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Konza City featured on K24 all week this week
Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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jamplu wrote:eboomerang wrote:jamplu wrote: Konza is not starting with 200,000 ICT guyz. Ndemo used that figure as the number of people whom the governments projects will get jobs when the town is fully functional and that is in all sectors that will be part of Konza city.
What skills do you think are lacking in ICT sector because it comprises of so many areas? Are we also ignoring the fact that if you are providing a product in ICT most of them you have to collaborate with other professionals?
Fine, the city will not start with 200K people but will gradually grow to that number, in otherwords you will have empty buildings waiting to be occupied over a period of time, right? I have said this before, that the rate with which we are building infrastructure does not at all compare with the rate we are producing talent. I stand to be corrected; most of those people creating apps are self educated in application development, if not they are coming from abroad. How I wish we were saying that by 2030 we will have a single world standard university, notice the challenge is to have just one globally competitive university by 2030. Did you see that the govt is planning to close down KARI (Kenya Agricultural Research Institute)? This in a country whose economy is more than half supported by Agriculture, my friend we needs to get real and serious. -->What skills do you think are lacking in ICT sector because it comprises of so many areas?I think all manner of skills are lacking. Remember I'm looking at the national level, not 200 - 300 people sitting in a building developing apps. On the other hand, can you please enlighten me and name for me the skills Kenya has in ICT in the various areas? @eboomerang for starters konza will be phased the idea of empty building is neither here nor there! So what is your basis for your conclusion that there are not ICT skills in kenya if you need enlightening on the various ICT skill areas?? if you think all people do is develop apps then you got it all wrong! I don't think I'm a starter when it comes to this industry, I probably know more than you would expect. You can refer to the following thread and comment #7 if you want a reference: threadAlso watch the following video and see the kind premises where companies like Google, Paypal, Logitech all started off -a tiny squashed office: Video
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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eboomerang wrote:murchr wrote:madhaquer wrote:@murchr I agree ICT is not just about apps. But alot of decisions affecting ICT are not necessarily ICt related. Political, self interested decisions like Konza affect ict directly.
Can any Wazuan who understands the motivation behind Konza convince me why a company like Samsung or HP would set up shop in Konza and not in the several other global alternatives they have. ICT grows locally then the multinationals and the big boys follow, and that is the case for all innovative things, disruptive economics are marshaled by startups and the big players catch up through m&a. Look at ICT in India for example, did Microsoft and SAP preceed the Indian programmer or was the programmer the reason MSFT and SAP set up shop there ? The same applies to Silicon Valley, it's the environment that makes it possible to find the human capital required and thats why investments flow there.
The govt needs to focus on developing human capital within the ICT discipline and leave the rest to the private sector. Paternalistic government activity is a hotbed for corruption and socialist idealism that never materializes. We don't need that! let the govt facilitate, we will innovate.
May be you should ask yourself would Google, microsoft, IBM etc be in Kenya if they believe that the country doesnt have the required manpower? There is a difference between selling products and creating products. Most of those companies are here to sell their solutions but none of their products are designed and produced in Kenya. You have heard even from MJ himself that MPesa (what is usually mentioned as the epitome of Kenyan innovation) was not invented in Kenya, but it has been sold/licensed to Safaricom. MAYBE MPESA was not invented in Kenya but guess what, its not the only big thing that is in the country.......heard of Tangaza Money transfer? Why would Nokia be in I-hub and not busy selling phones, but paharps that is not big enough...what excited me most recently is the invention by Noris Technologies, they invented the first Kenyan Tablet. Use google and search on NTV a clip on the next big thing and listen to how innovative your Kenyan fellows are. Who cares even if they come here to sell their solutions, they employ kenyans and pay taxes just like the other multinationals When you think ICT don't limit yourself to apps or selling comps think about support "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Google only has kym's working in Kenya the others were fired recently since they were not up to the task. In fact, some google employees don't even consider google kenya to be part of Google. sample Quote:Kye Alan Russell · Top Commenter It's called delegation. Somebody in management at Google KE is obviously dodgy, and it's hardly the doing of Google USA (i.e. actual Google). The worst thing Google has done is hire dodgy people; somebody is definitely getting fired. Quote:Well I work at Google, and generally the FUD I hear around here is just that. This sounds truly awful though.
