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KenGen - Just how low can it go?
Cde Monomotapa
#21 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 4:46:02 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
mwanahisa wrote:
KenGen aint a monkey, and I never said it is. In the long run KenGen will make you money but one could have said the same when KenGen was trading at Kshs 19. And in the long run I can mention at least 10 other companies that I believe will make me a lot more money than KenGen.

For now, I am thinking in the short term. I am seeing some opportunity in KenGen - just trying to determine the point at which I strike. I can almost smell it. It's that close. No long term position for me in this. Just imagine if I bought it tomorrow at 11.50 and it gets back to 15. I will be out with my money while leaving those whose average price is 15 still holding on, waiting for the long term.

I knew I was talking to a trader...who in his trasversing is probably in a net-loss position. Lol!!
mukiha
#22 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 4:46:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
mwanahisa wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
1. Kengen alone can't power Vision 2030 (unless u want a time-lag) 2. What better business than one expanding into an undersupplied market (all new out-put is taken up). 3. KPLC is making 200K* new connex p.a (penetration @25% and growing-highrises/real estate, R.E.P). I surely have every reason to own this Co.and have deep sleep while U worry about a price that i'm glad to buy cheaper smile


See, I knew you could do better. But the question is does KenGen actually have the power to supply the underserved market?

Sure KPLC's connections are rising but just how much of the supply is coming from KenGen? Other than the new KIPEVU thermal commissioned earlier this year (or was it?), what additional power has KenGen brought into the grid? And isn't this somewhat negated by the drop (or anticipated drop) in the hydropower throughput as the drought continues to rage on?


Here is your answer: http://www.kengen.co.ke/...ess&subpage=current

There you will find a list of all projects done and planned in the last 3 years and in the next 3, respectively
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mwanahisa
#23 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 4:47:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
There has been drought in Eastern but not in Central, Rift & Western. The country's drainage flows from West to South (Tana) & finally into the Ocean. The rest of ur questions I will refer U to the Annual report, Half year commentary or let's just wait for the full year (it is better U find out for yourself what new capacity has come on stream in the last 2 FYs.)


Cde, I wanted to avoid the extra work looking for those figures, especially when I am not looking at staying in the stock for too long, but I will look into it. I remember that the half year profitability figures were none too impressive.
mwanahisa
#24 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 4:49:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
mukiha wrote:
Here is your answer: http://www.kengen.co.ke/...ess&subpage=current

There you will find a list of all projects done and planned in the last 3 years and in the next 3, respectively


Mukiha, thanks a heap!
Cde Monomotapa
#25 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 5:00:40 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
@Mwanahisa. Do you have any long holdings? If yes, which ones.
mkonomtupu
#26 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 5:10:45 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
eps 0.89 a p/e of 10= kshs.8.9 fair value for a trader in this market but long term it will be a great company maybe 2018 onwards. I don't have that time horizon in mind so i have reduced it.

Mr. Market is just quoting the figure it's up to you if you want to deal or you can ignore Mr. Market if you believe in the fundamentals
mwanahisa
#27 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 5:24:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
@Mwanahisa. Do you have any long holdings? If yes, which ones.


Indeed I do. I hold KQ, Equity Bank, KCB, Jubilee, Centum, KK, Cititrust, WTK and Limuru Tea as my long positions.

I however lighten these positions whenever there is a ramp up in the price and I can foresee drops (read that as making an educated guess) even in those long term stocks. I then buy back my positions at lower prices whenever possible. Of all the above positions, the only ones I have not touched in a while are the AIMS as it is usually hard to get them back.

Besides these positions, I frequently trade speculatively on any opportunities that come about, with about 25% of my capital. I also ensure that I have at least 10-15% of my portfolio in cash at practically all times, unless the market is extremely bullish.

I will not pretend never to have lost money on my speculative trades, for I have and I am sure I will CONTINUE to do so. On the whole however, my success rate is higher than my losses. On my speculative positions, I am usually prepared to lose money. I am fairly ruthless in instituting stop loss levels but overall this has saved me bigger losses.
Cde Monomotapa
#28 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 5:29:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
mwanahisa wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
@Mwanahisa. Do you have any long holdings? If yes, which ones.


Indeed I do. I hold KQ, Equity Bank, KCB, Jubilee, Centum, KK, Cititrust, WTK and Limuru Tea as my long positions.

I however lighten these positions whenever there is a ramp up in the price and I can foresee drops (read that as making an educated guess) even in those long term stocks. I then buy back my positions at lower prices whenever possible. Of all the above positions, the only ones I have not touched in a while are the AIMS as it is usually hard to get them back.

Besides these positions, I frequently trade speculatively on any opportunities that come about, with about 25% of my capital. I also ensure that I have at least 10-15% of my portfolio in cash at practically all times, unless the market is extremely bullish.

I will not pretend never to have lost money on my speculative trades, for I have and I am sure I will CONTINUE to do so. On the whole however, my success rate is higher than my losses. On my speculative positions, I am usually prepared to lose money. I am fairly ruthless in instituting stop loss levels but overall this has saved me bigger losses.

Gracias.
mwanahisa
#29 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 5:29:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
I knew I was talking to a trader...who in his trasversing is probably in a net-loss position. Lol!!


BTW @Cde, before 2008 I was a great believer in buy and hold but when the market changes I had to change with it. While I still believe in the long term story of the stock market, I do what I can to mitigate the impact of severe drops in the prices of even those counters that have the best of fundamentals.
Cde Monomotapa
#30 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 5:56:31 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
mwanahisa wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
I knew I was talking to a trader...who in his trasversing is probably in a net-loss position. Lol!!


BTW @Cde, before 2008 I was a great believer in buy and hold but when the market changes I had to change with it. While I still believe in the long term story of the stock market, I do what I can to mitigate the impact of severe drops in the prices of even those counters that have the best of fundamentals.

