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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Hmmm. Fair enough, Nabwire. Maybe I should not speak. What am I? What can I say? I am just an unenlightened plebeian. What point will my puny examples and similes give? So let me introduce my back up, Mr. Woodrow Wilson, the 28th president of the United States of America. Maybe he has some insights I don't have. I want to see you, Nabwire, argue against his contribution to this matter. Mr. Woodrow Wilson wrote a book, 'The New Freedom'. In it he made interesting points that are relevant to this debate. Quote:There is something very new and very big and very complex about these new relations of capital and labor. A new economic society has sprung up, and we must effect a new set of adjustments. We must not pit power against weakness. The employer is generally, in our day, as I have said, not an individual, but a powerful group; and yet the workingman when dealing with his employer is still, under our existing law, an individual. Quote:I want to record my protest against any discussion of this matter which would seem to indicate that there are bodies of our fellow-citizens who are trying to grind us down and do us injustice. There are some men of that sort. I don't know how they sleep o' nights, but there are men of that kind. Thank God, they are not numerous. The truth is, we are all caught in a great economic system which is heartless. The modern corporation is not engaged in business as an individual. When we deal with it, we deal with an impersonal element, an immaterial piece of society. Quote:We have come upon a very different age from any that preceded us. We have come upon an age when we do not do business in the way in which we used to do business,--when we do not carry on any of the operations of manufacture, sale, transportation, or communication as men used to carry them on. There is a sense in which in our day the individual has been submerged. In most parts of our country men work, not for themselves, not as partners in the old way in which they used to work, but generally as employees,--in a higher or lower grade,--of great corporations. There was a time when corporations played a very minor part in our business affairs, but now they play the chief part, and most men are the servants of corporations. Quote:You know what happens when you are the servant of a corporation. You have in no instance access to the men who are really determining the policy of the corporation. If the corporation is doing the things that it ought not to do, you really have no voice in the matter and must obey the orders, and you have oftentimes with deep mortification to co-operate in the doing of things which you know are against the public interest. Your individuality is swallowed up in the individuality and purpose of a great organization. Quote:Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something.They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it. Quote:They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as his abilities enable him to pursue it; because to-day, if he enters certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut from under him and the markets shut against him. There, I could go on and on quoting him. He had the advantage of being in the most advantageous position to survey the scene. But I will be boring. So, what say you, Nabwire, about this matter? Do you think they, corporations, banks included, have your best interests at heart? Get the snippets here: Execerpts from the New FreedomAnd download the entire book here and swallow the pill therein- The New Freedom
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Please note that I am not interested in just winning debates or showing off, the very essence of a good debate is to learn in the process. My aim in this post is to debunk myths about Wallstreet, interesting you tell me to take the red pill, I am the only person on earth who has not watched The Matrix, but I get the reference and I am trying to get you to takethe red pill too and realize the wonder and glory of Wallstreet....hahaha.
I havent even read your retort coz unfortunately you chose my least favorite President!!! I will have you know that Woodrow Wilson was a Klansman, as in he was sworn into KKK membership in the Whitehouse!!! How gangsta is that? So just due to this small fact, I dont take anything he says or stands for seriously, sorry!! You should have quoted my idol RFK I would definetely convert to Socialism or whatever it is you believe in. Google Birth of a nation for more, or Woodrow Wilson KKK, take your red pill!!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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I actually think your arguments held more water than Mr. Wilson's! Seems like he is just ranting about the disadvantages of being an employee. Wallstreet has never denied that greed is looked on highly, it is just business after all. If you learn how they operate then you can get out of the rat race. Problem is people want to blame Wallstreet for the rat race yet they are not willing to take steps to get out of it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Nabwire wrote:Please note that I am not interested in just winning debates or showing off, I agree with you that the essence of a good debate is to learn in the process. That is why presumptions such as this are totally uncalled for: Nabwire wrote: ...He/she got that home based on greed so he can show it off to his friends, host alot of parties and be the envy of everyone, now that he is being foreclosed on, he conveniently plays the victim.
What was the point of that? Trying to make the individual homeowner falter and be unsure of his take on the matter? Secondly, what is it with Kenyans? Why is this politicians' habit and its variations & morphs are so entrenched? Whats this about running back to your people for protection when it is convenient to do so without tackling the issues? So you want to use the race card to support your arguments? You want to discuss President Wilsons' character and habits? Nabwire, lets keep the main thing the main thing. There will be another different forum for us to dissect his character, morality, and whatever else even his love life if you so want. I have read 'birth of a nation' as you wanted but I will comment on it in that forum, not here. Secondly, I am sorry, I did not know that you read only and mull over perspectives from your favorite politicians. But then again if President Wilson is your least favorite politician, why dont you simply debunk his 'rants'? At least, didnt your favorite politicians give favorable quotes to show the fallacy of President Wilsons' rants? Surely that should and will be easy. Thirdly, Nabwire wrote:Wallstreet has never denied that greed is looked on highly, it is just business after all. Isnt that my point, Nabwire? Surely! Are you now agreeing with me on this single pivotal point? As for the other part: Quote:Problem is people want to blame Wallstreet for the rat race yet they are not willing to take steps to get out of it. That is true, I agree with you, people want to blame wallstreet. Is it because wallstreet is part of the problem? Is it because wallstreet looks highly on greed? If they have any other ulterior motives & reasons besides this, I would not know that now, would I? Nabwire wrote:My aim in this post is to debunk myths about Wallstreet,..........I havent even read your retort coz unfortunately you chose my least favorite President!!!.............I dont take anything he says or stands for seriously, sorry!! ... How can you debunk myths if you dont read them in the first place? The myth here is that wallstreet looks highly on greed. You have only so far only pointed to other people that they are also involved.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Seems like you take this much more seriously than I do. We are clearly on opposite poles so to avoid further angst, I will end this debate though I dont know how I pulled the race card, was just stating facts.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Mtu Biz wrote:Very well put together.
Now back home ....2 questions.
1. Apart from the repayment of IMF/World bank loans, is our shilling free money or debt money?
2. why did the government opt to become a 40% shareholder in the local currency printing company de la rue?
Are we being set up for debt money ?
Naomba kujibiwa hilo swali tafadhali...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Ron Paul 1988 interview on the American Power Structure. http://www.youtube.com/w...zu4&feature=related
Very revealing.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Majambazi even in hospitalsIf Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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