For what it's worth, I do believe this is a Kenya office problem. Individual offices have a ton of autonomy and a call center will do what they're told. From the central office perspective, (a) they really do believe what they preach, and (b) this is just retarded. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares about Kenyan business listings except for the top people in the Kenyan office trying to make a name for themselves. That is exactly what they think of our "talented" Kenyans and its worse, I just withheld the other comments. I keep on saying that until we get our heads out of our butts thinking that we are that good, then we shall never be the best. If the attitide of the ICT board is what murchr has to offer then I can categorically say without doubt that Konza as an ICT project will fail miserably. I will give you a plain example of what I mean by lack of capital. This is a real story and you can look for me to references if you wish. Company A is a Kenyan company. They try to get gov't contracts but they are told they are not qualified ( I remember Ndemo saying this in a public forum somewhere and shook my head). They then decide that they will die if they concentrate on getting Kenyan clients. So Company A decides to market their products and services outside the country. They hit it big. They decide in the spirit of helping Kenya to hire Kenyans. They can't find any that are qualified to do the work. After 6 months of training, hiring etc they have to accept that Kenya does not have the manpower to deal with the work load. Meanwhile, their workload doubles. So they are forced to hire Filipinos to do the work. This company with revenues of over $40,000 in 6 months has exactly 4 Kenyans working for it and 25 filipinos. All their money is offshore accounts and they live in an SQ (the part of SQ is by choice) They still can't get a loan from a Kenyan bank. They can't get a gov't project since they aren't qualified. They can't repatriate their cash to Kenya since simple things like online banking have been ignored for Konza. This is a true story Murchr. It is one of 4 I know about. Of course they don't come for your "ict meetups" coz they are busy doing something not dreaming. In the meantime, the ICT board is building a Konza city in 20 years, and they are giving out awards to companies that have no product or services. Just more dreams to offer. I didn't say it http://www.techmtaa.com/...and-content-generators/
I want anyone to tell me which product or service has won one of their awards that anyone on wazua knows about or can remember. These are just the facts on the ground. The ICT board has for sometime been living in dreamland and Konza is the ultimate dream. Konza will not solve the problem of a young entrepreneur not getting financing. It will not solve the problem of a young business getting gov't contracts. It will not solve the problem of having gov't data in the hands of American corporations. It will not solve the problem of Cronyism in gov't contracts. Konza however may end up making a few people extremely wealthy at the expense of young Kenyan entrepreneurs who end working as call girls and call boys in the BPO's created. But first they need to make Kencall profitable before they can make a whole 5000 acres profitable. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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alma wrote:Google only has kym's working in Kenya the others were fired recently since they were not up to the task. In fact, some google employees don't even consider google kenya to be part of Google. sample Quote:Kye Alan Russell · Top Commenter It's called delegation. Somebody in management at Google KE is obviously dodgy, and it's hardly the doing of Google USA (i.e. actual Google). The worst thing Google has done is hire dodgy people; somebody is definitely getting fired. Quote:Well I work at Google, and generally the FUD I hear around here is just that. This sounds truly awful though.
For what it's worth, I do believe this is a Kenya office problem. Individual offices have a ton of autonomy and a call center will do what they're told. From the central office perspective, (a) they really do believe what they preach, and (b) this is just retarded. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares about Kenyan business listings except for the top people in the Kenyan office trying to make a name for themselves. That is exactly what they think of our "talented" Kenyans and its worse, I just withheld the other comments. I keep on saying that until we get our heads out of our butts thinking that we are that good, then we shall never be the best. If the attitide of the ICT board is what murchr has to offer then I can categorically say without doubt that Konza as an ICT project will fail miserably. I will give you a plain example of what I mean by lack of capital. This is a real story and you can look for me to references if you wish. Company A is a Kenyan company. They try to get gov't contracts but they are told they are not qualified ( I remember Ndemo saying this in a public forum somewhere and shook my head). They then decide that they will die if they concentrate on getting Kenyan clients. So Company A decides to market their products and services outside the country. They hit it big. They decide in the spirit of helping Kenya to hire Kenyans. They can't find any that are qualified to do the work. After 6 months of training, hiring etc they have to accept that Kenya does not have the manpower to deal with the work load. Meanwhile, their workload doubles. So they are forced to hire Filipinos to do the work. This company with revenues of over $40,000 in 6 months has exactly 4 Kenyans working for it and 25 filipinos. All their money is offshore accounts and they live in an SQ (the part of SQ is by choice) They still can't get a loan from a Kenyan bank. They can't get a gov't project since they aren't qualified. They can't repatriate their cash to Kenya since simple things like online banking have been ignored for Konza. This is a true story Murchr. It is one of 4 I know about. Of course they don't come for your "ict meetups" coz they are busy doing something not dreaming. In the meantime, the ICT board is building a Konza city in 20 years, and they are giving out awards to companies that have no product or services. Just more dreams to offer. I didn't say it http://www.techmtaa.com/...and-content-generators/
