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tycho
#171 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 6:07:15 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Football is just a game, it doesn't need extraordinary people to play it. You develop your skill, you join a team, the team develops and uses strategies for winning, simulates games (friendlies) and plays with an intelligent control mechanism.

All kinds of professionals are called in to support the team. The team is now a machine working in the whole system's political machine. So much is at stake. Who's getting what? When?

It becomes a question of power. Getting power and clinging to it. Deals. FIFA without corrruption is impossible.

Kenyan flourish in soccer is a question of radical political change. The man on the street is made to believe government doesn't interfere in soccer but governments are heavily involved and the whole thing is messy.

If Kenya's political outlook can turn to be a stronger exporter of products and culture, and have greater moral power in terms of political ideology then we can see our teams shining.
kaka2za
#172 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 6:41:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
Kenya most successful coaches :Marshall Mulwa and Ghost Mulei

Ministers when stars did well: Paul Ngei,Francis Nyenze and Nyiva Mwendwa

Common denominator?
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
masukuma
#173 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 6:51:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
Kenya most successful coaches :Marshall Mulwa and Ghost Mulei

Ministers when stars did well: Paul Ngei,Francis Nyenze and Nyiva Mwendwa

Common denominator?

define "did well"? secondly correlation or causality?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#174 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 7:02:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Kenya most successful coaches :Marshall Mulwa and Ghost Mulei

Ministers when stars did well: Paul Ngei,Francis Nyenze and Nyiva Mwendwa

Common denominator?

define "did well"? secondly correlation or causality?


They won trophies.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Alba
#175 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 7:36:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
@masukuma has not said anything remotely intelligent nor sensible on this thread. He has taken refuge by attempting sarcasm. So I will leave him alone.

Folks this is not rocket science. I am about to state the obvious.

A person mentioned above that a team needs to play together for a long time in order to gain cohesion. A team that has trained together for only 3 days has no chance at being cohesive. How can Olunga and Oliech form a good attacking pair when they have never played together even in a friendly?

How can Mandela and Olum coordinate central defence if they have never played together even in a friendly? They cant. Thats why Kenya's defence looked porous.

No wonder Kenya never does well. We never prepare. Last year, senior players like Wanyama begged for friendlies and instead they were sent to Brazil on holiday. Meanwhile Lesotho was busy training. It came as no surprise when Lesotho eliminated Kenya.

Its as if we never learn.

But Kenya's problems go deeper. Kenya is one of the few countries where youth development does not exist. How often does Kenya even have a U20 team? Almost Never.

How many Kenyan clubs have youth development structures? As far as I can tell, only Gor Mahia has a U19 team. But even that is poorly funded. This is not a recipe for success.

With no youth development structures, Kenya are doomed.

Kenya has good individual players. The fact that a Kenyan like Oliech, Mariga and Wanyama and Mike Okoth can excel in Europe without ever having gone through formal youth development shows that Kenya has potential.

If Kenya can just get a measure of organization, the game can go places.

No Kenya is not hapless at football. Kenya has good players who are being let down by poor organization.

masukuma
#176 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 7:50:09 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Kenya most successful coaches :Marshall Mulwa and Ghost Mulei

Ministers when stars did well: Paul Ngei,Francis Nyenze and Nyiva Mwendwa

Common denominator?

define "did well"? secondly correlation or causality?


They won trophies.

