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Housing Finance: HFCK a diamond in the rough
guru267
#21 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 5:47:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mwekez@ji wrote:
This year, interest rates have screwed banks so let us project a modest 40% growth.


HFCK EPS grew only 11% in q1 2012 so how is a 40% growth projection for the full year modest in anyway??

KCB EPS grew 35% in q1 2012 therefore i expect 30% growth for the full year.. Thats what i call modest..

Banks usually have similar growth throughout the year so if i were you I would be projecting 8-12% growth for HFCKs full year..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#22 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 11:25:05 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
mwekez@ji wrote:
Simplified wrote:
Applause a high of 16.50 today... and the trek up has just started...I wonder if 19 will print.Got 85% of my portfolio on this one


Drool This counter traded at 30 bob last year. Its highly undervalued and full of potential
And KQ traded at 140/- at some point.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#23 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 11:28:16 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
This year, interest rates have screwed banks so let us project a modest 40% growth.


HFCK EPS grew only 11% in q1 2012 so how is a 40% growth projection for the full year modest in anyway??

KCB EPS grew 35% in q1 2012 therefore i expect 30% growth for the full year.. Thats what i call modest..

Banks usually have similar growth throughout the year so if i were you I would be projecting 8-12% growth for HFCKs full year..
Excluding a takeover by Equity... I see 30 as a stretch.

HFCK has expensive deposits [small retail base] unlike Equity or BBK. The high borrowing rates will decrease the Net Interest Margin for HFCK.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mwekez@ji
#24 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:01:00 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
This year, interest rates have screwed banks so let us project a modest 40% growth.


HFCK EPS grew only 11% in q1 2012 so how is a 40% growth projection for the full year modest in anyway??

KCB EPS grew 35% in q1 2012 therefore i expect 30% growth for the full year.. Thats what i call modest..

Banks usually have similar growth throughout the year so if i were you I would be projecting 8-12% growth for HFCKs full year..
Excluding a takeover by Equity... I see 30 as a stretch.

HFCK has expensive deposits [small retail base] unlike Equity or BBK. The high borrowing rates will decrease the Net Interest Margin for HFCK.


Projecting can be quite subjective. For instance, I do not expect HF to replicate the Q1 growth all year round. Q1 could be similar with Q2 because not much has changed in economics of banking but i expect H2 to be different.

That said, Even if we we to project HF will grow by the VERY modest 10% this whole year, we get:

Forward EPS; 2.97
Forward P/E at the price of KES 16.5; 5.5

At the price of KES 30, we would still get a fair P/E of 10.1
Cde Monomotapa
#25 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:33:02 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Interesting.
Cde Monomotapa
#26 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 1:07:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Dear Kenyans, do contribute toward #BRINGZACKBACKHOME. In the longrun, it'll create Medical Tourism revenues for the country! #SocioCapital
guru267
#27 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 5:24:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mwekez@ji wrote:
That said, Even if we we to project HF will grow by the VERY modest 10% this whole year, we get:

Forward EPS; 2.97
Forward P/E at the price of KES 16.5; 5.5

At the price of KES 30, we would still get a fair P/E of 10.1


KCB projects a 40% growth in EPS in 2012..

Forward EPS is 5.2
Forward P/E is 4.3 at 23bob
At 55bob PE will be 10.1
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#28 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 9:05:41 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
mwekez@ji wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
This year, interest rates have screwed banks so let us project a modest 40% growth.


HFCK EPS grew only 11% in q1 2012 so how is a 40% growth projection for the full year modest in anyway??

KCB EPS grew 35% in q1 2012 therefore i expect 30% growth for the full year.. Thats what i call modest..

Banks usually have similar growth throughout the year so if i were you I would be projecting 8-12% growth for HFCKs full year..
Excluding a takeover by Equity... I see 30 as a stretch.

HFCK has expensive deposits [small retail base] unlike Equity or BBK. The high borrowing rates will decrease the Net Interest Margin for HFCK.


