@Alph, I am the Man-God. The Creator of all things. Yet I am the destroyer of these very things.

This is correct. Do you remember Exodus 20:1-17?
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"


There is a misunderstanding here. WHy are you putting "words" in the mouth of the Quran? Why are you putting your own interpretation in brackets? The writer is picking this verse out of context, without quoting the whole story in the verses before.

Let me explain.

And very often the critics of Islam, even the Christian critics, and many writers who write books. They quote Sura 9 verse 5 that says "wherever you find an 'unbeliever', you kill them". And if you open the Quran, and if you read Chapter 9 verse 5 it does say "wherever you find an 'unbeliever', you kill him".
But it is a quotation out of context.
For the context, read a few verses previously.

The first verse of this chapter speaks about the peace treaty between the Muslims and the pagans/idolaters/disbelievers of Makah.
This peace treaty was broken by these disbelievers.
So God by the time He reaches verse 5, He gives ultimatum to the enemies, the disbelievers of Makkah, that you put things straight, in 4 months time, otherwise the declation of war.
In the battlefield, God says to the Muslims whenever you find the enemies, wherever you find the 'unbeliever', you kill them.

This verse of the Quran is talking about the battlefield.
When the Muslims are fighting for truth, against falsehood, against the enemy, if they come to attack you, don't get scared, kill them.
Any army general to boost the moral of the soldiers will say kill the enemies.
He will not say let the enemies go.
So Quran speaks the same.

And the critics, the writers after chapter 9 verse 5 jump to verse 7.
Any intelligent person knows that verse 6 has a reply to the allegation.
Verse 6 says if the enemies, if the Polytheists/pagans/idolaters/disbelievers want asylum, the refuge, don't just let them go, escort them to a lace of security, so that they will hear the Word Almighty God.

The most generous army general today will say let the enemy go.
Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says?

In short, there is great misconception as far as Jihad in Islam is concerned.
This misconception is not only among the non-Muslims, even among the Muslims.
They think that any war faught by any Muslim, for any reason, whether for person gain, whether be fame, whether be for money.
Jihad does not mean any war faught by Muslim. Jihad is not terrorism and Islam condems killing of innocent.

Jihad comes from the Arabic word Jahada, which means to strive, to struggle.
In Islamic context, there are many kinds of jihaad in Islam:
1). Jihad bin nafs – fight with your ownself that you wont do any sin, against ones own evil inclinations.
2). Jihad bil qalm — fight through a pen and tell non believers that islam want peace.
3). Jihad bil maal — if you can't fight and you are weak — spend money and buy armours for people who are fighting, to make the society better.
4). Jihad bil saif — fight for your rights in battle field for self defense.


This verse is also a part of the revelation chapter 9:1-37 and it has the same background as 9:5, which I have already discussed above.

However, in this verse there is inclusion of the "people of the Book" meaning the Christians and the Jews who were also living under the rule established by the Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

By the time 9:29 was revealed Zakat on all Muslims had become obligatory for those who had enough wealth to levy this "wealth purifying tax".

Zakat may be translated as wealth purifying tax or growth tax because the payment of Zakat makes wealth grow.

Muslims were already paying Zakat, in addition to Sadaqa (charity) and Infaq (required donations), for various causes but there was no such tax on non-Muslims.

The verse 9:29 makes tax obligatory upon all non-Muslims except the clergy, very old and poor without adequate income.

In fact, the very poor and very old began receiving maintenance money from the general welfare fund of the Muslim treasury.

Verse 9:29 requires non-Muslim population of the Muslim-run state to either accept Islam or pay tax or fight till death.
The fourth option, given without saying, is to migrate to another land.

The tax was much lower than the Zakat paid by the Muslims and its payment gave non-Muslims equal citizenship rights with the Muslims besides exempting them from military service.

This is the reason the tax has been translated as protection tax (giving full citizenship rights except becoming head of the state) and exemption tax (giving exemption from military service which was not given to the Muslims).

Payment of tax is a symbol of accepting to live under Islamic law; this is what it means to be subdued.
This is the same as the taxes all Kenyans or Americans for example have to pay.

You see, the verse says that the Jews are boasting that "We killed Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of God,"
- but they did not kill him,
- And they did bring him to his death upon the cross,
- but he was made to appear to them like one crucified;
- and you can see even 2000 years down the line, those who differ about this are certainly in a state of doubt about it;
- they are not sure about it, no certain knowledge, but only pursue a conjecture;
- and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it.

