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Konza city Reality.
poundfoolish
#151 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:33:08 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
@jamplu some of us have learned that its prudent to give kudos and high fives AFTER a project is COMPLETE.

All I'm asking is that before you go building cities, can you please give me internet NOW?

So if there are no fire escapes at Sameer Park, you go use billions of my taxes to build a city which will be occupied by 500 coders from Ihub? Solve the basic problems first before going to create solutions out of patriotic slogans.

The problem in Kenya is there is no trained manpower, horrible infrastructure and horrible institutions. I don't care what you build if these are not solved first. You will finish building that thing and the next thing you know Kisia is governor and Waititu is Mayor.

Now if you can't take that criticism, then you have no right to be anywhere near public service but should be running your own private company somewhere. Or has that been the plan all along?



More of a narrow rant on generalities, rather than general outlook on specifics..

There is no trained manpower (so was S Korea and India and more so Silicon valley when it started, it was more of R & D and we all know R & D are long shorts into the dark. but when you hit something you are oil/gold field owner.

Horrible infrastructure: Isnt this what Konza is trying to achieve.. build infrastructure? or its only infrastructure when in the comfy of your house?
Can you track the growth of Internet in Kenya? from the days of dial up to present broadband

Horrible institutions? which ones.. if the Min of Infor and Comm.. if Vision2030 wasn't doing things like Konza,Lamu and Thika highway.. then it would to me be a horrible institution.

The IT industry is moving, our institutions are catching up.. those in government lagging behind will either sink or learn to swim.

so are you suggesting we wait and wait..and wait?

wait and see who the new governor of Nairobi or Machakos will be..?
mkeiy
#152 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:59:57 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:
alma wrote:
@jamplu some of us have learned that its prudent to give kudos and high fives AFTER a project is COMPLETE.

All I'm asking is that before you go building cities, can you please give me internet NOW?

So if there are no fire escapes at Sameer Park, you go use billions of my taxes to build a city which will be occupied by 500 coders from Ihub? Solve the basic problems first before going to create solutions out of patriotic slogans.

The problem in Kenya is there is no trained manpower, horrible infrastructure and horrible institutions. I don't care what you build if these are not solved first. You will finish building that thing and the next thing you know Kisia is governor and Waititu is Mayor.

Now if you can't take that criticism, then you have no right to be anywhere near public service but should be running your own private company somewhere. Or has that been the plan all along?



More of a narrow rant on generalities, rather than general outlook on specifics..

There is no trained manpower (so was S Korea and India and more so Silicon valley when it started, it was more of R & D and we all know R & D are long shorts into the dark. but when you hit something you are oil/gold field owner.

Horrible infrastructure: Isnt this what Konza is trying to achieve.. build infrastructure? or its only infrastructure when in the comfy of your house?
Can you track the growth of Internet in Kenya? from the days of dial up to present broadband

Horrible institutions? which ones.. if the Min of Infor and Comm.. if Vision2030 wasn't doing things like Konza,Lamu and Thika highway.. then it would to me be a horrible institution.

The IT industry is moving, our institutions are catching up.. those in government lagging behind will either sink or learn to swim.

so are you suggesting we wait and wait..and wait?

wait and see who the new governor of Nairobi or Machakos will be..?


@ poundfoolish, say it again, a lil' louder. Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause .

It is the so called "PRUDENT" who remind of this story.


Some two guys are walking down a foot path in some meadow. In front of them, they see white stuff, from a far. They look like sheep,they look like birds. Guy A says those are sheep,guy B disagree and says "can't you see are birds,are you blind?" On drawing closer,the white stuff flew. Guy A says "look, i told you". At which guy B retorts "even if they fly, they are sheep".

"PRUDENT", theirs make good stories,sometimes.
a4architect.com
#153 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 1:21:14 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
To steer the discussions in a manner that can assist Kenya ICT Board to realise the Konza dream for all of us, let us try to answer these 3 questions..


1. What is the best infrastruture type that the ICT BOard can outlay which will attract investors?
Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve this infrastructure development?

2. What is the budget that ICT Board is working with from the tax payer?

Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve efficient budgetary and financial planning?

3. How much tax payer money is the ICT Board currently spending to pay Worldbank/IFC Financial advisory services and overseas architects and master planners?


Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve the best financial advisory and architecture/master planning from local consultants?
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
selah
#154 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 1:33:17 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya

Looking at the estimated cost of constructing Konza city and that of Lamu port they are similar:Sh2Trillion.

In the case of Lamu port the cost is meant to be shared between 3 states...so thats doable..

In the case of Konza we are telling investors to believe on a dream that The KSh will be stabilised,The energy cost will come down and our manpower will cost less than in Asia because the country knows how to control Inflation and access to credit is not only easy but also cheap since the government will guarantee most of it...Well Those are high stakes for any investor.

The problem with us is not the lack of Dreams but the lack of realism and workable strategies.

When the kibaki govt embarked on the construction of Muthurua market the plan was to make a market that will be modern, accommodating a Matatu terminus that would serve the whole of Nairobi.Visit the market today....the chaos,mess and disorganisation is baffling.