Projecting can be quite subjective. For instance, I do not expect HF to replicate the Q1 growth all year round. Q1 could be similar with Q2 because not much has changed in economics of banking but i expect H2 to be different.

That said, Even if we we to project HF will grow by the VERY modest 10% this whole year, we get:

Forward EPS; 2.97
Forward P/E at the price of KES 16.5; 5.5

At the price of KES 30, we would still get a fair P/E of 10.1
Then why not buy Equity or DTBK or Co-op? The growth rates & diverse business are much better. Also I think lower PERs.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#29 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 9:47:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
This year, interest rates have screwed banks so let us project a modest 40% growth.


HFCK EPS grew only 11% in q1 2012 so how is a 40% growth projection for the full year modest in anyway??

KCB EPS grew 35% in q1 2012 therefore i expect 30% growth for the full year.. Thats what i call modest..

Banks usually have similar growth throughout the year so if i were you I would be projecting 8-12% growth for HFCKs full year..
Excluding a takeover by Equity... I see 30 as a stretch.

HFCK has expensive deposits [small retail base] unlike Equity or BBK. The high borrowing rates will decrease the Net Interest Margin for HFCK.


Projecting can be quite subjective. For instance, I do not expect HF to replicate the Q1 growth all year round. Q1 could be similar with Q2 because not much has changed in economics of banking but i expect H2 to be different.

That said, Even if we we to project HF will grow by the VERY modest 10% this whole year, we get:

Forward EPS; 2.97
Forward P/E at the price of KES 16.5; 5.5

At the price of KES 30, we would still get a fair P/E of 10.1
Then why not buy Equity or DTBK or Co-op? The growth rates & diverse business are much better. Also I think lower PERs.


@VVS none of the banks youve mentioned above have much exposure to the mortgage biz in their own capacity (including equity bank) ..

You seem to have conveniently left out KCB from your list.. Any reason why?? Because i know you have talked of scandals rocking the company but dont you think these are in the past with the current turnaround strategy??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the deal
#30 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2012 9:49:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Where is the margin of safety in all this? You can't talk Mr Graham or Mr Buffet if you can't incorporate the margin of safety in your analysis.
VituVingiSana
#31 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 2:48:43 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:
mwekez@ji wrote:
This year, interest rates have screwed banks so let us project a modest 40% growth.


HFCK EPS grew only 11% in q1 2012 so how is a 40% growth projection for the full year modest in anyway??

KCB EPS grew 35% in q1 2012 therefore i expect 30% growth for the full year.. Thats what i call modest..

Banks usually have similar growth throughout the year so if i were you I would be projecting 8-12% growth for HFCKs full year..
Excluding a takeover by Equity... I see 30 as a stretch.

HFCK has expensive deposits [small retail base] unlike Equity or BBK. The high borrowing rates will decrease the Net Interest Margin for HFCK.


Projecting can be quite subjective. For instance, I do not expect HF to replicate the Q1 growth all year round. Q1 could be similar with Q2 because not much has changed in economics of banking but i expect H2 to be different.

That said, Even if we we to project HF will grow by the VERY modest 10% this whole year, we get:

Forward EPS; 2.97
Forward P/E at the price of KES 16.5; 5.5

At the price of KES 30, we would still get a fair P/E of 10.1
Then why not buy Equity or DTBK or Co-op? The growth rates & diverse business are much better. Also I think lower PERs.


@VVS none of the banks youve mentioned above have much exposure to the mortgage biz in their own capacity (including equity bank) ..

You seem to have conveniently left out KCB from your list.. Any reason why?? Because i know you have talked of scandals rocking the company but dont you think these are in the past with the current turnaround strategy??
I had enough examples & I like that MOO has shares in KCB.

Anyway, on KCB & lending decisions http://www.theeastafrica...-/10khsjwz/-/index.html

DN International (DNI), registered in Rwanda but run by Kenyan investor Nathan Lloyd, defaulted on the loan acquired in 2010 to construct a housing estate, prompting KCB to auction the facility. An auction planned for Thursday last week was stopped on site by the police.

