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The meaning of circumcision
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AlphDoti
#161 Posted : Friday, October 25, 2019 8:17:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
hardwood wrote:
It is very unfair that males are allowed to undergo circumcision so that they can become 'real men' in their societies while women are denied the chance to be circumcised and become 'respected women' in their societies as per their cultures. All individuals whether male or female should be be allowed to choose whether to have the cut or not. The katiba and mzungu should not demonize our cultures which we have practiced for ages even before mzungu landed on our shores

I agree with you.

NOTE: For those who will jump in here and post, I do not support mutilation. There is a difference between FGM and circumcision. Do not confuse.
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tycho
#162 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2019 8:04:40 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
It is very unfair that males are allowed to undergo circumcision so that they can become 'real men' in their societies while women are denied the chance to be circumcised and become 'respected women' in their societies as per their cultures. All individuals whether male or female should be be allowed to choose whether to have the cut or not. The katiba and mzungu should not demonize our cultures which we have practiced for ages even before mzungu landed on our shores

I agree with you.

NOTE: For those who will jump in here and post, I do not support mutilation. There is a difference between FGM and circumcision. Do not confuse.


'Circumcision' implies 'cutting around a circumference'. If the word is to be understood thus, then it is likely to be a mutilation of sorts especially for women. Because what would we cut around from a woman's anatomy?
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AlphDoti
#163 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2019 5:58:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
It is very unfair that males are allowed to undergo circumcision so that they can become 'real men' in their societies while women are denied the chance to be circumcised and become 'respected women' in their societies as per their cultures. All individuals whether male or female should be be allowed to choose whether to have the cut or not. The katiba and mzungu should not demonize our cultures which we have practiced for ages even before mzungu landed on our shores

I agree with you.

NOTE: For those who will jump in here and post, I do not support mutilation. There is a difference between FGM and circumcision. Do not confuse.

'Circumcision' implies 'cutting around a circumference'. If the word is to be understood thus, then it is likely to be a mutilation of sorts especially for women. Because what would we cut around from a woman's anatomy?

IN that case then everything from nail trimming to hair cut is mutilation. Not mentioning all these conveniently called cosmetic surgeries.
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hardwood
#164 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2019 7:52:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Then we should also ban "male genital mutilation" coz it involves mutilating infants and children under 18yrs. The boy child is as precious as the girl child.
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tycho
#165 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2019 8:41:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
hardwood wrote:
It is very unfair that males are allowed to undergo circumcision so that they can become 'real men' in their societies while women are denied the chance to be circumcised and become 'respected women' in their societies as per their cultures. All individuals whether male or female should be be allowed to choose whether to have the cut or not. The katiba and mzungu should not demonize our cultures which we have practiced for ages even before mzungu landed on our shores

I agree with you.

NOTE: For those who will jump in here and post, I do not support mutilation. There is a difference between FGM and circumcision. Do not confuse.

'Circumcision' implies 'cutting around a circumference'. If the word is to be understood thus, then it is likely to be a mutilation of sorts especially for women. Because what would we cut around from a woman's anatomy?

IN that case then everything from nail trimming to hair cut is mutilation. Not mentioning all these conveniently called cosmetic surgeries.


It doesn't follow @Alph. I said 'likely to be mutilation'. The conclusion you've made is hasty.
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tycho
#166 Posted : Monday, October 28, 2019 8:47:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
Then we should also ban "male genital mutilation" coz it involves mutilating infants and children under 18yrs. The boy child is as precious as the girl child.


I don't get how these two words are related. One is a surgical/medical term, and the other has legal tones. The conditions for one event being defined by both words may be there, but are the conditions fulfilled by default?
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AlphDoti
#167 Posted : Tuesday, October 29, 2019 12:43:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Then we should also ban "male genital mutilation" coz it involves mutilating infants and children under 18yrs. The boy child is as precious as the girl child.

I don't get how these two words are related. One is a surgical/medical term, and the other has legal tones. The conditions for one event being defined by both words may be there, but are the conditions fulfilled by default?

The legality is made by men (includes both gender). So how funny the same men pass law then point at the other issue as illegal! Don't you see your own contradictions?
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tycho
#168 Posted : Tuesday, October 29, 2019 1:55:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Then we should also ban "male genital mutilation" coz it involves mutilating infants and children under 18yrs. The boy child is as precious as the girl child.

I don't get how these two words are related. One is a surgical/medical term, and the other has legal tones. The conditions for one event being defined by both words may be there, but are the conditions fulfilled by default?

The legality is made by men (includes both gender). So how funny the same men pass law then point at the other issue as illegal! Don't you see your own contradictions?


There is no contradiction when a medical technical term is isolated from a legal term.

Circumcision may be a subset of the class called 'mutilation'. But there is no one to one relation.
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Josey
#169 Posted : Tuesday, October 29, 2019 7:34:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 236
Location: Nairobi
The severity of FGM depends on the community doing it;
1. For Somali, Turkana etc they get rid of labia majora plus the entire clitoris
2. Other communities like Kisii, Nandi etc they snip out the tip of the clitoris...
Either way it denies girlchild sexual pleasure otherwise known in medical terms as ORGASM..
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tycho
#170 Posted : Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:40:58 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Josey wrote:
The severity of FGM depends on the community doing it;
1. For Somali, Turkana etc they get rid of labia majora plus the entire clitoris
2. Other communities like Kisii, Nandi etc they snip out the tip of the clitoris...
Either way it denies girlchild sexual pleasure otherwise known in medical terms as ORGASM..


Many have escaped FGM but have challenges getting an orgasm. What happens to their 'rights'?

We may need more subtle justification for the cultural change being advocated for.
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