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Building costs vs 6 months ago
Rank: New-farer Joined: 3/15/2011 Posts: 33 Location: Nairobi
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I agree here that there is something wrong with contractors in Kenya.
A lot of inefficiencies in the supply chain is passed on to clients just like that.
That's why you see some obnoxious house prices being quoted all over.
Am just about to finish a 4 bedroom Maisonette with garage Approx 270SqM (standard compact design) for 4.5m which should work out to 17K per square meter.
Followed an advice posted here last year on the same
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/6/2010 Posts: 97 Location: nairobi, kenya
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@Siafu: the tender is opening on Thursday so will let you know of the outcome. @earthvoice: I don't think it would be fair for me to give out details about contractors on a public forum, however if you provide me with your e.mail i would be glad to share them with you. @Matatamingi: it should cost you between 20000-25000 for a stand alone bungalow, this cost is for a well finished bungalow i.e imported tiles, pitched stone finish etc. @SAC Cohen: The luxury apartments are around 325sqm, 4 bedroom all ensuite, with german bathrooms (Hansgrohe) and kitchens (Nobilia). Spanish tiles in the common areas, a choice of floor finishes for the main apartment, decorative paints and so on. external amenities include: large swimming pool, party hall, 3 parking's per apartment, integrated security system, elevators, generator, borehole etc. The price seems high but i think its justified given the high quality of finishes e.g a single toilet set costs around 75,000. For this particular project i've sold all the units for between 35-50M, but trust me convincing someone to buy an apartment for the price of a bungalow is one of the most challenging tasks i've ever encountered. @ Pablo: Your figure seems low for standard finishes, but maybe you can pull it off. I've partnered with one of my former employee's to build low cost homes in athi river and he manages the construction himself, we are getting a construction cost about 15,000 (this doesn't include any external works). But the quality is way inferior to what i call standard i.e wavy palster, use of second grade tiles, walls not following a straight path etc. There is no way i can give such quality to someone paying 16-18 M for an apartment. Thus if you want quality you have to pay for it, and my standard apartments have things like elevators, swimming pool, borehole, pitched stone external finishes, aluminium windows, Hwangsung wardrobes and kitchens. With all this its very easy for the price to climb to 32000 per sqm. Before you can be be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/29/2011 Posts: 257
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Vj wrote:@earthvoice: I don't think it would be fair for me to give out details about contractors on a public forum, however if you provide me with your e.mail i would be glad to share them with you.
Thank you. My email is kratts2001(at)yahoo(dot)com "All intelligent investing is value investing -- acquiring more than you are paying for. You must value the business in order to value the stock." - Charlie Munger.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/3/2011 Posts: 129 Location: Nairobi
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Vj wrote:@Siafu: the tender is opening on Thursday so will let you know of the outcome.
@earthvoice: I don't think it would be fair for me to give out details about contractors on a public forum, however if you provide me with your e.mail i would be glad to share them with you.
@Matatamingi: it should cost you between 20000-25000 for a stand alone bungalow, this cost is for a well finished bungalow i.e imported tiles, pitched stone finish etc.
@SAC Cohen: The luxury apartments are around 325sqm, 4 bedroom all ensuite, with german bathrooms (Hansgrohe) and kitchens (Nobilia). Spanish tiles in the common areas, a choice of floor finishes for the main apartment, decorative paints and so on. external amenities include: large swimming pool, party hall, 3 parking's per apartment, integrated security system, elevators, generator, borehole etc. The price seems high but i think its justified given the high quality of finishes e.g a single toilet set costs around 75,000. For this particular project i've sold all the units for between 35-50M, but trust me convincing someone to buy an apartment for the price of a bungalow is one of the most challenging tasks i've ever encountered.
@ Pablo: Your figure seems low for standard finishes, but maybe you can pull it off. I've partnered with one of my former employee's to build low cost homes in athi river and he manages the construction himself, we are getting a construction cost about 15,000 (this doesn't include any external works). But the quality is way inferior to what i call standard i.e wavy palster, use of second grade tiles, walls not following a straight path etc. There is no way i can give such quality to someone paying 16-18 M for an apartment. Thus if you want quality you have to pay for it, and my standard apartments have things like elevators, swimming pool, borehole, pitched stone external finishes, aluminium windows, Hwangsung wardrobes and kitchens. With all this its very easy for the price to climb to 32000 per sqm.
