murang'a does same) pronounce Cege as Shege? It is Sege and Masaria! Cege is not pronounced as sege. the c has a distinct pronunciation from s, I don't know how wakanyuhi would describe the sound...maybe dentohiss..he he B is also not pronounced as an f. In the b the teeth are not involved ,only the lips, but in f, both lips and teeth are involved.... Letters of the Alphabet that don't exist in kikuyu are: f,l,p,q,s,v,x,z. Others that don't ever exist on their own are: D....exists only with n as in "nd" J.....exists only with n as in "nj" Hii ndio maana huwa inaleta shinda kwa shida na kushida shinda.
Ama in kunjaza tumbo ukiwa na jaa. "ππ‘KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder ππ " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/24/2012 Posts: 331 Location: Vantage point
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@Wakanyuki, it will be worthwhile if you could change the title of this post to "Kenyans please come (here)" and have all communities share their tongue wrenchers/numbing of languages here
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