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Overpopulation - the fallacy
nakujua
#21 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2014 10:54:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
murchr wrote:
nakujua wrote:
murchr wrote:
nakujua wrote:
murchr wrote:
kyt wrote:
kwani how do Americans live? such that we will require 12 planets?


Large. They value personal space.

around 80% of americans live in cities, i.e suburban dwellings and appartments.


Have you been in a TYPICAL American suburb or apartment? What you call apartments here are flats or what Americans would call "projects" Those who live in the suburbs dont share walls

no I have never been to a typical american suburb or apartment, why do you ask ?


Then you have no idea what the conversation here is all about

So, again why did you ask the question. I just stated a fact from an American census result, 20% live in the spacious expansive farms and ranches, while the rest live in the urban areas.smile

kyt
#22 Posted : Sunday, December 28, 2014 2:44:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
how are their apartments?
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
jaggernaut
#23 Posted : Sunday, December 28, 2014 4:31:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
kyt wrote:
how are their apartments?


Like this....

murchr
#24 Posted : Sunday, December 28, 2014 5:15:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
jaggernaut wrote:
kyt wrote:
how are their apartments?


Like this....



houston

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
kyt
#25 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 10:43:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
murchr wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
kyt wrote:
how are their apartments?


Like this....



houston


si hizi apartments zinakaa tu zile za kinoo?
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
AlphDoti
#26 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 11:31:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Can we use acres or "proti" metrics? This square-metres stuff is foreign to some of us d'oh!
jaggernaut
#27 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 11:38:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
kyt wrote:
murchr wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
kyt wrote:
how are their apartments?


Like this....



houston

[img]https://propimages.apartments.com/101959/378/BL010164.JPG

si hizi apartments zinakaa tu zile za kinoo?


Kwanza these ones look like they are built on plots smaller than 30x60 ft.
AlphDoti
#28 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 11:51:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
In my opinion, we waste a lot of resources. Mother nature has so much for all of us, water is 70% of earth, solar energy plenty, land is massive etc

Na mashinani, you should see how much land is idle! Sometimes, land is in the hands of only a few!
kyt
#29 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 12:33:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
wacha watu wa live large, alpha, you only live once, hii nchi si ya mama yako bwana smile smile
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
kyt
#30 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 12:37:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
the only thing that the west has above us, is infrastructure, before houses come in, roads come in; elec comes in, water comes in, sewerage comes in, postal services, cable, internet, the works!! huku ni vice-versa. hapo ndio shida inakuwanga, planning is good for the quality of life in a residence.
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
quicksand
#31 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 2:45:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
kyt wrote:
the only thing that the west has above us, is infrastructure, before houses come in, roads come in; elec comes in, water comes in, sewerage comes in, postal services, cable, internet, the works!! huku ni vice-versa. hapo ndio shida inakuwanga, planning is good for the quality of life in a residence.


Nope. It is ethics. We have little to none. Ethics sit at the core of societal progress. Infrastructure is a result of human work and resources. Resources require discipline to be channeled properly, and we are in severe want of discipline. In the sixties, Kenya and South East Asia countries like S Korea, Malaysia, Singapore were roughly on the same economic footing; Now, those places are economic powerhouses due to hard work, focus and the famous Asian honesty, while we have cannibalised ourselves through corruption and tribal politics. The sad thing we can't unyoke ourselves. This generation of Kenyans is doomed to myopic endeavours and basic subsistence until we all die off and are completely replaced by better informed, more accepting, less tribal and more focused people; Probably the children of our children. Pity.
murchr
#32 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 3:19:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
kyt wrote:
the only thing that the west has above us, is infrastructure, before houses come in, roads come in; elec comes in, water comes in, sewerage comes in, postal services, cable, internet, the works!! huku ni vice-versa. hapo ndio shida inakuwanga, planning is good for the quality of life in a residence.


Hakuna kiosk kwa gate badaye. That sums up everything
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Kaigangio
#33 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 4:02:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@kyt

It is very sad that the members are giving you very little information on what you had asked for. Of course there are many things to consider when we say that a certain amount of space will be required if we were to live some other people's standards elsewhere...