@Vj Very insighful. Have you considered (or undertaken) a gated community project, with the usual say 4 br ensuite (finishes indicated earlier) , with each unit on a 1/2 acre? If yes, were the costs the same as the luxury apts per sqm?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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@ VJ property developer, i need your email, then we can talk nostoppingthis@gmail.com
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/6/2010 Posts: 97 Location: nairobi, kenya
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@earthvoice and nostopingthis i've sent you e.mails. @SAC Cohen: I did town house projects a few years back, each house was on 1/8 of an acre, 5 bedrooms (3 en-suite), built up area was coming to around 375 sqm. The cost at that time was slightly higher than that of apartments (difference of between 500-750 per sqm). In gated communities it would be better to make each house on a 1/4 acre than 1/2 an acre, as the percentage profit is higher when using 1/4 of an acre. If we consider an area like Karen and say you get the 1/2 acre at 15 M, build a 400 sqm house at a cost of say 35,000 which translates to 14M(i've taken 35,000 as the cost as there is likely to be a lot of external works like boundary wall, driveways, landscaping and the finishes mus also be good). The cost at this point is 29M, now to add on consultant fees of 7.5%, leaves the cost at 31M . Currently houses in karen are going for around 40M, so you are likely to make a profit of around 8M (Removed 1M for miscellaneous expenses). Now if we consider 1/4 acre plots in the same area, the land would cost 7.5 M, build a 400 sqm house at a cost of say 32,000 which translates to 12.8M(The cost would fall as less external work needs to be done). The cost at this point is 20.3M, now to add on consultant fees of 7.5%, leaves the cost at 21M . You could sell that house for 30M still making a profit of around 8M (again removed 1M for miscellaneous expenses). Using 1/4 acre plots gives you the same return as 1/2 acre but and requires less investment. Before you can be be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/3/2011 Posts: 129 Location: Nairobi
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Vj wrote:@earthvoice and nostopingthis i've sent you e.mails.
@SAC Cohen: I did town house projects a few years back, each house was on 1/8 of an acre, 5 bedrooms (3 en-suite), built up area was coming to around 375 sqm. The cost at that time was slightly higher than that of apartments (difference of between 500-750 per sqm).
In gated communities it would be better to make each house on a 1/4 acre than 1/2 an acre, as the percentage profit is higher when using 1/4 of an acre. If we consider an area like Karen and say you get the 1/2 acre at 15 M, build a 400 sqm house at a cost of say 35,000 which translates to 14M(i've taken 35,000 as the cost as there is likely to be a lot of external works like boundary wall, driveways, landscaping and the finishes mus also be good). The cost at this point is 29M, now to add on consultant fees of 7.5%, leaves the cost at 31M . Currently houses in karen are going for around 40M, so you are likely to make a profit of around 8M (Removed 1M for miscellaneous expenses).
Now if we consider 1/4 acre plots in the same area, the land would cost 7.5 M, build a 400 sqm house at a cost of say 32,000 which translates to 12.8M(The cost would fall as less external work needs to be done). The cost at this point is 20.3M, now to add on consultant fees of 7.5%, leaves the cost at 21M . You could sell that house for 30M still making a profit of around 8M (again removed 1M for miscellaneous expenses).
Using 1/4 acre plots gives you the same return as 1/2 acre but and requires less investment. @Vj my email add is saxcohen@gmail.com. Would like to discuss further...Kindly inbox me. Thx
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/29/2011 Posts: 257
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Vj wrote:@earthvoice and nostopingthis i've sent you e.mails. thank you! saw your email. will respond... "All intelligent investing is value investing -- acquiring more than you are paying for. You must value the business in order to value the stock." - Charlie Munger.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/6/2010 Posts: 97 Location: nairobi, kenya
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@SAC Cohen: i've sent you an e.mail. Before you can be be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 3/19/2011 Posts: 19 Location: Nairobi
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@Vj, SAC Cohen, your discussions have been very insightful indeed, and Vj your openness is much appreciated :)
On another related topic that I'm starting elsewhere is the issue of JVs between a landowner and contractor/architect consortium, where the landowner is the developer and puts up the land to build 4 houses jointly with the consortium.
Kindly take a peek at that topic and let me know your thoughts if you're inclined...
Thanks again.
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