You can see it by yourself that the end of the life of Jesus on earth is as mysterous as his birth.
And do not forget indeed the greater part of his private life is mysterous, except the three main years of his ministry.
But by the authority of Quran, Muslims believe in Jesus:
- Muslims believe that he was born miraculously without any male intervention.
- They believe he gave life to the death with God's permission.
- They believe he healed those born blind & deaf with God's permission.
- They respect Jesus Christ as one of the mightiest messengers of God
- But he's not God and he's not a part of a trinity. Trinity does not exist.

These many doubts and conjectures among the early Christian sects and theologians is clear.
- The Orthodox-Christian Churches make it a cardinal point of their doctrine that his life was taken on the Cross
- This is a theological doctrine of blood sacrifice and what they call it atonement for sins, which is rejected by Islam.
- some early Christian sects did not believe that Christ was killed on the Cross.
- some believed that someone else was substituted for him.
- some held that Christ never had a real physical or natural body, but only an apparent or phantom body,
- The Marcionite Gospel (about A.C. 138) denied that Jesus was born, and merely said that he appeared in human form.
- The Gospel of St. Barnabas supported the theory of substitution on the Cross.

But, the Quran, has never been tampered with by people, it teaches us that Christ was not crucified nor killed by the Jews. That he was taken up to Allah.
There are a lot of proofs to show that Jesus did not die. I can show this to you if you want.

A prophet is a philosopher and historian whose agenda is to effect government.

His prophecy must always be contingent and his words are pearls smeared with culture and all her baggage.

Whenever the prophet speaks, Leviathan speaks, terror speaks. Merciful terror.

The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom.

As long as government and society are evolving then so must the prophecy.

I think this is an explanation for the apparent demise of the church and rise in Islamic militantcy.

As such, world peace can only be achieved when we consider world government, and not when we hide under Canon.

The present isn't demanding a reconciliation between the Christian and the Muslim, but a reconciliation of the many forces affecting the individual in a connected and multicultural world.

I wish you people could understand that matters of faith cannot be explained. They are not based on facts or any known truths. You have been indoctrinated to assume they are factual but you simply cannot defend them.

Having said that, can someone confirm the qur'an dropped from the skies and some pages were lost in the fall. @alphdoti what is the origin of this book according to your faith?

I took time to watch debates by a muslim named Ahmed Deedat. Not formally schooled but he totally outclassed the team of Christians with very high theological credentials. Available on youtube and quite interesting. The Christians and the bible have nothing on him.

Throwing the Bible or the Quran into the sea and finding out who will remember involves plenty of fallacy. In the first place we'd have to summon Jibril again to do the marking. But then again this is perhaps what should be done.

And even as we are contemplating to discard the books let us remember that the reigning religious symbols are the satellite dish and antennae. Our work is no longer that of memorizing but creation and interpretation.

As for the list of prophets let us add Karl Marx and perhaps Ortega y Gasset. I am sure there are more current ones of course so you can add to the list.

religion is all about faith, you choose what you believe - hakuna facts involved.

if it's a debate, then just highlight the positives of your religion wacha kuingilia religions zingine.

@Alph, you're taking me to school. Thank you, this is most informative. Now back to my question...



The sceptic in me is struggling with the the very beginning where you say it was revealed to the prophet. But that's a matter of faith not reason, there's nothing I can, or should, say to that.

What I do have to question is the next bit about the memorisation. History has shown as that as knowledge is passed down from one generation to the next it changes, grows, mutates, adapts, something gets lost in translation, so to speak. Its an imperfect process because we are imperfect beings, not photocopiers.

That said, I am investigating as you asked, this is from the wikipidea page, not the gospel (sorry) truth I know, but its a beginning.


I'm curious to know what questions you yourself have asked about the book, or do you simply accept it for the miracle you say it is?

The religion which most of us affiliate to is the one one our parents brought us up in and we also pass it on to our children. Even when we depart from it and live a life of paganism, we find ourselves going back to it later in life or even when one is being buried. The above contributors are defending the religions they were brought up in and i believe that if they they were born in another, they will still defend it. Bottom line is that matters on what religion should be left to our parents to argue.

It is still religion AND worst of ALL it is MOON WORSHIP!

Yahwe NEVER called us to worship him LEAST OF ALL crawl on all fours!


Yahuweh is God’s name

Yahuweh will always be God’s name, no matter who you are, what language you speak, or where you live. Yahuweh is the God who established the Covenant with Abraham.


Yahuweh is God’s name