DNI had taken out the loan to construct Green ark Villas, a development with 50 housing units in Rusororo on the outskirts of Kigali.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mwekez@ji
#32 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 9:43:31 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
the deal wrote:
Where is the margin of safety in all this? You can't talk Mr Graham or Mr Buffet if you can't incorporate the margin of safety in your analysis.


Give us the margin of safety
mwekez@ji
#33 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 9:56:09 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:

@VVS ..

You seem to have conveniently left out KCB from your list.. Any reason why?? Because i know you have talked of scandals rocking the company but dont you think these are in the past with the current turnaround strategy??
I had enough examples & I like that MOO has shares in KCB.

Anyway, on KCB & lending decisions

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke.../-/10khsjwz/-/index.html

DN International (DNI), registered in Rwanda but run by Kenyan investor Nathan Lloyd, defaulted on the loan acquired in 2010 to construct a housing estate, prompting KCB to auction the facility. An auction planned for Thursday last week was stopped on site by the police.

DNI had taken out the loan to construct Green ark Villas, a development with 50 housing units in Rusororo on the outskirts of Kigali.


KCB has a very tough resistance at KES 25
selah
#34 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:01:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
I dont think its fair to value HF against the Banks...They are so different in so many ways.

Most banks offer loans with a maximum repayment period of 5yrs while HF mortgages are 10-20 yrs so in-terms of liquidity HF is so illiquid with most of its fund tied in long term loans.

In-terms of profitability HF gains alot from fluctuations in CBR since 90% of Mortgages in the country are in variable rates as opposed to fixed rate...so they can vary their mortgage rates at will the only downside is the rise in cost of funds in the market.

The only challenge HF has is in sourcing for Cheap funds which currently is hard to get.Their current accounts can not be of any use given its high turnover of funds unless now they work with international banks which might expose them to foreign exchange risks.

'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
mwekez@ji
#35 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:36:17 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
selah wrote:
I dont think its fair to value HF against the Banks...They are so different in so many ways.


... but even by valuing it against the Banks, HF emerges a better investment on many metrics
mwekez@ji
#36 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:38:15 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
selah wrote:
The only challenge HF has is in sourcing for Cheap funds which currently is hard to get.Their current accounts can not be of any use given its high turnover of funds unless now they work with international banks which might expose them to foreign exchange risks.



They are making good steps on this

In May , they signed a $10 million (Sh850 million) bilateral term loan deal with London-based Ghana International Bank Plc. (GHIB)

They also recently signed a similar financing agreement for Sh2.2 billion with the European Investment Bank (EIB) to finance SMEs in the construction industry.

... and more are in the pipeline

The foreign currency risk is zeroed out by lending the foreign currency funds in foreign currency. … and fyi, many SMEs are demanding USD loans because they are cheaper than KES loans

All these funds will have a positive impact on H2 results.

I reiterate, HF is a diamond in the rough. Highly undervalued and with great potential
gohill
#37 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:57:29 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 182
Location: Kenya
http://media.ft.com/cms/...1-83a9-00144feabdc0.pdf

Quite inspiring for the gentle man
hisah
#38 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:57:49 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Interesting article on KE real estate - www.ventures-africa.com/...ate-sector-boom-or-doom/
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
hisah
#39 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2012 1:13:50 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
A real estate book on the KE market.

http://kariukiwaweru.wor...-law-the-logic-the-math/
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
guru267
#40 Posted : Thursday, July 26, 2012 6:09:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mwekez@ji wrote:
selah wrote:
I dont think its fair to value HF against the Banks...They are so different in so many ways.


... but even by valuing it against the Banks, HF emerges a better investment on many metrics


And yet again HFCK comes out the loser in terms of growth..

All you investors looking for mortgage exposure why not invest in Kenyas leading mortgage provider S&L Ltd
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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