Since numbers don't lie, I will give you a very simple example based on water resource...

here we go...

In US from the latest available water draw data, the following is a schedule of how Americans live large on this water resource in litres per day:

1. Public Supply = 239,927.0 million litres per day

2. Domestic = 19,892.3 million litres per day

3. Irrigation = 759,121.1 million litres per day

4. Livestock = 9,752.2 million litres per day

5. Aquaculture = 20,501.8 million litres per day

6. Industrial = 109,158.3 million litres per day

7. Mining = 19,338.2 million litres per day

8. Thermoelectric = 1,080,501.0 million litres per day

Total Volume = 2,258,191.9 Million litres per day

Next current population of United States of America = 316 million

Water usage per day per capita = 2,258,191.9m l/d / 316m

= 7146.2 litres/day/capita

Back to Kenya

Supposing we are using the same amount of water per capita per day in Kenya with a population of 40 million people

Then total amount of water needed to satisfy the requirement is therefore

= 7146.2 litres/day/capita x 40m = 285,848 million litres per day

Volume of water required per year = 285,848m l/d x 365 days

= 104,334,520 million litres per year

From the available data on water availability in Kenya, the country is sub divided into five zones known as drainage basins which have the following established water output capacities per year.

1. Lake Victoria basin = 11,672,000 million litres per year

2. Rift Valley Basin = 2,784,000 million litres per year

3. Athi River Basin = 1,152,000 million litres per year

4. tana River Basin = 3,744,000 million litres per year

5. Ewaso Ng'iro Basin = 339,000 million litres per year

6. Ground Water = 600,000 million litres per year

Total amount of water 20,292,000 million litres per year

In short the maximum amount of water that Kenya can produce in any given year is on average 20,292,000 million litres per year!!!!

But if we changed our standards to the US on water usage we will need

104,334,520 million litres per year

We will therefore need 104,334,520m l/y /20,292,000m l/y = 5.14 Kenya countries to satisfy the new demand.

We will therefore need 6 Kenyas with similar climatic conditions, drainage patterns, relief, river distributions etc to provide us with water to US's per capita demand!!!!

That is just water resource alone...extend this to all the sectors of economy and you will be amazed at how many Kenyas we will need, perhaps 1000 Kenyas.

Too much for you huh!!!



...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
kyt
#34 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 4:31:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
I can't say its too much kiangio; kwani US hiyo maji is it all rain fed? I think no! they have had to supplement, how much water goes to waste every rainy season. if that was harvested. we may even export water to uganda or somalia. planning is key, PLANNING! ! FORESIGHT is lacking in kenyan culture.
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
Alba
#35 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 4:54:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
quicksand wrote:
kyt wrote:
the only thing that the west has above us, is infrastructure, before houses come in, roads come in; elec comes in, water comes in, sewerage comes in, postal services, cable, internet, the works!! huku ni vice-versa. hapo ndio shida inakuwanga, planning is good for the quality of life in a residence.


Nope. It is ethics. We have little to none. Ethics sit at the core of societal progress. Infrastructure is a result of human work and resources. Resources require discipline to be channeled properly, and we are in severe want of discipline. In the sixties, Kenya and South East Asia countries like S Korea, Malaysia, Singapore were roughly on the same economic footing; Now, those places are economic powerhouses due to hard work, focus and the famous Asian honesty, while we have cannibalised ourselves through corruption and tribal politics. The sad thing we can't unyoke ourselves. This generation of Kenyans is doomed to myopic endeavours and basic subsistence until we all die off and are completely replaced by better informed, more accepting, less tribal and more focused people; Probably the children of our children. Pity.


Agree

One cause of our lack of ethics is tribalism. Our leaders have brainwashed Kenyans into thinking that tribal allegiance is the most important thing. Therefore Kenyans must their fellow tribesmen regardless of how incompetent they are as leaders.
Kaigangio
#36 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 5:00:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
kyt wrote:
I can't say its too much kiangio; kwani US hiyo maji is it all rain fed? I think no! they have had to supplement, how much water goes to waste every rainy season. if that was harvested. we may even export water to uganda or somalia. planning is key, PLANNING! ! FORESIGHT is lacking in kenyan culture.