I want anyone to tell me which product or service has won one of their awards that anyone on wazua knows about or can remember. These are just the facts on the ground. The ICT board has for sometime been living in dreamland and Konza is the ultimate dream. Konza will not solve the problem of a young entrepreneur not getting financing. It will not solve the problem of a young business getting gov't contracts. It will not solve the problem of having gov't data in the hands of American corporations. It will not solve the problem of Cronyism in gov't contracts. Konza however may end up making a few people extremely wealthy at the expense of young Kenyan entrepreneurs who end working as call girls and call boys in the BPO's created. But first they need to make Kencall profitable before they can make a whole 5000 acres profitable. The role of govt in business is to ensure that the stakeholders have a conducive environment by providing the required infrastructure and laws/regulations....not making companies profitable. And by the way, Kencall is doing well profitwise if you dint know. If your best reference is by one Alai who was kicked out of I-Hub then i have nothing more to tell u "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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I also have an interest in ICT products as a hobby. A few years ago, i discussed with wordbank about an IT solution that would make planning approvals more efficient. As i was working on my proposal thinking that Worldbank are more interested in helping the poor,financing e.t.c and cant actualize such a project, Worldbank called for ICT programmers to code such a solution and sold it to Nairobi City Council. I tried to complain but i didn't get any favorable response-only veiled legal threats. I thought of selling the idea to Uganda and Rwanda where i was also working on some construction project but was too late-Worldbank was already there. They were also in so many other countries in the world. At that point i realized that Kenya needs to develop serious ICT policy that seeks to ensure intellectual property is protected. My main livelihood is in architecture, not ICT-therefore life could continue as normal. Now that Worldbank had Nairobi City Council, i approached PS Ministry of Local Govt to see whether we can work with other smaller councils in Kenya. The portal was evaluated technically and was seen to be efficient by Local Govt technocrats. Unfortunately,the PS again asked me to sell the idea to the individual councils which to me is time-consuming. Anyone interested in working on this can contact me then we dust it from the shelves and push it to the market again. I fear for those whose livelihood depends on ICT in Kenya with such weak ICT intellectual property laws. On another note, the ICT Solution was based on a wordpress portal. Getting programmers for such basic tasks in Kenyan was not easy since most are more into Drupal e.t.c. Most Wordpress developers/coders work online from all over the world, coming up with marvelous plugins that can virtually perform any task. Educational courses that teach Kenyans to code the plugins can come in handy. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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a4architect.com wrote: I also have an interest in ICT products as a hobby. A few years ago, i discussed with wordbank about an IT solution that would make planning approvals more efficient.
As i was working on my proposal thinking that Worldbank are more interested in helping the poor,financing e.t.c and cant actualize such a project, Worldbank called for ICT programmers to code such a solution and sold it to Nairobi City Council.
I tried to complain but i didn't get any favorable response-only veiled legal threats.
I thought of selling the idea to Uganda and Rwanda where i was also working on some construction project but was too late-Worldbank was already there. They were also in so many other countries in the world. At that point i realized that Kenya needs to develop serious ICT policy that seeks to ensure intellectual property is protected.
My main livelihood is in architecture, not ICT-therefore life could continue as normal. Now that Worldbank had Nairobi City Council, i approached PS Ministry of Local Govt to see whether we can work with other smaller councils in Kenya. The portal was evaluated technically and was seen to be efficient by Local Govt technocrats. Unfortunately,the PS again asked me to sell the idea to the individual councils which to me is time-consuming.
Anyone interested in working on this can contact me then we dust it from the shelves and push it to the market again.
I fear for those whose livelihood depends on ICT in Kenya with such weak ICT intellectual property laws.