what trophies? the mark of a good side is making a show at the worldcup (regardless of what Alba thinks about Malkia being chapwad at the worldcup). These tu regional cups are pointless - have you noticed that this region does not produce good soccer/football players? even baba yenu (UG/TZ) go no where! my point is "focus on strengths instead of weaknesses"... be good at one thing! be known for 1 thing! Do you know how many gold medals Portugal has won since it started participating in the Olympics in 1912? ...4!! ONLY 4!! we have a bad showing if we come back with 4 from one Olympic! Let's stop beating around the bush and accept that we stink at football and move on! But I suspect bwana maarifa will continue lecturing us on how good we are if we just... just...just... remove some people. Heck there is a time we were beaten by Somalia... SOMALIA!!! We are useless - let's focus on other things.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Alba
#177 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 8:05:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
masukuma wrote:

what trophies? the mark of a good side is making a show at the worldcup (regardless of what Alba thinks about Malkia being chapwad at the worldcup). These tu regional cups are pointless - have you noticed that this region does not produce good soccer/football players? even baba yenu (UG/TZ) go no where! my point is "focus on strengths instead of weaknesses"... be good at one thing! be known for 1 thing! Do you know how many gold medals Portugal has won since it started participating in the Olympics in 1912? ...4!! ONLY 4!! we have a bad showing if we come back with 4 from one Olympic! Let's stop beating around the bush and accept that we stink at football and move on! But I suspect bwana maarifa will continue lecturing us on how good we are if we just... just...just... remove some people. Heck there is a time we were beaten by Somalia... SOMALIA!!! We are useless - let's focus on other things.



This entire post is bogus
The idea that a country should only focus on what they are good at is silly.
What should Kenyans who like football do? Should they just give up.

I have said this many times and will say it again. Kenyans are not better at volleyball than Ugandans nor are we naturally better at rugby than Nigerians or Ghanaians.

How well a country does in a sport depends on how seriously they take it. Rugby is not taken seriously in Nigeria. If they start taking it seriously, they will give Kenya serious competition or even beat Kenya.

I believe it was our fellow forummer kaka2za who made the observation that when rugby was mostly played around Nairobi, then Nairobi based schools like Lenana, Saints and Patch dominated. And at one point, almost all national team players were from Lenana, Patch and Saints.

Now that upcountry schools like Katch and Yala are taking the sport seriously, they are beating Nairobi based schools.

Using masukuma's logic, one would have assumed that upcountry people are incapable of rugby.

The same applies to volleyball. Kenya wins at volleyball because other African countries do not take it seriously especially at grassroots level. Its not because Kenyans are naturally better.

This is a very basic concept and I can't help but wonder why people do not understand it.

Back in the 1970s, Zaire was the best African nation in football by far because President Mobutu took the sport very seriously. He funded the teams, sent them to Europe for training and so forth.

Just look at Japan for example. Football league was non-existent in Japan until the late 1980s. They had never even qualified for a world cup. Now they are among the worlds best. Same with the USA. They only started to take football seriously in the early 1990s.

If East Africans want to excel at football, they need a similar revolution. They need better organization. They need youth structures. Back in 1978, Uganda almost won Africa nations cup and their striker Philip Omondi was the top scorer at AFCON and was the most feared striker in Africa. Thats shows Uganda has potential and so does Kenya.

Now lets see if masukuma can refute my points intelligently without cowardly resorting to sarcasm and name calling.
masukuma
#178 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 8:18:30 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Alba wrote:
masukuma wrote:

what trophies? the mark of a good side is making a show at the worldcup (regardless of what Alba thinks about Malkia being chapwad at the worldcup). These tu regional cups are pointless - have you noticed that this region does not produce good soccer/football players? even baba yenu (UG/TZ) go no where! my point is "focus on strengths instead of weaknesses"... be good at one thing! be known for 1 thing! Do you know how many gold medals Portugal has won since it started participating in the Olympics in 1912? ...4!! ONLY 4!! we have a bad showing if we come back with 4 from one Olympic! Let's stop beating around the bush and accept that we stink at football and move on! But I suspect bwana maarifa will continue lecturing us on how good we are if we just... just...just... remove some people. Heck there is a time we were beaten by Somalia... SOMALIA!!! We are useless - let's focus on other things.



This entire post is bogus
The idea that a country should only focus on what they are good at is silly.
What should Kenyans who like football do? Should they just give up.

I have said this many times and will say it again. Kenyans are not better at volleyball than Ugandans nor are we naturally better at rugby than Nigerians or Ghanaians.