You don't seem to get it. To start with, all that water that US uses is rainfed and melting snow with little contribution from underground...

You see for your information we are only upgrading our standard from the paltry 75.1 litres per day per person to 7146 litres per day per person.We are assuming in our case that all that is being abstructed is used 100% (no wastage or leakage).

At the new water resource standard requirements of 7146 litres per day per person the available water resources can only cater for:

20,292,000m l/y /(7146 l/d x 365) = 7.78 million people per year!!! Now, how about the other 33 million!!!

This means that our water resources cannot sustain a per capita demand equivalent to that of US...

Very sad huh!!
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
kyt
#37 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 5:11:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
as it stands kiagio, we currently have 250BN cubic, yes with a B, meters of water. Now going by your estimate, we only require .2 billion cubic metres of water per year. to exhaust that water, we will need 1500 years!! that is 13 generations, kiagio! 13!! foresight is the lacking ingredient. we are busy chasing technopolis and industrial park while basic commodity is lacking. lakini hata wewe kiagio, 7000 litres per day unafanyia nini? kwani niko na ngamia 100 kwa nyumba?
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
kyt
#38 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 5:13:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
so kiagio, I get it, usifikri si get, I get it very well and I hope my above post has shed some light. nakupata vizuri sana..
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
Kaigangio
#39 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 5:48:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
kyt wrote:
as it stands kiagio, we currently have 250BN cubic, yes with a B, meters of water. Now going by your estimate, we only require .2 billion cubic metres of water per year. to exhaust that water, we will need 1500 years!! that is 13 generations, kiagio! 13!! foresight is the lacking ingredient. we are busy chasing technopolis and industrial park while basic commodity is lacking. lakini hata wewe kiagio, 7000 litres per day unafanyia nini? kwani niko na ngamia 100 kwa nyumba?


You still don't get it!

The maximum amount of water at Kenya's disposal per year is only 20,291,000 million litres per year which is equivalent to 20,291 million cubic metres per year which is equivalent to 20.29 Billion cubic metres per year...

You (Kenyans) are able to abstract an amount equal to 5.4% or 1096 million cubic metres per year...

The per capita availability based on the abstraction value is therefore 1,096,000 million litres per year/40 million people = 27,400 litres/year per capita = 75.1 litres/day/capita!!!!!!!

With that per capita availability it makes you one of the most water poor people on earth!!!!

The other issue is usage of water at 7000 litres per day per capita...it is happening in the USA at their current level of industrialisation and demographic status coupled with their current living standards....

We also have some European countries approaching that per capita daily water consumption.
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
murchr
#40 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2014 6:51:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Kaigangio wrote:
kyt wrote:
as it stands kiagio, we currently have 250BN cubic, yes with a B, meters of water. Now going by your estimate, we only require .2 billion cubic metres of water per year. to exhaust that water, we will need 1500 years!! that is 13 generations, kiagio! 13!! foresight is the lacking ingredient. we are busy chasing technopolis and industrial park while basic commodity is lacking. lakini hata wewe kiagio, 7000 litres per day unafanyia nini? kwani niko na ngamia 100 kwa nyumba?


You still don't get it!

The maximum amount of water at Kenya's disposal per year is only 20,291,000 million litres per year which is equivalent to 20,291 million cubic metres per year which is equivalent to 20.29 Billion cubic metres per year...

You (Kenyans) are able to abstract an amount equal to 5.4% or 1096 million cubic metres per year...

The per capita availability based on the abstraction value is therefore 1,096,000 million litres per year/40 million people = 27,400 litres/year per capita = 75.1 litres/day/capita!!!!!!!

With that per capita availability it makes you one of the most water poor people on earth!!!!

The other issue is usage of water at 7000 litres per day per capita...it is happening in the USA at their current level of industrialisation and demographic status coupled with their current living standards....

We also have some European countries approaching that per capita daily water consumption.



Ohh come on shurrup!!! How can you compare Kenya a size of 582 650 SQ KMs to the US who's size is 9.857 million square kms
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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