On another note, the ICT Solution was based on a wordpress portal. Getting programmers for such basic tasks in Kenyan was not easy since most are more into Drupal e.t.c.
Most Wordpress developers/coders work online from all over the world, coming up with marvelous plugins that can virtually perform any task. Educational courses that teach Kenyans to code the plugins can come in handy.
I agree with u on IP laws but there are copyright laws are good to protect your program. Many have been in your situation i understand its the same thing that happened to the MPESA guy. Have you checked if you can patent that? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@MURCHR.. I had not signed 'confidentiality agreements' with Worldbank. I could not imagine that Worldbank can engage in business or even comprehend code e.t.c. They looked like angels to me then with their 'help the poor' attitude. I even volunteered for free to help them with ideas on how to modernize Nairobi City council-this is where i gave out the ICT idea. I went to Kenya copyright board -they can only patent code, not general software idea. What i saw that could assist was a case law in the US that says if someone gives an idea to another whom they deem to be of high status e.g a priest,president e.t.c then the person of high status creates business with this idea, then some compensation can be done regardless of whether confidentiality agreement was signed or not. The solution has the possibility in being replicated in over 180 countries worldwide-of which World bank has offices and a network in. Already, Rwanda,Zambia, a few cities in Asia and Europe have started to use the idea. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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a4architect.com wrote:@MURCHR..
I had not signed 'confidentiality agreements' with Worldbank. I could not imagine that Worldbank can engage in business or even comprehend code e.t.c. They looked like angels to me then with their 'help the poor' attitude. I even volunteered for free to help them with ideas on how to modernize Nairobi City council-this is where i gave out the ICT idea.
I went to Kenya copyright board -they can only patent code, not general software idea.
What i saw that could assist was a case law in the US that says if someone gives an idea to another whom they deem to be of high status e.g a priest,president e.t.c then the person of high status creates business with this idea, then some compensation can be done regardless of whether confidentiality agreement was signed or not.
The solution has the possibility in being replicated in over 180 countries worldwide-of which World bank has offices and a network in.
Already, Rwanda,Zambia, a few cities in Asia and Europe have started to use the idea.
I think you need to see a lawyer. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@murchr..not any one wins a case against the Worldbank-i dont even think they can be sued due to diplomatic immunity but will need clarification to that. What the worldbank has is the money and not the ideas. What startups have is the idea and not the money. The easiest way to deal with them is to improve on the idea then resell to other sectors of the economy. This idea was to be consumed by Local Authorities. Unfortunately,most African Govts will listen to the Worldbank first before a small startup due to obvious reasons. What can work best is for me to team up with an ICT company then we work towards improving and remoulding the product to serve citizens directly as opposed to Governments since Governments clearly already have their 'owners'. ICT startups in developed countries are well-protected by laws as opossed to here in Kenya. Its not easy to come up with an ICT solution to be consumed solely by the Kenyan Govt due to hurdles. The best method is to reshape the product to serve the citizens e.g facebook,yahoo ,Google, Microsoft e.t.c As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@A4 when I tell guys that we have it all wrong, they tell me Google this Nokia that. What these guys don't tell you is that the biggest part of the value of these ICT companies is not the buildings they process or the number of Apple Ipods they sell, it is intellectual property they seek to control. These companies fight for every small idea, steal patents and steal more ideas. When they come here and give free nokias to developers here in a competition, they take that idea and create patents from them in another country. In other words, they want your mind. Not your houses. There is no lawyer in this country who can meander this. Especially since there are no laws in this country that tackle these issues. It is exactly the same case with all those freelancers that are working online. Ask them how they bring their money back home. They are already creating their own little Konzas but they have no system to bring the money back home. Having to depend on brokers who take 25% of their earnings. Lets talk ICT for a moment here. These are the issues affecting the Kenyan businessman in the ICT industry now. Not buildings. Can anyone who seems to be in the know explain to us how ecommerce is supposed to work in Kenya when even operating Paypal (the largest ecommerce tool) is impossible? If Gov't's work is not to build houses, but to facilitate, who have they facilitated? What are they doing to facilitate? Are there laws that make it easy for an entreprenuer to start an ICT company? Are there tax breaks? If you really must know, it takes all of 10 minutes to start a company in Silicon Valley, how long does it take in Kenya? These are the issues in the purvey of the ICT board, not buildings. And Alai was 100% right with that given the response he got from his post. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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