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Housing Finance: HFCK a diamond in the rough
obiero
#1661 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2017 4:42:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,211
Location: nairobi
muandiwambeu wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Another counter to delete from my list of investible firms until a thorough forensic audit is performed and appropriate NPLs taken. Perhaps it is time for a new broom?

@obiero, wewe baki ndani ya hii tumbili. I know you got them steel balls to see you through the bumpy ride ahead. Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Someone asked how much loss can you stomach, for this one, not any other cent on top. Full stop. Too bad that hii maneno inakaa ndio mistari hapa dani.

Definitely not buying more but the stake I hold is not money, loose change actually.. Won't lose and sleep over its collapse or lack thereof.. At least dividend is assured..

KQ ABP 4.26
Kausha
#1662 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:27:53 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.
obiero
#1663 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:54:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,211
Location: nairobi
Kausha wrote:
What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...74094-1162lnc/index.html

KQ ABP 4.26
VituVingiSana
#1664 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 12:53:11 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,342
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote]


Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#1665 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 4:50:11 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote]


Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen.


The fraud drama is really unnecessary in a suit for unfair dismissal.

The issue at trial should be whether the employee was dismissed through the right procedure. If not, he can be awarded up to 12 months pay as compensation.

This is very personal between Isika and the HF establishment.
Life is short. Live passionately.
obiero
#1666 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 5:56:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,211
Location: nairobi
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote]


Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen.


The fraud drama is really unnecessary in a suit for unfair dismissal.

The issue at trial should be whether the employee was dismissed through the right procedure. If not, he can be awarded up to 12 months pay as compensation.

This is very personal between Isika and the HF establishment.

@sparkly agreed.. only the mentally blind cannot see through Isika's smoke screen..
@vvs who is the chairman at Equity.. James Mwangi works for P M who by Britam proxy indirectly owns over 25% of HF.. Learn more about institutions and the owners

KQ ABP 4.26
VituVingiSana
#1667 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:59:52 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,342
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote]


Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen.


The fraud drama is really unnecessary in a suit for unfair dismissal.

The issue at trial should be whether the employee was dismissed through the right procedure. If not, he can be awarded up to 12 months pay as compensation.

This is very personal between Isika and the HF establishment.

@sparkly agreed.. only the mentally blind cannot see through Isika's smoke screen..
@vvs who is the chairman at Equity.. James Mwangi works for P M who by Britam proxy indirectly owns over 25% of HF.. Learn more about institutions and the owners


@Obiero - Stop being vague. Spell it out for us, like you do for KQ (with disastrous results), O Great Fountain of Knowledge.

@Sparkly - Where there is smoke there is (possibly) fire. For the sake of HF [& the industry] I hope all this blows over but I need to see the 4Q 2016 and the 1Q 2017 numbers before I remove HFCK from my list of non-investable firms. [BTW, most banks will have an "interesting" 1Q 2017 with a full quarter under Interest Caps and enhanced NPLs under the new governor]

Good luck!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#1668 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 9:36:19 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote]


Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen.


The fraud drama is really unnecessary in a suit for unfair dismissal.

The issue at trial should be whether the employee was dismissed through the right procedure. If not, he can be awarded up to 12 months pay as compensation.

This is very personal between Isika and the HF establishment.

@sparkly agreed.. only the mentally blind cannot see through Isika's smoke screen..
@vvs who is the chairman at Equity.. James Mwangi works for P M who by Britam proxy indirectly owns over 25% of HF.. Learn more about institutions and the owners


@Obiero - Stop being vague. Spell it out for us, like you do for KQ (with disastrous results), O Great Fountain of Knowledge.

@Sparkly - Where there is smoke there is (possibly) fire. For the sake of HF [& the industry] I hope all this blows over but I need to see the 4Q 2016 and the 1Q 2017 numbers before I remove HFCK from my list of non-investable firms. [BTW, most banks will have an "interesting" 1Q 2017 with a full quarter under Interest Caps and enhanced NPLs under the new governor]

Good luck!


@VVS I agree there is probably a fire but regardless of the management dirt dished out in the courtroom, the labour court cannot make a determination whether there is fraud or impropriety on the part of senior HF management. The court can only make a determination whether on a balance of probability, Isika's right to continue his employment with HF was infringed.
Life is short. Live passionately.
FRM2011
#1669 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 9:39:18 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote]


Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen.


The fraud drama is really unnecessary in a suit for unfair dismissal.

The issue at trial should be whether the employee was dismissed through the right procedure. If not, he can be awarded up to 12 months pay as compensation.

This is very personal between Isika and the HF establishment.


Thought there is that small matter of guys living in glass houses not throwing stones.

From what is coming out, this isika is one of those proud and difficult-to-work-with guys.

But no one has accused him of failing to protect shareholder interests. He seems to have discovered these shenanigans with the top mgt and that put them on a collision course.

To us as investors, the fraud drama is really the issue.

Let me repeat an analogy that was given here a while back by @maichblack. A truant kid runs away from school and finds the dad and the house girl in a compromising situation. When he reports what he saw at the dinner table with the mother around, the dad insists that the main issue at hand is why he had ran away from school.
sparkly
#1670 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:26:42 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
FRM2011 wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
[quote=Kausha]What will the majority shareholder do? Watch management cock up the investment or take matters by the scruff of the neck? The latter looks very plausible. Bet the year won't end without a corporate action hapo.

Bulk of the same alleged insider borrowers happen to just be part of the largest HF shareholders. P M, Benson and T K should be put under doctors watch.. Meanwhile, more evidence exists that Ireri could not be a person with propensity to digging his own grave http://www.businessdaily...4094-1162lnc/index.html[/quote]


Seeing all the drama on HFCK reminds me of one smart James Mwangi, who had Equity dump its stake in HFCK. They must have known what was likely to happen.


The fraud drama is really unnecessary in a suit for unfair dismissal.

The issue at trial should be whether the employee was dismissed through the right procedure. If not, he can be awarded up to 12 months pay as compensation.

This is very personal between Isika and the HF establishment.


Thought there is that small matter of guys living in glass houses not throwing stones.

From what is coming out, this isika is one of those proud and difficult-to-work-with guys.

But no one has accused him of failing to protect shareholder interests. He seems to have discovered these shenanigans with the top mgt and that put them on a collision course.

To us as investors, the fraud drama is really the issue.

Let me repeat an analogy that was given here a while back by @maichblack. A truant kid runs away from school and finds the dad and the house girl in a compromising situation. When he reports what he saw at the dinner table with the mother around, the dad insists that the main issue at hand is why he had ran away from school.


If a kid is being punished for running away from school, what is the relevance of the father's infidelity? The issue of infidelity belongs to the divorce court or the marriage counselor.

If he was really fired for blowing the whistle on management impropriety, I am sure shareholders like @Obiero will defend and reward him.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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