Ok.
mwanahisa
#31 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 6:22:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Back to KenGen, their 2010-11 H1 commentary appears to bear you out in so far as power supply, especially the hydro position is concerned. I note that KenGen reported a 61% increase in unit sales between Dec 2009 and Dec 2010.

KIPEVU II, 120 MW; and Wellhead Technology, 5 MW were to be commissioned in March 2011. Tana additional 20 MW was also ready for commissioning in March. If all this came to pass, KenGen would certainly appear to have been able to supply more power in 2011 vis-a-vis 2010.

Of course, I have also noted that costs also increased significantly esp. due to additional depreciation and financing costs.

All said and done, it looks like the price may have dropped sufficiently for my short term play. The share has certainly been punished heavily.

Now where are the technicians to support/dispute my intuition? QW, Hisah, SPT come on!
Aguytrying
#32 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 6:56:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
mwanahisa wrote:
Back to KenGen, their 2010-11 H1 commentary appears to bear you out in so far as power supply, especially the hydro position is concerned. I note that KenGen reported a 61% increase in unit sales between Dec 2009 and Dec 2010.

KIPEVU II, 120 MW; and Wellhead Technology, 5 MW were to be commissioned in March 2011. Tana additional 20 MW was also ready for commissioning in March. If all this came to pass, KenGen would certainly appear to have been able to supply more power in 2011 vis-a-vis 2010.

Of course, I have also noted that costs also increased significantly esp. due to additional depreciation and financing costs.

All said and done, it looks like the price may have dropped sufficiently for my short term play. The share has certainly been punished heavily.

Now where are the technicians to support/dispute my intuition? QW, Hisah, SPT come on!


@Mwanahisa. After it fell from 15.60 to 13.70, i jumped in ( as a trader, for the rebound- u know how we do!).

But alas the thing has been heavily punished further since. Honestly im surprised it has come this low.

The last one year low was 12.95, and i thought that's where it would bottom out or there abouts.
I normally get weary when im trading a stock and it goes below where it normally bounces from. that said, i would be very surprised(read as fingers crossed) if it would go any lower. whatever happened to co-op,am hoping will happen to this.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
Cde Monomotapa
#33 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 7:05:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Look for KGN's extended version of H1 results on the NSE website (hoping it is still there) and look at the cash-flow statement.
the deal
#34 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 10:01:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Rule 1: Never get married to a stock least it turns out to be a monkey

Rule 2: Never forget Rule 1.
mwanahisa
#35 Posted : Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:36:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
I reviewed all the material I could get on KenGen yesterday, including the PIBO prospectus. My verdict was that I am still unconvinced on KenGen joining my all star long term portfolio. But I will be happy to make some opportunistic money, on it all factors considered. My stop loss has been set at between 11.00 - 11.50, in case it bombs.

I have therefore plunged in this morning from a price of 11.90 but I will probably go all the way to 12. This is a fairly small play on my part but if I play it right, it should still be worth some nice cheddar.
mwanahisa
#36 Posted : Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:55:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
The opporunity didn't last long now did it? I should have spent time buying it yesterday instead of debating it with a lawyer. But I got the bit I wanted.
Cde Monomotapa
#37 Posted : Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:26:42 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
mwanahisa wrote:
The opporunity didn't last long now did it? I should have spent time buying it yesterday instead of debating it with a lawyer.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Aguytrying
#38 Posted : Friday, July 22, 2011 9:39:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
the deal wrote:
Rule 1: Never get married to a stock least it turns out to be a monkey

Rule 2: Never forget Rule 1.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly . nice one.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
alutacontinua
#39 Posted : Saturday, July 23, 2011 9:52:51 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 304
Currently trading around IPO price :( price but I would defiantly put this stock on my watch list mostly due to the fact of the increased electrical demand the country is expecting to have and as someone mentioned earlier in a thread…the power of a carbon credit cheque.

Heres a link to a project they have failed to mention on the site:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5THThSuOPw - A wind farm to inject 300MW (or more) of power into the national grid. This plus projected 7k MW from geothermal plants in Rift Valley boils down to a fat annual carbon credit cheque thus improved earnings which should show in the share price but in this market who knows……..(just my 2 shillings worth)

Interesting to note that KPLC have already set up 2 wind turbines in the town and am sure will also be gunning for carbon credit points. Any correlation between KPLC and KENGEN????? (gave this a shot and the following graph came about: http://www.mystocks.co.ke/s25/20110722)
You dont have to be great to START but you have to start to be GREAT!!!!!!!!
Cde Monomotapa
#40 Posted : Saturday, July 23, 2011 10:50:57 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
alutacontinua wrote:
Currently trading around IPO price :( price but I would defiantly put this stock on my watch list mostly due to the fact of the increased electrical demand the country is expecting to have and as someone mentioned earlier in a thread…the power of a carbon credit cheque.

Heres a link to a project they have failed to mention on the site:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5THThSuOPw - A wind farm to inject 300MW (or more) of power into the national grid. This plus projected 7k MW from geothermal plants in Rift Valley boils down to a fat annual carbon credit cheque thus improved earnings which should show in the share price but in this market who knows……..(just my 2 shillings worth)

Interesting to note that KPLC have already set up 2 wind turbines in the town and am sure will also be gunning for carbon credit points. Any correlation between KPLC and KENGEN????? (gave this a shot and the following graph came about: http://www.mystocks.co.ke/s25/20110722)

!! THAT WAS ME !! About C.Credit chq.s...so many annual biliions to be earned just to sell AIR by a company (KGN) whose core business is firmly supported by an already evolving blue print (Vision 2030). This is such a no-brainer!!
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