How well a country does in a sport depends on how seriously they take it. Rugby is not taken seriously in Nigeria. If they start taking it seriously, they will give Kenya serious competition or even beat Kenya.

I believe it was our fellow forummer kaka2za who made the observation that when rugby was mostly played around Nairobi, then Nairobi based schools like Lenana, Saints and Patch dominated. And at one point, almost all national team players were from Lenana, Patch and Saints.

Now that upcountry schools like Katch and Yala are taking the sport seriously, they are beating Nairobi based schools.

Using masukuma's logic, one would have assumed that upcountry people are incapable of rugby.

The same applies to volleyball. Kenya wins at volleyball because other African countries do not take it seriously especially at grassroots level. Its not because Kenyans are naturally better.

This is a very basic concept and I can't help but wonder why people do not understand it.

Back in the 1970s, Zaire was the best African nation in football by far because President Mobutu took the sport very seriously. He funded the teams, sent them to Europe for training and so forth.

Just look at Japan for example. Football league was non-existent in Japan until the late 1980s. They had never even qualified for a world cup. Now they are among the worlds best. Same with the USA. They only started to take football seriously in the early 1990s.

If East Africans want to excel at football, they need a similar revolution. They need better organization. They need youth structures. Back in 1978, Uganda almost won Africa nations cup and their striker Philip Omondi was the top scorer at AFCON and was the most feared striker in Africa. Thats shows Uganda has potential and so does Kenya.

Now lets see if masukuma can refute my points intelligently without cowardly resorting to sarcasm and name calling.

this is my point! we cannot do everything - let's pick our battles.. I am sure there are some great footballers or sprinters in India! I told you this before and I am telling you again - You tend to forget we are in a
1) poor
2) corrupt
3) 3rd world country
in a continent that has less GDP than India... pick your battles.... we don't exist to play sports. Ama Mtu aongee na Presi we give @Alba reins on all sports and we shall surely be great in all of them coz he knows something about all sports that the people involved in don't!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#179 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 8:34:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
@ Masukuma Sports are not just about winning. Only about ten nations have won the world cup but the game would surely die if other nations gave up.

Kenya is good at athletics but it's hard to get a crowd of 5,000 even during the national trials. On Sunday,I and over 20,000 Kenyans flocked the Nyayo stadium though we knew the odds were against us. We love the game,win or lose ,it remains the most popular sport.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Alba
#180 Posted : Tuesday, September 08, 2015 8:38:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
@masukuma

Sports is not a battle. This is not about picking battles.

Sports is a way to provide employment. A well organized sport can provide employement to hundreds of unemployed youth as footballers, referees, physios, journalists, coaches, managers etc.

1. If Kenya can organize its sports better then maybe some of those obsessed with the English premier league will switch allegiance to the Kenya premier league and provide employment opportunities to Kenyan youth.

A country with such a high youth unemployment, should use all opportunities to keep youth gainfully employed.


2. Secondly, sports can keep the youth busy and away from negative issues like drugs, crime and idleness and even terrorism.

If you can build football fields, maybe some of those Mombasa youth will be busy playing in local leagues and not be idle. Remember terrorists like makaburi capitalized on idle youth.

Sports can also ehance national unity and in Kenya we need this since we are tribally divided.

3. Sports can provide youth with educational opportunities. Numerous Kenyan basketball players have gone overseas on basketball scholarships. if that sport was well organized, dozens more would be going. This can help reduce youth unemployment.

4. Sports that are well organized can provide investment opportunities. Even today, some football agents are making money in Kenya. Club owners like Elly Kalekwa make money when they sell players. In fact recently when Sofapaka sold Razak Fiston to mamelodi sundowns, Kalekwa pocketed ksh 24 million !!!!!!!


Again this is not a battle. Sports when well organized is good for the country. Unfortunately the bureacrats in charge think that sports is just fan and games.
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