The same goes for kariobangi light industries,industrial area,Thika and other Govt projects that can rake in billions if the plans are executed in an efficient manner.

Konza city is a brilliant Idea but the question the govt should be asking itself is does the country have the capacity to compete with the world given the resources we have.

The other day a student of JKUAT was employed by twitter it became a national news how many indians,chinnese or Asians work for twitter as engineers.

The reason India,china and the other Asian countries are now leading in technology is because of embracing policies that tune up the citizenry into a collective vision which ensures that from school the curriculum is geared toward a certain goal.The paradigm shift is gradual and with time a country emerges as a top producer of something.

IF you were to ask me what is our education policy I wont tell you,even the Vision 2030 is so ambiguous that when you look at the three pillars and the reality on the ground you are more confused about the future.







'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
jamplu
#155 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:41:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
alma wrote:
@jamplu some of us have learned that its prudent to give kudos and high fives AFTER a project is COMPLETE.

All I'm asking is that before you go building cities, can you please give me internet NOW?

So if there are no fire escapes at Sameer Park, you go use billions of my taxes to build a city which will be occupied by 500 coders from Ihub? Solve the basic problems first before going to create solutions out of patriotic slogans.

The problem in Kenya is there is no trained manpower, horrible infrastructure and horrible institutions. I don't care what you build if these are not solved first. You will finish building that thing and the next thing you know Kisia is governor and Waititu is Mayor.

Now if you can't take that criticism, then you have no right to be anywhere near public service but should be running your own private company somewhere. Or has that been the plan all along?



Internet? Seriously? Ask safaricom why they charge you higher prices for the extra bandwidth you need if the cable was cut is it the government who cut it? Let investors do the last mile for the cables or you expect the government to still do that!!
Meralli can keep his sameer park let those 500 coders have their city if you not interested in it fiine we can invite those indians who makes you feel like puking probably they'll keep you faaaar away.
And what do you mean there is no manpower? There is plenty of IT manpower if thats what you talking about. I've said it in this thread and i'll say it again. The IT guys in kenya don't have to invent a Google or iPad for us to say we have the manpower people are doing other things go to one of their exhibitions at least they are building meaningful stuff Nokia are acknowledging that Microsoft and Twitter and Google are noticing what we are doing. It me and you who vote in those leaders you talking about so don't complain so much about them. Infrastructure we getting there even if it will take us the next 10 years but we will get there.
alma
#156 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:47:47 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
eishh. Nasi tumesema we meet in Konza in 2032?
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#157 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 4:07:23 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
Here is a good read on why these incomplete and contradictory Wazua arguments will go a long way to assist Kenya ICT Board deliver for us a new city.

The article is 67 years old so it has proved itself to be true.


http://www.econlib.org/l...ary/Essays/hykKnw1.html


+++++++The peculiar character of the problem of a rational economic order is determined precisely by the fact that the knowledge of the circumstances of which we must make use never exists in concentrated or integrated form but solely as the dispersed bits of incomplete and frequently contradictory knowledge which all the separate individuals possess. The economic problem of society is thus not merely a problem of how to allocate "given" resources—if "given" is taken to mean given to a single mind which deliberately solves the problem set by these "data." It is rather a problem of how to secure the best use of resources known to any of the members of society, for ends whose relative importance only these individuals know. Or, to put it briefly, it is a problem of the utilization of knowledge which is not given to anyone in its totality.+++++
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#158 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 5:58:16 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
This is a very interesting book to read especially for those of us privileged to work in the Public sector and in charge of making decisions on behalf of the people of Kenya e.g the Konza City project.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._of_an_Economic_Hit_Man


According to his book, Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run. In this capacity Perkins recounts his meetings with some prominent individuals, including Graham Greene and Omar Torrijos. Perkins describes the role of an EHM as follows:
Economic hit men (EHMs) are highly-paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and other foreign "aid" organizations into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet's natural resources. Their tools included fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken on new and terrifying dimensions during this time of globalization.


http://www.guardian.co.u...an/28/biography.politics
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#159 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 6:29:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
To steer the discussions in a manner that can assist Kenya ICT Board to realise the Konza dream for all of us, let us try to answer these 3 questions..


1. What is the best infrastruture type that the ICT BOard can outlay which will attract investors?
Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve this infrastructure development?

2. What is the budget that ICT Board is working with from the tax payer?

Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve efficient budgetary and financial planning?

3. How much tax payer money is the ICT Board currently spending to pay Worldbank/IFC Financial advisory services and overseas architects and master planners?


Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve the best financial advisory and architecture/master planning from local consultants?



I thot you gave the figures sometimes back. Anyway ICT board usually has stakeholder meetings you may wish to attend one of these days
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Mo
#160 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 6:48:41 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/21/2007
Posts: 326
Listening to both sides of this debate you understand that there are serious challeneges facing this project; to be or not to be? remains the big question.
my 2 cents view is that let's dream big and as we do so let's also try to fix the basics? africa has not been poor for lack of ideas or resources rather poor leadership; but we cannot runt forever and need to make do with what we have.
let's embrace the project, encourage gok to consult both from within and without and continue to pile pressure for general infrastructural growth. we may not hit v2030 in entiretity but even half a loaf is better than none.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
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